Gap Between P5 and G5

pastorgrant · October 5, 2014

Not making excuses for a poor performance at all. We played poorly and got our butts handed to us.

I've just been pondering the question of just how much gap there is between the P5 and G5. CUSA is almost perfect against G5 teams and have laid an egg against P5, even though we have had some weak teams on the schedule.

Last year Rice had ten wins and won CUSA and then got embarrassed against a middle of the pack, unranked, 6 win SEC team. Boise got spanked by 6 win Oregon State which was on a 5 or 6 game losing streak in their bowl. Houston got killed by Vandy. Only G5 victory over a P5 in a bowl was Louisville which was only on the outside for a blink (Big East to ACC). Edit: CMJ pointed out that AAC actually had an auto bid last year so Louisville's win doesn't count. I forgot UCF over Baylor, but that was an AQ team too. There were ZERO non-AQ wins over AQ teams in last year's bowl games.

The wins are few and far between.

How much difference is there, really?

Edited October 5, 2014 by pastorgrant

H-towngreen · October 5, 2014

A lot. People can poo poo it all day but there is a big gap. People say "oh, the Big 10 is so bad this year" we'll guess what....that bad is typically way better than what we play.

Ben Gooding · October 5, 2014

The gap is large and due to the P5's own doing it's only going to grow. In 3-5 years from now the hoarding or recruits at P5's will be at an all time high. God forbid they raise their scholarship allotment. If so, any G5 beating any P5 will be very rare.

I really, really wish the NCAA would implement what the preemie league does in soccer. It would be monumental for the G5 community...and this UK interception for a return for td just really happened. Wow.

Got5onIt · October 5, 2014

The reality is there is a gap and it's just going to get bigger sooner than later...

Mean Green 93-98 · October 5, 2014

Getting the diamonds in the rough is tougher than ever. With so many resources available to coaches today, every coaching staff knows almost as much as possibly could be known about every viable recruit. That's obviously not the only reason for the gap, but it's a significant one.

CMJ · October 5, 2014

Not making excuses for a poor performance at all. We played poorly and got our butts handed to us.
I've just been pondering the question of just how much gap there is between the P5 and G5. CUSA is almost perfect against G5 teams and have laid an egg against P5, even though we have had some weak teams on the schedule.
Last year Rice had ten wins and won CUSA and then got embarrassed against a middle of the pack, unranked, 6 win SEC team. Boise got spanked by 6 win Oregon State which was on a 5 or 6 game losing streak in their bowl. Houston got killed by Vandy. Only G5 victory over a P5 in a bowl was Louisville which was only on the outside for a blink (Big East to ACC).
The wins are few and far between.
How much difference is there, really?

Louisville wasn't G5 last year...it was the AAC/old Big East's last year as one of the auto conferences.

Edited October 5, 2014 by CMJ

Harry · October 5, 2014

Yes I think there is. Basically Wilson was just starting when we first played them. He now has had 2 years to load up high level recruits to the Big 10 conference. It was clearly evident today on the offensive and defensive lines.

It is not to say that a g5 can put together a good team, it's just the odds are against you.

Andrew · October 5, 2014

It's time the NCAA fixes this issue before college football becomes garbage to watch. I already dislike the Alabama's and LSU's of the world. I cannot stand watching them play much less win. There will be no more underdogs if there is a split in the league. Everyone should have a relatively equal chance and conferences should be based on geographic location (mostly). Heston, SMU, rice, UTSA, UNT should all be in the same conference with he likes of TCU and Baylor. Why West Virginia is in a confrence with UT or SMU is in a confrence with UCONN is laughable.

PlanoGreen · October 5, 2014

Not making excuses for a poor performance at all. We played poorly and got our butts handed to us.
I've just been pondering the question of just how much gap there is between the P5 and G5. CUSA is almost perfect against G5 teams and have laid an egg against P5, even though we have had some weak teams on the schedule.
Last year Rice had ten wins and won CUSA and then got embarrassed against a middle of the pack, unranked, 6 win SEC team. Boise got spanked by 6 win Oregon State which was on a 5 or 6 game losing streak in their bowl. Houston got killed by Vandy. Only G5 victory over a P5 in a bowl was Louisville which was only on the outside for a blink (Big East to ACC).
The wins are few and far between.
How much difference is there, really?

AAC was technically not a G5 last year, however you forgot ucf's big win over Baylor

pastorgrant · October 5, 2014

AAC was technically not a G5 last year, however you forgot ucf's big win over Baylor

True, but they were AQ too.

untjim1995 · October 6, 2014

It's time the NCAA fixes this issue before college football becomes garbage to watch. I already dislike the Alabama's and LSU's of the world. I cannot stand watching them play much less win. There will be no more underdogs if there is a split in the league. Everyone should have a relatively equal chance and conferences should be based on geographic location (mostly). Heston, SMU, rice, UTSA, UNT should all be in the same conference with he likes of TCU and Baylor. Why West Virginia is in a confrence with UT or SMU is in a confrence with UCONN is laughable.

The NCAA isn't going to "fix" anything that they don't deem as broken. They rake in billions from the TV contract and media broadcasts of their P5 schools. ESPN, CBS, and Fox have no interest at all in geography--they have interest in viewership. The only people who complain about geography in college sports are those who are shunned by their in-state and regional colleges.

What you are right about, however, is that the G5 schools are going to have to figure something out in the very near future about conference affiliation and expenses. The P5s will never go short on resources--between football and basketball, they have budgets that are always going to dwarf those of us in the G5. When they finally take their ball and run off, UH, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa are all finally going to realize what Rice, UNT, La Tech, and UTSA already know--that the easiest way to make a buck is to keep your team as close to town as possible. Travel costs and recognizable opponents are going to keep you afloat.

PlanoGreen · October 6, 2014

There will probably never be a complete split between G5 and p5, there will always have to be some pathway for the G5 to the championship and access bowls. The ncaa is on thin ice regarding anti-trust laws, they can't do much more

FirefightnRick · October 6, 2014

FCS North Dakota State, playing with 15/20 fewer ships has done it what, 6 years in a row now? And all on the road?

Rick

Green Otaku · October 6, 2014

The gap is large and due to the P5's own doing it's only going to grow. In 3-5 years from now the hoarding or recruits at P5's will be at an all time high. God forbid they raise their scholarship allotment. If so, any G5 beating any P5 will be very rare.
I really, really wish the NCAA would implement what the preemie league does in soccer. It would be monumental for the G5 community...and this UK interception for a return for td just really happened. Wow.

I've seen people say this before, and it would never happen. You think the Iowa states and Purdues of the P5 are going to approve of the chance to be moved down and lose all that $$$$? Will never happen.

On a side not what's with American's obsession of the Premier league? There are other top Euro leagues, I find it kind of strange that they all gravitate towards it.

meangreendork · October 6, 2014

It's time the NCAA fixes this issue before college football becomes garbage to watch. I already dislike the Alabama's and LSU's of the world. I cannot stand watching them play much less win. There will be no more underdogs if there is a split in the league. Everyone should have a relatively equal chance and conferences should be based on geographic location (mostly). Heston, SMU, rice, UTSA, UNT should all be in the same conference with he likes of TCU and Baylor. Why West Virginia is in a confrence with UT or SMU is in a confrence with UCONN is laughable.

It's sort of there already. When a P5 and a G5 school meet up, the outcome is almost always decided years before the kickoff. The P5 school already has built-in cred with its conference affiliation, probably has a bigger budget, and is likely one of the dominant names in its own state. I laugh when people say "the G5 schools just don't have what it takes" because I immediately think, "yeah, because the P5 schools are taking it away and the NCAA is helping them."

untjim1995 · October 7, 2014

There will probably never be a complete split between G5 and p5, there will always have to be some pathway for the G5 to the championship and access bowls. The ncaa is on thin ice regarding anti-trust laws, they can't do much more

Nah, those anti-trust laws aren't gonna get applied to them. Their buddies in the legislatures in DC, as well as the media that pays to cover them, will never allow the P5 schools to get hit with any anti-trust lawsuit. Don't fool yourself--its the USFL versus the NFL.

The split will happen--its just a matter of its within the NCAA or not. Now, I can see where they will allow a G5 team each year to play in one of the big bowls every year, like they do now. But I foresee the P5 never playing G5 schools in OOC play in the very near future. There's just too many voices out there that believe that is needed with this new playoff system. When your conference schedule isn't that great, still playing a weak OOC is going to catch up to you (see Baylor this year). They are going to circle the wagons on this very soon.

To me, as a UNT fan, I really don't care anymore. We aren't ever going to be included in a P5 conference, so we need to make the G5 situation the best it can be. It doesn't have to be SLC 2.0 again, since you will be playing schools in the state and region that people care about and have heard of, unlike the embarrassment of the 1-aa fiasco. We have a great stadium and we finally play in a conference that is waayyy better than anything we have been assocaited with since the early 70s. Even if we are just going to bve relegated to a G5 level, getting to play in a conference with even more other regional schools like SMU, UH, and Tulsa would be even better for us. DO I wish we got a Big XII invite and got to play those schools currently in that league? Of course--who wouldn't. But watching UH gets locked out of the P5 over these years makes it even more clear that we all are just stuck permanently below them. And I truly believe that Baylor and TCU will join all of us in the future when the other leagues pick apart the Big XII for their future expansion. Again, for us, that will be even better than we have ever had it. It would suck for the old SWC teams that won't get to stay in the P5 or couldn't get moved up there, but that's just sweet justice to me, since none of those bastards would ever even consider "lowering" themselves to partner with us over the decades past.

GrandGreen · October 7, 2014

The number one variable in college sports is dollars spent. The P5 just by virtue of being in a P5 conference have a massive budget advantage, and that will always be there no matter if they are a perennial top 10 school or a bottom dweller. The G5 can win rare games against them usually because of an emotional edge and perhaps a great coach. Of course, the great coach won't be in the G5 for long.

The only other advantage although the P5 has just about their pick of high school players is that some great players will develop in the G5. Not enough, to come close to offsetting the big recruiting advantage the P5 has, but enough to occasionally challenge on game day.

The way to completely destroy the G5, is to change transfer rules were the power 5 can more easier pick up outstanding players from the lower tier conferences. If the pay for play thing gets way out of balance between the P5 and G5 than it may not even take a transfer rule change. The transferring player may be more than willing to set out a year to play and get paid in the P5, particular if they are paid during the year of non-eligibility.

The G5 may suffer a complete collapse over time, but the lower end P5 will quickly find out that they are going to be also eliminated soon enough.

Ben Gooding · October 8, 2014

At the rate we are going I wouldn't be surprised to see 32 teams, most blue bloods, playing major D1 football. It will eventually be geographically set up to pair with NFL teams and will turn themselves into a minor league. Maybe 64 teams with 2 college teams assigned to each NFL team. So basically the P5 will turn into a geographically dictated minor league system, of course so they can eventually get a piece of that NFL money and vice versa.