Inside Higher Ed: "Empty Seats, Fewer Donors Later?"

[untjim1995]

Why does it have to be the #1 priority? It's still a big deal. You're talking about THOUSANDS of dollars off of your tuition.

The plan is awesome, no questions about it, considering the way tuition rates have skyrocketed over the last few decades. But, again, if all you ever do is market toward "value", you get folks who are looking for value. We have a great education experience to offer for college kids because of our proximity to some of the best professors who live in the entire DFW Metroplex. Yet you can still have a unique college-town experience here, too. But when your entire marketing strategy is built around "value", its the Wal-mart approach. You get those people who only want stuff for as cheap as possible. Look, we buy stuff at Wal-Mart because it is perfect for our budget, so we fight through the crowded store to buy stuff we could get at Kroger or Tom Thumb for a cheaper price--but I have no love for Wal-Mart. Its just the place we go to buy groceries because its cheap. When I go into a Market Street or another top end grocery store, I am blown away at all they offer to the consumer, although its much more expensive. In a lot of ways, this is how I feel when I go to another college town for a visit--like I have gone into some new universe that the town and the university are completely centered on the college itself and their teams. They aren't selling tuition or tickets for as low as they can--they are offering the experience for the true price. They know that to get a student who has to pay more to get into that school will get a degree that will make them connected back to the school, usually for life. They turn into donors and season-ticket holders. Here at UNT, I actually believe we will look a lot more like our fellow universities in college towns in about 20 years. The students and alums of the last few years seem to be way more engaged into UNT than the previous 30 years of students and alumni--that won't pay dividends untill they get into their 40s and 50s, but that shold come back to help the entire university. But we still have a huge amount of those people who won't ever visit Denton again for anything--because they got the best "value" they could get. They lived at home and went to community college for a few years, then finished up at UNT while living at home, never feeling any appreciation for being Mean Green. Again, if that is who you advertise to, almost constantly, that is who you are going to get the majority of the time. We may be close to DFW and its suburbs, but we aren't UH, UTEP, or UTSA--we offer a true college experience. That's what we need to promote-- and that includes the experience of going to a football game on campus.

[MeanGreenTexan]

The plan is awesome, no questions about it, considering the way tuition rates have skyrocketed over the last few decades. But, again, if all you ever do is market toward "value", you get folks who are looking for value. We have a great education experience to offer for college kids because of our proximity to some of the best professors who live in the entire DFW Metroplex. Yet you can still have a unique college-town experience here, too. But when your entire marketing strategy is built around "value", its the Wal-mart approach. You get those people who only want stuff for as cheap as possible. Look, we buy stuff at Wal-Mart because it is perfect for our budget, so we fight through the crowded store to buy stuff we could get at Kroger or Tom Thumb for a cheaper price--but I have no love for Wal-Mart. Its just the place we go to buy groceries because its cheap. When I go into a Market Street or another top end grocery store, I am blown away at all they offer to the consumer, although its much more expensive. In a lot of ways, this is how I feel when I go to another college town for a visit--like I have gone into some new universe that the town and the university are completely centered on the college itself and their teams. They aren't selling tuition or tickets for as low as they can--they are offering the experience for the true price. They know that to get a student who has to pay more to get into that school will get a degree that will make them connected back to the school, usually for life. They turn into donors and season-ticket holders. Here at UNT, I actually believe we will look a lot more like our fellow universities in college towns in about 20 years. The students and alums of the last few years seem to be way more engaged into UNT than the previous 30 years of students and alumni--that won't pay dividends untill they get into their 40s and 50s, but that shold come back to help the entire university. But we still have a huge amount of those people who won't ever visit Denton again for anything--because they got the best "value" they could get. They lived at home and went to community college for a few years, then finished up at UNT while living at home, never feeling any appreciation for being Mean Green. Again, if that is who you advertise to, almost constantly, that is who you are going to get the majority of the time. We may be close to DFW and its suburbs, but we aren't UH, UTEP, or UTSA--we offer a true college experience. That's what we need to promote-- and that includes the experience of going to a football game on campus.

When I watch DVR'd games, I see UNT commercials. None of them mention "value" or price. Actually, they just sound like an explosion of key words, kinda overwhelming.

Not everything the University does is geared towards the value. But the Eagle Express plan is new, so it needs to be introduced to prospective students. I'm sure there are alot of different ways they could have chosen to do this... apparently the billboard in question is a great way since it seems everyone has seen it.

[Green Mean]

The plan is awesome, no questions about it, considering the way tuition rates have skyrocketed over the last few decades. But, again, if all you ever do is market toward "value", you get folks who are looking for value. We have a great education experience to offer for college kids because of our proximity to some of the best professors who live in the entire DFW Metroplex. Yet you can still have a unique college-town experience here, too. But when your entire marketing strategy is built around "value", its the Wal-mart approach. You get those people who only want stuff for as cheap as possible. Look, we buy stuff at Wal-Mart because it is perfect for our budget, so we fight through the crowded store to buy stuff we could get at Kroger or Tom Thumb for a cheaper price--but I have no love for Wal-Mart. Its just the place we go to buy groceries because its cheap. When I go into a Market Street or another top end grocery store, I am blown away at all they offer to the consumer, although its much more expensive. In a lot of ways, this is how I feel when I go to another college town for a visit--like I have gone into some new universe that the town and the university are completely centered on the college itself and their teams. They aren't selling tuition or tickets for as low as they can--they are offering the experience for the true price. They know that to get a student who has to pay more to get into that school will get a degree that will make them connected back to the school, usually for life. They turn into donors and season-ticket holders. Here at UNT, I actually believe we will look a lot more like our fellow universities in college towns in about 20 years. The students and alums of the last few years seem to be way more engaged into UNT than the previous 30 years of students and alumni--that won't pay dividends untill they get into their 40s and 50s, but that shold come back to help the entire university. But we still have a huge amount of those people who won't ever visit Denton again for anything--because they got the best "value" they could get. They lived at home and went to community college for a few years, then finished up at UNT while living at home, never feeling any appreciation for being Mean Green. Again, if that is who you advertise to, almost constantly, that is who you are going to get the majority of the time. We may be close to DFW and its suburbs, but we aren't UH, UTEP, or UTSA--we offer a true college experience. That's what we need to promote-- and that includes the experience of going to a football game on campus.

I know you're not saying everyone but I was one of those that lived at home, went to Quad C for a few years and transferred to NT and I've been a die hard ever since I stepped foot on campus. That said I think people here are over thinking the marketing campaign. Just because students may be looking for value in education doesn't mean they won't have interest in their university and come back when they've graduated. We constantly hear that the university administrations of past have failed for decades in connecting alumni and getting them to come back, donate, attend athletic events etc. There was not marketing campaign about value back then from what I recall tho I may be wrong here.

Now we have this marketing campaign that is an EXCELLENT option for students especially with the rising costs for college and people have that to blame for not getting connected alumni to be involved, attend athletic events etc. If students decide to come here, the value they get in tuition they get shouldn't hinder their school pride. I just think that is a big excuse and we know the REAL cure fixing some of our apathy is just keep winning and have prioritize athletics greatly. One season winning won't cure our problems...we need constant success of winning seasons, bowl games, back to success in basketball once Benny is gone for things to truly change because shifting culture and attitude takes.

While we know the university can probably still do better, NT has improved their alumni relations through the gateway center, alumni association, young alumni events, Apogee, success in basketball during the JJ era etc. All the tools are there for success. We just need to continue to capitalize on what we have and get better.

[hickoryhouse]

Thanks to coach Mac and RV getting more involved in the freshman orientation process I think that we are starting to promote that university atmosphere very well, especially when compared to previous years. When I got here in 2000 it was other schools t-shirt fans all over the place and general apathy abounded throughout the campus. As I went through my time on campus, a cringe worthy length of 6.5 years, I saw that begin to change and by the time i left there was plenty of green on campus, though not nearly enough.

Getting to where we want to be is a long journey for this school, we have had setbacks galore and watcher other schools "pas us by" more often than we would like to admit. The Green Light to greatness campaign I enjoyed and the Eagle Express program has its merits especially when considering the skyrocketing cost of tuition all over the country. We need to find a way to promote the fact that we are providing such innovative programs to assist in tuition, but when the billboards you see all over the place are for football teams and our "Thousands Less" campaign is mixed in it makes us look chinsy and commuter school-ish. There has to be a better way to get that word out and promote the exceptional university atmosphere that is developing in Denton.

Get kids on campus, get them to stay on campus or in Denton, which has been happening more and more, get them to participate and care about the school, make UNT a destination school for more kids and the better the tradition, atmosphere and donors will become. But it takes time.

[UNT90]

Just because students may be looking for value in education doesn't mean they won't have interest in their university and come back when they've graduated.

.

But that is EXACTLY what has happened for years.

Maybe it's a generational thing. When I attended UNT, many of the students there had transferred in from their "real college" to finish their education, for whatever reason (grades, cheaper option, etc...). All wore other school's shirts and caps and viewed UNT as a means to an end and nothing more.

Maybe you are right. Maybe things are in place now to assure that doesn't happen. But I promise you, those people I talk about look at those billboards and think "yep, that's what I used it for" and nothing more.

That's why it's bothersome.

The people who decided on this campaign surely didn't consider UNT's history, and that is beyond disappointing.

[MeanGreenTexan]

But that is EXACTLY what has happened for years.

Maybe it's a generational thing. When I attended UNT, many of the students there had transferred in from their "real college" to finish their education, for whatever reason (grades, cheaper option, etc...). All wore other school's shirts and caps and viewed UNT as a means to an end and nothing more.

Maybe you are right. Maybe things are in place now to assure that doesn't happen. But I promise you, those people I talk about look at those billboards and think "yep, that's what I used it for" and nothing more.

That's why it's bothersome.

The people who decided on this campaign surely didn't consider UNT's history, and that is beyond disappointing.

Maybe they have a "whatever happened in the past, we cannot control" sort of attitude. Or, maybe they have other plans to address the apathy of former students/alumni. Either way, that should not preclude the promotion of this program.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Well, whatever the case may be for "value" tuition, this much is true - the suburbs and population are growing towards us now. So, it's not foolhardy to have a campaign for a school which the population escaping Dallas County is racing towards.

I think Rick is dead on with his campaign to the younger generation of students. We've never gotten enough interested alumni even when we've had periods of success. And, we don't have the toothless t-shirt fans that love the OUs, Texas', and A&M's of the world.

To me, you've got to look at the lay of the land and take a three-pronged approach:

(1) Keep the current and recent students as actively engaged as you can: And, here, you can check it done. We're doing a great job of that.

(2) Market to those who are moving closer to Denton by way of flight out of Dallas County: On the academics side, check; athletics...we'll see.

(3) Keep you eyes on the conference shifting - do not simply trust your commissioner! We cannot have a day where we share a conference with Texas State and Abilene Christian (who beat Troy two weeks ago, by the way).

If that day comes, we will have damned ourselves to many more decades of football anonymity. I've been in sales for the better parts of two decades, and I can tell you this: If you're going to sell something, you have to have something to sell.

We're already been duped into Sun Belt 2.0. If we get stuck in Southland 2.0...we'll have the prettiest empty stadium in all the land no matter what marketing effort we try.

Look, I just can't do many more decades of football anonymity. I've got more gray hairs now than brown, and my fiber intake is far greater than my alcohol intake these days. If there ever comes a day where I see the news of "Abilene Christian joins (Conference North Texas is in)"...that'll be the end. At some point, a dog's got to stop chasing its tail.

[FirefightnRick]

The "We Are The Cheapest Deal In Town" sales pitch is nothing new. Every administration from Hurley forward has done it as far as I know, and it's an embarrassment to MOST who read that crap.

Rick

[UNT90]

The "We Are The Cheapest Deal In Town" sales pitch is nothing new. Every administration from Hurley forward has done it as far as I know, and it's an embarrassment to MOST who read that crap.

Rick

Sad thing is, I think this is exactly what the state wants us to be. Cheap on tuition, cheap in athletics, cheap, cheap, cheap.

The discount university, if you will. Save the Tier 1 status, the serious athletics, and everything else for the "real universities" of Texas. UNT is just the discount university.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Sad thing is, I think this is exactly what the state wants us to be. Cheap on tuition, cheap in athletics, cheap, cheap, cheap.

The discount university, if you will. Save the Tier 1 status, the serious athletics, and everything else for the "real universities" of Texas. UNT is just the discount university.

This is not really "The State's" decision. It's our leadership's decision. Now, if you guys want to bash our leadership (BOR, Jackson, et al.) Please, let me step back and nod in agreement.

[UNT90]

This is not really "The State's" decision. It's our leadership's decision. Now, if you guys want to bash our leadership (BOR, Jackson, et al.) Please, let me step back and nod in agreement.

But the leadership is appointed by the governor, which is where "the state" comes in.

And historically, the leadership has been awful. Wonder why that is?

[Harry]

As a parent going through the college application process with my daughter (and son next year) I can appreciate the sensitivity to cost. While I know some choose private schools, both my wife and I went to state universities and turned out ok (well she did, I am probably up for debate).

Here's where things stand on the Texas State school front... you have Texas, A&M and then I see UNT, Texas Tech and probably Houston battling for the others here in the state. If you were a resident of the state UT back in my day used to require 10 fingers and 10 toes to get into. Now it has become much more difficult, in fact you have to be in the top 7% of your high school class to be admitted. A&M has gotten a lot tougher too although not quite as much as UT. UT and A&M are not who UNT is battling for for students. Texas Tech and the others are more the competition. But in-state is really not your biggest competition due to a nifty little feature allowing out of state schools to offer "In-State" tuition or reduced tuition for academically qualified students here in Texas. In Smatresk's speech the other day he pointed this specifically out as a challenge they are facing.

UNT has a much bigger battle with the Arkansas, OU, OSU, Alabama, LSU's, etc who will offer to the best and brightest in Texas who can't or don't want to attend UT or A&M. And to a lesser extent UNT has to battle the private schools like Baylor, Tulsa, TCU, SMU who will offer large scholarships to the best and brightest in Texas who don't want to attend UT or A&M. If a kid is purely motivated academically and has no concern for college life (football greek fun city) then I would say UTD and UTA come into play.

So the recent uptick in facilities ie Apogee stadium, the new student union, the business building is clearly a move to try and provide a more comparable experience to these big 12 and SEC schools who have big dollars and nice facilities and traditions in place.

If a kid is offered in-state tuition at OU or Arkansas and has to choose between that or North Texas we are going to lose more than we win. If a kid doesn't qualify for in state tuition at these other places UNT could be a VERY good option IF we are able to keep our tuition low.

As a parent, I can tell you the cost of sending two through college is no small issue even if you have saved for it. This isn't the world we came up in where you can get a Bachelors degree and get a good job. You pretty much have to get a graduate degree in most cases or you are swimming upstream. So what UNT is trying to offer given the competitive situation with these out of state schools targeting our prospective students is not a bad strategy in fact with the economy being down for so long it resonates now more than it ever has. My issue is I would prefer them selling VALUE and LOCATION over IT IS CHEAP... this is subtle but there has to be a way to get the point across that you can get a great education, enjoy sports, greek etc at a value and close but far enough away. That is the challenge they face in marketing UNT.

Last point -- I can tell you there are more good students from good families choosing UNT than ever before. I have seen it through my neighborhood and through friends, family etc... so they are doing a lot of good things in terms of improving the perception in the DFW and statewide community. So this thing is heading in the right direction we just need to be careful about the messaging. GMG

[untjim1995]

Well, whatever the case may be for "value" tuition, this much is true - the suburbs and population are growing towards us now. So, it's not foolhardy to have a campaign for a school which the population escaping Dallas County is racing towards.

I think Rick is dead on with his campaign to the younger generation of students. We've never gotten enough interested alumni even when we've had periods of success. And, we don't have the toothless t-shirt fans that love the OUs, Texas', and A&M's of the world.

To me, you've got to look at the lay of the land and take a three-pronged approach:

(1) Keep the current and recent students as actively engaged as you can: And, here, you can check it done. We're doing a great job of that.

(2) Market to those who are moving closer to Denton by way of flight out of Dallas County: On the academics side, check; athletics...we'll see.

(3) Keep you eyes on the conference shifting - do not simply trust your commissioner! We cannot have a day where we share a conference with Texas State and Abilene Christian (who beat Troy two weeks ago, by the way).

If that day comes, we will have damned ourselves to many more decades of football anonymity. I've been in sales for the better parts of two decades, and I can tell you this: If you're going to sell something, you have to have something to sell.

We're already been duped into Sun Belt 2.0. If we get stuck in Southland 2.0...we'll have the prettiest empty stadium in all the land no matter what marketing effort we try.

Look, I just can't do many more decades of football anonymity. I've got more gray hairs now than brown, and my fiber intake is far greater than my alcohol intake these days. If there ever comes a day where I see the news of "Abilene Christian joins (Conference North Texas is in)"...that'll be the end. At some point, a dog's got to stop chasing its tail.

When it comes to North Texas, I've learned that it really is better to never underestimate who we will be glad to play in a conference with. I believe that Sam Houston State, SFA, Southwest Texas State, McNeese State, NIcholls State, Northwestern (LA) State, NE Louisiana, Texas-San Antonio, Texas-Arlington, Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana Tech, Troy, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, South Alabama, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, Charlotte, New Mexico State, Idaho, Utah State, Arkansas-Little Rock, and the University of New Orleans have been some of our conference mates from 1982-our CUSA days. Abiline Christian, McMurry, Texas Wesleyan, Hardin-Simmons,Tarleton State, Texas A&M Commerce, West Texas A&M, Midwestern State, Sul Ross State, and Angelo State are probably wondering how they haven't managed to get into a conference with us in the last 30 years...

[Ben Gooding]

The billboard is stupid and needs to be taken down ASAP. Perception is EVERYTHING in terms of people on the outside looking in. I35 is a very, very heavily traveled interstate. We have to ask ourselves..Is "Above the rest for thousands less" really the image we want to push out to the public eye? There are better ways to market this.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Ben Gooding

[Cerebus]

But the leadership is appointed by the governor, which is where "the state" comes in.

And historically, the leadership has been awful. Wonder why that is?

UNT90 is right. This BOR was picked to carry out the wishes of the Higher Education Coordinating Board, which was also appointed by a governor. They fully intend to keep us as an overflow school because they don't want to send too many people to aTm and UT.

[UNT90]

UNT90 is right.

Sorry, I quit reading after this.

[UNT90]

But seriously, the only way to solve the overall problem is to have alumni that care about UNT appointed to these boards and elected to the state congress.

Flyer?

[Cerebus]

But seriously, the only way to solve the overall problem is to have alumni that care about UNT appointed to these boards and elected to the state congress.

The way to fix this problem is to get alumni in the legislature. That is why the law school is so important. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have the state top offices filled with Mean Green graduates.

[untjim1995]

As a parent going through the college application process with my daughter (and son next year) I can appreciate the sensitivity to cost. While I know some choose private schools, both my wife and I went to state universities and turned out ok (well she did, I am probably up for debate).

Here's where things stand on the Texas State school front... you have Texas, A&M and then I see UNT, Texas Tech and probably Houston battling for the others here in the state. If you were a resident of the state UT back in my day used to require 10 fingers and 10 toes to get into. Now it has become much more difficult, in fact you have to be in the top 7% of your high school class to be admitted. A&M has gotten a lot tougher too although not quite as much as UT. UT and A&M are not who UNT is battling for for students. Texas Tech and the others are more the competition. But in-state is really not your biggest competition due to a nifty little feature allowing out of state schools to offer "In-State" tuition or reduced tuition for academically qualified students here in Texas. In Smatresk's speech the other day he pointed this specifically out as a challenge they are facing.

UNT has a much bigger battle with the Arkansas, OU, OSU, Alabama, LSU's, etc who will offer to the best and brightest in Texas who can't or don't want to attend UT or A&M. And to a lesser extent UNT has to battle the private schools like Baylor, Tulsa, TCU, SMU who will offer large scholarships to the best and brightest in Texas who don't want to attend UT or A&M. If a kid is purely motivated academically and has no concern for college life (football greek fun city) then I would say UTD and UTA come into play.

So the recent uptick in facilities ie Apogee stadium, the new student union, the business building is clearly a move to try and provide a more comparable experience to these big 12 and SEC schools who have big dollars and nice facilities and traditions in place.

If a kid is offered in-state tuition at OU or Arkansas and has to choose between that or North Texas we are going to lose more than we win. If a kid doesn't qualify for in state tuition at these other places UNT could be a VERY good option IF we are able to keep our tuition low.

As a parent, I can tell you the cost of sending two through college is no small issue even if you have saved for it. This isn't the world we came up in where you can get a Bachelors degree and get a good job. You pretty much have to get a graduate degree in most cases or you are swimming upstream. So what UNT is trying to offer given the competitive situation with these out of state schools targeting our prospective students is not a bad strategy in fact with the economy being down for so long it resonates now more than it ever has. My issue is I would prefer them selling VALUE and LOCATION over IT IS CHEAP... this is subtle but there has to be a way to get the point across that you can get a great education, enjoy sports, greek etc at a value and close but far enough away. That is the challenge they face in marketing UNT.

Last point -- I can tell you there are more good students from good families choosing UNT than ever before. I have seen it through my neighborhood and through friends, family etc... so they are doing a lot of good things in terms of improving the perception in the DFW and statewide community. So this thing is heading in the right direction we just need to be careful about the messaging. GMG

If my child was going off to college and he or she wnated a true college experience, I'd tell them that going to a school that has its own town to itself and plays at the highest level of athletics would enhance that experience greatly. Obviously, if academics are the sole parameter to make this choice, then that changes a lot of that. But I am truly jealous of all of my buddies who went to the Big XII schools, SEC schools, or any other bigtime conference, just for the attachment they have to their teams and the coverage they get for their games against each other. Their experience in college was much different than mine, when it comes to athletics. Yes, I loved UNT and Denton as a student and that part of the experience was great, both on campus and off campus. But my Tech buddies talk about the times they beat Texas, A&M, OU, Kansas, and other top teams in football and hoops while going to school in Lubbock. Same type of experience goes for my friends that went to A&M, Texas, OU, OSU, Baylor, LSU, Arkansas, KU, KSU, and Mizzou. And that is a big part of a college student's life at one of those schools--and it carries forward.

I'd bet that at least one of my three kids will go to UNT when the time comes, maybe even all three--both the wife and I graduated from UNT. They love going to games, but the oldest is already getting the itch to go watch the big time teams and asks why we don't play any of those teams in Denton. As I tell my wife, I want the kids to go where they want to go, to the place that makes them feel most comfortable, but also the place where they will feel like that is their school for life--sports is often the biggest connecting point, in my opinion, to an alum feeling that connection. My wife went from community college to UNT, never went to one game while there, and has no interest in developing that relationship back to the school. Her sisters went from community college to Texas A&M--one never went to a game there either, but the other one is as diehard an Aggie as you can meet. My wife see how much that connection meant to her younger sister and how important it still is to their family. And she can now see how that experience she never tried to have with UNT would have changed her view of the university completely if she had either tried to create one or, if, like those kids at the big schools, made it an event to always be on campus on the weekends and to be at the stadium for home games. That's where Oklahoma, OSU, KU, KSU, Mizzou, Arkansas, and LSU pick up the Texas kids that populate their student bodies so heavily--they can offer the kids who don't get into or don't want to go to UT, A&M, and Tech an awesome opportunity to enjoy that experience. That's why this P5 split is about so much more than just sports teams and money for the ADs at their schools. It gives them free commercials every game that the networks show them, it gives them free promotion every time the various media outlets are talking about the games they play, and most importantly, they give their economies a huge boost for those events, which helps everyone involved with the university in those towns.

[FirefightnRick]

Harry's last post proves another point of mine. He and Kim researched the issue. Like any good parents they have learned the costs/value issues needed to make the decisions. They don't need a billboard screaming "Cheap Asses Wanted" to get informed about North Texas.

Rick

Edited September 23, 2014 by FirefightnRick

[MeanGreenTexan]

Harry's last post proves another point of mine. He and Kim researched the issue. Like any good parents they have learned the costs/value issues needed to make the decisions. They don't need a billboard screaming "Cheap Asses Wanted" to get informed about North Texas.

Rick

Harry is also a VERY WELL CONNECTED alumnus.

Joe HighSchoolSeniorDad may have gone to a different school, or never went to a university. Those kinds of folks won't know about the new program at UNT. But I'm sure they're very interested when they see it!

Is it bad for perception that this billboard is the only one you or I (gotta admit, I don't really see any others) see? Maybe.

Is it damaging (or in your eyes, perpetuating) UNT's brand? I don't think so.

[Ben Gooding]

You don't have to be a connected alum to research something. Finding out about tuition rates and comparing them per capita is simple. A high school graduate mother or father can do this. When push comes to shove most people do their research online for college choices and not by billboard searches. It is being marketed on the UNT site and is easy to find. Take. The. Billboard. Down.

[HoustonEagle]

Harry's last post proves another point of mine. He and Kim researched the issue. Like any good parents they have learned the costs/value issues needed to make the decisions. They don't need a billboard screaming "Cheap Asses Wanted" to get informed about North Texas.

Rick

I think the issue boils down to what truly is the mission of our University. The state legislator that frames our mission speaks out of both sides of their mouth. They say they want us and other Texas institutions to become tier 1 all the while stearing us to being an affordable education for the masses. While that is a necessity for the state and region. Most alumni would like to see the value of the name on their diploma increasing. I think our only hope to increase our prestige is for UNT-D to take over our roll as DFW's Education Olive Garden.

[UNT90]

I hate off weeks.

[HoustonEagle]

I hate off weeks.

We have to be creative to find new things to complain about. The force is strong in you, young UNT90. You will pull through.