Inside Higher Ed: "Empty Seats, Fewer Donors Later?"

THOR · September 23, 2014

90 can complain about anything...

UNT90 · September 23, 2014

90 can complain about anything...

I hate people who complain about complainers.

Freakin hypocrites.

GL2Greatness · September 23, 2014

there is a major lack of acceptance of reality on this forum

1. the familair comment is "I could have gone AnYwHeRe, but I CHOSE north Texas"

so you are admitting that you made a choice to come to a university that has discounted athletics for their entire existence and that has appealed to students that did not care for athletics and then you wonder why those former students still do not care about athletics.....clueless much?

2. Rick Perry and the leadership of the state of Texas really have nothing to do with how north Texas is governed......what ou still can't grasp and fail to realize is that back in 1998 or so north Texas and the fledgling north Texas system was basically handed off to the corrupt "leadership" of dallas and dallas county to bribe them to keep out of the politics and activities and wishes of all the remaining universities and university systems in Texas

the THECB does not appoint BOR members that is done directly by the governor the THECB is a powerless organization in Texas

there are several former north Texas students on the BOR as well you can read their BIOs here

http://untsystem.edu/regents/profiles.htm

but again these are just do nothing and rubber stampers that listen to what lee the idiot proposes and then they stamp it without further consideration or evaluation

and 100% of that revolves around wasting state education dollars in dallas proper and dallas county.......look back when the "system" started taking over......look back when royce west and wiley price started taking an interest in the north Texas system (when royce was the chairman of the senate higher ed committee)

take a look when the dallas juco was first proposed......and the joke of a law school.........take a look at the fact that royce really wanted an A&M or UT System school or even a TTU Sytem school in south dallas

http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/members/dist23/pr97/p050897a.htm

when royce found out that A&M was only going to do a "system center" for the long term, UT said "no thanks" and Texas Tech said "no thanks" royce became very critical of all things A&M for a number of months.......then it was alhurley the moron and north Texas to the rescue......."conquering dallas!!!".......and everyone else in higher ed in Texas said....."take it and break it who cares just leave UT and A&M and Tech and UH and everyone else alone"

and PS take a look at when the financial crisis and the lack of proper accounting and bookkeeking started happening.......not long after royce, lee and wiley got their hands on things and got THEIR morons in place and after the rest of the state stopped caring.......Rick Perry and the rest are not the issue the issue is right in your own back yard and it always has been and always will be

3. the "cheap" thing is a failure and really it is not even true

here are the numbers

Enrollment Increase 2000-2013 Total % Texas State University 13123 58.525 The University of Texas at Arlington 12905 63.185 The University of Texas at Dallas 10248 93.632 The University of Texas at San Antonio 9793 52.007 University of North Texas 9114 33.688 Texas Tech University 8598 35.53 The University of Texas at El Paso 7702 50.591 University of Houston 7417

23.089

Enrollment Increase 2008-2013 Total % The University of Texas at Arlington 8245 32.87 Texas State University 6441 22.13 The University of Texas at Dallas 6250 41.826 Texas Tech University 4375 15.393 University of Houston 3436 9.517 The University of Texas at El Paso 2468 12.064 University of North Texas 1470 4.2366 The University of Texas at San Antonio 210 0.7391

Tuition And Fees Increase 2000-2013 Dollars The University of Texas at Dallas 7627 University of Houston 6324 Texas Tech University 5974 The University of Texas at Arlington 5690 University of North Texas 5674 The University of Texas at San Antonio 5536 Texas State University 5341 The University of Texas at El Paso 4069

Tuition And Fees Increase 2008-2013 Dollars The University of Texas at Dallas 3038 University of North Texas 2398 Texas State University 2252 Texas Tech University 2159 The University of Texas at San Antonio 2156 The University of Texas at Arlington 2112 University of Houston 1605 The University of Texas at El Paso 1434

Average Tuition And Fees 2000 2008 2013 The University of Texas at Dallas $3,965 $8,554 $11,592 University of Houston $2,987 $7,706 $9,311 Texas Tech University $3,268 $7,083 $9,242 The University of Texas at Arlington $3,462 $7,040 $9,152 University of North Texas $3,404 $6,680 $9,078 The University of Texas at San Antonio $3,468 $6,848 $9,004 Texas State University $3,429 $6,518 $8,770 The University of Texas at El Paso $2,975 $5,610 $7,044

so the university with the largest gains in % of enrollment from 2000-2013 and from 2008-2013 also has the highest tuition by a long shot and the highest increase in tuition......they also have the most diffucult entrance requirements so there goes the common north Texas argument that "the others just let anyone in" (which is false anyway

that same school also had the third highest increase in total students from 2000-1013 and from 2008-2013

UH has the highest total enrollment out of the emerging research universities and the second highest tuition and now the 3rd highest admissions requirements of those 8 universities behind UTD and TTU

UTA has a slightly higher tuition and from 2000-2013 they had a slightly higher increase.....from 2008-2013 north Texas actually had the higher increase in tuition and fees.......but UTA had the higher enrollment increases long term and admissions requirements are pretty much a wash between the two and UTA actually enrolls a much higher % of students in the top 25% of HS class and the SAT and ACT scores are very similar (as per the 2014 NRUF report) and as per that report UTA and UTD were the only two universities with "freshman class of high achievement" so again any accusations of "letting anyone in for enrollment" would be false

when you look at the universities that have been able to gain enrollment and that have tuition that is higher or slightly higher what really should stand out is those are the universities that have had consistent high quality leadership......they have not been bogged down by "system building" especially at the expense of the flagship campus, they have developed NEEDED and focused programs even if they were away from the flagship campus and that had broad state support

they are consistently in national rankings for various popular programs, they have larger endowments and they excel at fundraising or they have finally started to take it serious and they have actually increased admissions standards or they had existing high admissions instead of keeping admissions lower for the purposes of income and enrollment......and two out of the three have already obtained NRUF funding and the third one will be the next university to do so probably in 2 years time

they do not just give lip service to things or start stupid campaigns that end with a fizzle and they take actual mesurable achievements seriously instead of silly branding campaigns and hype that is not really true when more closely examined

just an overall imability to accept the choices that some have made in a university, inability to evaluate and identify the issues (it is not SMU) at that university and the causes or to accept the position that university is in so as to have a realistic plan and expecations for the future......like oh I don't know say turning in the strategic plan for research to the THECB that was due several months back and actually using realistic numbers in it instead of pie in the sky numbers that are never met

THOR · September 24, 2014

Who said I was complaining...it was a compliment, ya organhead! :beer:

Edited September 24, 2014 by THOR

UNT90 · September 24, 2014

Who said I was complaining...it was a compliment, ya organhead!

Oh, that post wasn't directed at you, you were just the mechanism. ;-)

MeanGreenTexan · September 24, 2014

I think Checkfacts' disdain for Lee Jackson can be rivaled only by Gretchen. Bravo sir!

Mad Hatter · September 25, 2014

I graduated in 2000. My wife, several fraternity brothers with their spouses and friends, were big into tailgating during the Dickey years and start of Dodge. Then we all started having kids at a time where the product was bad. Now that we're improving again we're all running around to soccer, volleyball, etc for our kids. I think it's awesome that we have the games on tv because I love watching them (recording many to watch later). I hate seeing the stands empty but know that I'm part of the problem. Some day our lives will settle and we'll be back. I guess there will be several of those "waves" of fans over time, we just don't have as many older, die hard alumni to fill the stands currently.

Getting the students to buy in, and know how much fun it can be, WILL keep them coming back, even if it's in a wave over time. We're on the right track, it just sucks that athletics was neglected so long.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Mad Hatter

untjim1995 · September 25, 2014

I graduated in 2000. My wife, several fraternity brothers with their spouses and friends, were big into tailgating during the Dickey years and start of Dodge. Then we all started having kids at a time where the product was bad. Now that we're improving again we're all running around to soccer, volleyball, etc for our kids. I think it's awesome that we have the games on tv because I love watching them (recording many to watch later). I hate seeing the stands empty but know that I'm part of the problem. Some day our lives will settle and we'll be back. I guess there will be several of those "waves" of fans over time, we just don't have as many older, die hard alumni to fill the stands currently.
Getting the students to buy in, and know how much fun it can be, WILL keep them coming back, even if it's in a wave over time. We're on the right track, it just sucks that athletics was neglected so long.

I'm also in this stage of life, with kids that are 9, 6, and 4. Its frustrating to have to miss games like I have had so far this year against teams I want to see us play (SMU and La Tech), but DVR saves the day at least for me since I can still see us play on TV. But this all illustrates the fact that the group of people who would have grown children right now, your graduates of the late 70s to the early 90s, should be your season ticket base and major part of the donating base. But we lost 95% of them with the i-aa fiasco. Its why I think the attendance and support will get much better in about 20 years, as the graduates of UNT from the mid-90s to today will be the ones that are more tied into the university than we have had for the previous 2 decades before.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 25, 2014

I think the answer to the "kids playing soccer/football, etc." is night games. We have an eight year old and a six year old. Both play soccer. The boy also plays lacrosse, baseball, and basketball. The girl is going to begin softball/t-ball in the spring. Many of their piano recitals and competitions are also during the day on Saturdays; and, there are three or four of those a year.

Most kiddie-league games are in the morning. We've had the very, very rare 4 p.m. kickoff or first pitch, but many only once or twice. The majority are in the morning or before 4 p.m.

I think 6 p.m., 7 p.m., or 8 p.m. kickoffs would do wonder for those with kids who can't make day games. Somehow, though, I feel like the game times are slave to television contracts. So, again, you're back to the negotiating power of your commissioner...and, the backbone of your conference's athletic directors.

Edited September 25, 2014 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Ben Gooding · September 25, 2014

Well, next home game is a 6pm kickoff against a known program, Southern Miss. Beat Indiana and UAB expect a really, really good crowd. GMG

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2014

Lose to Indiana and UAB...then what?

Ben Gooding · September 26, 2014

Lose to Indiana and UAB...then what?

Expect 17k. And that's bad for even CUSA given the time of kickoff and it being a conference game. Also expect a lot of disgusted, upset fans. And rightfully so. 2-4 in year 4 is unacceptable, even at North Texas. I suspect us to split and come back home 3-3, but coming home 2-4 or 4-2 would not be surprising at this point. GMG

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2014

I expect 3-3 as well. A 2-4 start and I think we have trouble cracking 17k. At that point, the writing will be on the wall for the casual fan.

A 2-4 means we've got nothing at QB with what we thought we had a QB, and it'd be down to pulling guys off the bench and burning their redshirts. Which...as you say, after four years isn't really acceptable.