Thoughts on Williams move

Christopher Walker · September 16, 2014

Considering our dismal QB recruiting over the years, UNT should always be recruiting one or two QB's every year.

I want to know who all are the QBs we have now. We saw five or six in the spring, but if you watch the most recent Beyond The Green, there are eight players in that QB meeting room with Canales.

VideoEagle · September 16, 2014

Out of high school:

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Josh-Greer-110407

Out of JC:

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Josh-Greer-149907

Better offers after high school, but there could be a number of reasons for that.

Thanks!

gradumacated · September 16, 2014

I think part of the reason that Mac doesn't want to sign a QB this class is right now we have four (soon to be five) QBs on the squad who have scholarships: Greer, McNulty, Williams, Means, and the greyshirt kid - Caleb Chumley (probably will be moved to FB/HB/TE, but for now he's listed as QB) - so with Williams having over three years left, and Means with four years, plus the extra years for Greer and McNulty, unless they plan to move on it seems expensive to take another QB in the '15 class.

But still.

It's part of football to yank the scholarships from players who aren't up to par. Let them transfer if they want to still play and earn their degrees. Tough love.

Ben Gooding · September 16, 2014

A game against Nicholls should be a rout no matter if NT runs nothing but the wildcat. Not sure anything can be proved this week.

This week really isn't about proving anything. It's about getting DW valuable reps to boost his confidence that will lead into a great 2 weeks of practice in preparation for Indiana.

VideoEagle · September 16, 2014

This week really isn't about proving anything. It's about getting DW valuable reps to boost his confidence that will lead into a great 2 weeks of practice in preparation for Indiana.

Close, we still need to win this game to stay on track at being bowl eligible. But, yes, this about getting reps for DW.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 16, 2014

Are you serious? No one ever said he isn't accountable for his actions. Do you think he is anywhere close to being the first player at UNT to not show up to camp in the greatest shape? He missed practice for the birth of his child. As he should have. He's still in school too.
Why don't you cast the first stone? Or maybe he shouldn't have taken responsibility for his actions and been absent for his child as so many losers do these days?
Your post makes you sounds like one of those judgemental people who were angry when Roethlisberger missed a game to be with his wife giving birth. Seriously, get over it because your post sounded as you've never made a mistake. You are obviously a grown man being judgmental on a kid. Once again, it's a f'ing game.
Usually I agree with your posts but being judgmental of a kid working his way through life is outrageous.

I don't think I've said anything anywhere near as firm as what his head coach has said about him. And nothing I said indicates that he was "the first player at UNT" to have issues or to show immaturity. And nothing I said had anything to do with being present for the birth of his child--he needed to be there. But you want to imagine that he has conducted himself with maturity, and is only a victim of "life's issues," when he put himself in a predicament for which he can blame no one else but himself.

Judgmental comments about being "too judgmental" just drip with irony.

UNTexas · September 16, 2014

"Judgmental comments about being "too judgmental" just drip with irony." Mean Green 93-98

Your reply sounds very similiar to something Mike Brady from the Brady Bunch movies would say while using oddly inappropriate gonorrhea references. Now you're casting stones from a creepy primer grey van with no windows.

Edited September 16, 2014 by UNTexas

JRock · September 16, 2014

You know who would be a good mentor for Dajon is Sarge.

THIS is a great idea. The Coaching staff need to connect the two. Good Mentor.

untjim1995 · September 16, 2014

I think Emmitt posted about this, but we are in danger of falling into a very Dickey-esque situation at QB if we aren't careful. Dickey had Scott Hall at QB..and that was about it. He was the only QB Dickey ever had that could actually produce points and wins while he coached here. Nobody else had any sustained success at that position under Dickey, in part because no decent QB wanted to play for his style of offense. Its certainly looking that way right now for us with Coach Mac. Its one thing to have a hard-nosed, run-first offense that pounds the ball, but passing QBs don't want to play in that offense . Now, as it was with Scott Hall and Derek Thompson to a slightly lesser degree, if you can find a QB that can make the 8-12 throws a game that you need to win a game with this offensive mindset, you can have some great success as a team, since no one else plays that way anymore, except for a handful of teams. Unfortunately, though, if your QB has no confidence (see Greer or Meager from Dickey's 2006 season) or will not be allowed to go outside of the box to generate offense (Woody Wilson comes to mind, praying Dajon won't find himself in the same category), you get Dickey years like 1998-2000 and 2006-2007, as well as the first two teams Coach Mac had here at UNT.

Eagle1855 · September 16, 2014

Yes! I'm sure he will be better on busted plays. But I don't want to depend on busted plays working out because even with DW most of them won't. Let's see what he can do with a few weeks of serious practice.

Eh, Johnny Manziel won a Heisman doing that very thing.

VideoEagle · September 16, 2014

Eh, Johnny Manziel won a Heisman doing that very thing.

Didn't work out so well for A&M's record though.

NorthTexan95 · September 16, 2014

I'm gonna look at this in a positive view ... Williams will be at least a good, solid quarterback. Means will do the same. So for the next four years after this we'll have some solid depth at the position. Greer and McNulty can finish their time here or they can move on and play somewhere else. Works for me.

BillySee58 · September 16, 2014

Didn't work out so well for A&M's record though.

4 game win improvement from 2011 to 2012 (when he took over and won the Heisman) begs to differ. Edited September 16, 2014 by BillySee58

Eagle1855 · September 16, 2014

Didn't work out so well for A&M's record though.

Which one, the 11-2 record where they housed OU or the 9-4 one that matches our best effort, ever?

Aldo · September 16, 2014

Eh, Johnny Manziel won a Heisman doing that very thing.

With great anticipation, elite delivery, great accuracy, scrambling...

DW has good delivery and a strong arm. Let's hope his accuracy is good too. I think we all recall the play where he threw across the field to Caldwell. That was great anticipation and delivery of the ball between the CB and the safety. The other notable ones were to open receivers.

The one thing that I question is the speed of decision making. Against 1st team defenses he'll have to be a little quicker. But that just takes getting some playing time in.

UNTLifer · September 16, 2014

I think Emmitt posted about this, but we are in danger of falling into a very Dickey-esque situation at QB if we aren't careful. Dickey had Scott Hall at QB..and that was about it. He was the only QB Dickey ever had that could actually produce points and wins while he coached here. Nobody else had any sustained success at that position under Dickey, in part because no decent QB wanted to play for his style of offense. Its certainly looking that way right now for us with Coach Mac. Its one thing to have a hard-nosed, run-first offense that pounds the ball, but passing QBs don't want to play in that offense . Now, as it was with Scott Hall and Derek Thompson to a slightly lesser degree, if you can find a QB that can make the 8-12 throws a game that you need to win a game with this offensive mindset, you can have some great success as a team, since no one else plays that way anymore, except for a handful of teams. Unfortunately, though, if your QB has no confidence (see Greer or Meager from Dickey's 2006 season) or will not be allowed to go outside of the box to generate offense (Woody Wilson comes to mind, praying Dajon won't find himself in the same category), you get Dickey years like 1998-2000 and 2006-2007, as well as the first two teams Coach Mac had here at UNT.

Andrew Smith may have something to say about that.

I get the point, but I think it is pretty early to be making this statement just because we are not slinging it around 40+ times a game. Many schools throw it 20 to 30 a game and do just fine recruiting QB's. That is where we are with this offense, not driving DD's Buick and tossing it 10 to 15 a game.

GreenMachine · September 17, 2014

Didn't work out so well for A&M's record though.[/quote
]
WTF? A&M had a pretty damn good record Manziel's 2 years.

VideoEagle · September 17, 2014

Not according to the Aggies! They didn't win the SEC West and weren't even close his second year. The Aggies were expecting to win the SEC championship.

Depending on making broken plays doesn't work!

I don't think we will be depending on broken plays with DW but some earlier suggested broken plays were a way to win and cited Manziel. I just pointed out it worked out better for Manziel than for his team!

Edited September 17, 2014 by VideoEagle

Mean_Green09 · September 17, 2014

I think Emmitt posted about this, but we are in danger of falling into a very Dickey-esque situation at QB if we aren't careful. Dickey had Scott Hall at QB..and that was about it. He was the only QB Dickey ever had that could actually produce points and wins while he coached here. Nobody else had any sustained success at that position under Dickey, in part because no decent QB wanted to play for his style of offense. Its certainly looking that way right now for us with Coach Mac. Its one thing to have a hard-nosed, run-first offense that pounds the ball, but passing QBs don't want to play in that offense . Now, as it was with Scott Hall and Derek Thompson to a slightly lesser degree, if you can find a QB that can make the 8-12 throws a game that you need to win a game with this offensive mindset, you can have some great success as a team, since no one else plays that way anymore, except for a handful of teams. Unfortunately, though, if your QB has no confidence (see Greer or Meager from Dickey's 2006 season) or will not be allowed to go outside of the box to generate offense (Woody Wilson comes to mind, praying Dajon won't find himself in the same category), you get Dickey years like 1998-2000 and 2006-2007, as well as the first two teams Coach Mac had here at UNT.

This is Texas. If we can't recruit a good QB then we aren't doing it right. Recruits aren't scared of what offense we run. This offense would sling it just fine if we had a guy to do it. We had a game manager/distributer last year and we played to his strong suits. Canales will call plays that he knows Dajon can execute. Our offense will always be designed to what the players can do. Greer had trouble throwing and reading a defense so why call a pass? If the execution is there this offense can score plenty of points. It's a spread offense with power running concepts. Not many spread teams can line up in 2 TE sets and then transition to a 4 WR set and still be successful. Ours can when the threat of a completed pass is there.

KRAM1 · September 17, 2014

I don't think we will be depending on broken plays with DW but some earlier suggested broken plays were a way to win and cited Manziel. I just pointed out it worked out better for Manziel than for his team!

Anyone who follows college football without a team or player bias knows this statement is right on point. Aggies never won their conference nor an SEC title with Manziel....but Manziel did OK for Manziel.

Mean_Green09 · September 17, 2014

Anyone who follows college football without a team or player bias knows this statement is right on point. Aggies never won their conference nor an SEC title with Manziel....but Manziel did OK for Manziel.

Wasn't JM's fault coach swag didn't recruit defensive players that could stay off the crime report and produce on the field.

the green rokemi · September 17, 2014

Andrew Smith may have something to say about that.
I get the point, but I think it is pretty early to be making this statement just because we are not slinging it around 40+ times a game. Many schools throw it 20 to 30 a game and do just fine recruiting QB's. That is where we are with this offense, not driving DD's Buick and tossing it 10 to 15 a game.

Thank you. Andrew Smith was primed to take over after Scott Hall and he was definitely better than any of the qbs that followed him. Sadly tragedy struck and it set the program back

greenit · September 17, 2014

It has been mentioned that this coaching staff may prefer a prototypical sized, tall, QB. I am leaning toward that being Chico's preference, not Mac's. Mac won with a 5'11" Seneca Wallace. Chico's claim to fame is Philip Rivers (6'5").

There is practically an unending supply of Tx QBs that put up gaudy numbers every year, but are undersized and go overlooked each year. We could easily tap those QBs and promote the zone option read style and focus on power running, with the option to throw with a savvy signal caller.

Look no further than our roster to find someone like a Derrick Teegarden that was a tremendous HS dual threat QB and never played QB here. We have others currently on the roster, such as Shanbour, that have solid HS numbers, but have not really received much interest, seemingly due to size.

Much like targeting the ample supply of HS RBs and beefy lineman to create a strong running game in a world of pass first offenses, we may be missing an opportunity to offer the undersized DT QB an opportunity show their stuff in a run first offense, that needs the threat of an proven, but overlooked, passer.

Got5onIt · September 17, 2014

It has been mentioned that this coaching staff may prefer a prototypical sized, tall, QB. I am leaning toward that being Chico's preference, not Mac's. Mac won with a 5'11" Seneca Wallace. Chico's claim to fame is Philip Rivers (6'5").

There is practically an unending supply of Tx QBs that put up gaudy numbers every year, but are undersized and go overlooked each year. We could easily tap those QBs and promote the zone option read style and focus on power running, with the option to throw with a savvy signal caller.

Look no further than our roster to find someone like a Derrick Teegarden that was a tremendous HS dual threat QB and never played QB here. We have others currently on the roster, such as Shanbour, that have solid HS numbers, but have not really received much interest, seemingly due to size.

Much like targeting the ample supply of HS RBs and beefy lineman to create a strong running game in a world of pass first offenses, we may be missing an opportunity to offer the undersized DT QB an opportunity show their stuff in a run first offense, that needs the threat of an proven, but overlooked, passer.

I think the 6'3" minimum was specifically quoted from Mac. I don't think Canales gives 2 $hits about how tall a QB is. He had some short and very capable QB's at UAB.

MGNation92 · September 17, 2014

It has been mentioned that this coaching staff may prefer a prototypical sized, tall, QB. I am leaning toward that being Chico's preference, not Mac's. Mac won with a 5'11" Seneca Wallace. Chico's claim to fame is Philip Rivers (6'5").

There is practically an unending supply of Tx QBs that put up gaudy numbers every year, but are undersized and go overlooked each year. We could easily tap those QBs and promote the zone option read style and focus on power running, with the option to throw with a savvy signal caller.

Look no further than our roster to find someone like a Derrick Teegarden that was a tremendous HS dual threat QB and never played QB here. We have others currently on the roster, such as Shanbour, that have solid HS numbers, but have not really received much interest, seemingly due to size.

Much like targeting the ample supply of HS RBs and beefy lineman to create a strong running game in a world of pass first offenses, we may be missing an opportunity to offer the undersized DT QB an opportunity show their stuff in a run first offense, that needs the threat of an proven, but overlooked, passer.

I played against Teegarden in high school. Couldn't throw worth a crap and benefitted from handing it off to a fantastic runningback in Bradley Marquez. They just ran it all the time. Hell of an athlete but not a D1 quarterback by any means