UNT QB

meangreen15 · September 9, 2014

This is why DW should start on Thursday...

Not including DW's only possession we had the ball 13 times. We started drives on SMU's 14, 31, 31, and 21. We started drives on our own 42, 44, 49, and 43. Eight of our 13 offensive possessions (excluding the one DW drive) we started our drive in stupid good field position. Our touchdown drives in this game (not including DW's poss) was of 14 and 21 yards. Our FG drives were of 31, 25, 26, 27, and 52 yards (which was the longest drive of the game not including DW's poss, 68 yards). With 5 takeaways we still managed to punt the ball FIVE times, of which all were 3 and outs except for one. The lonesome punt that wasn't 3 & out was a 7 play 28 yard drive. So when we had to start a drive in "normal" field position our only other 5 possessions, we punted. On DW's only drive he went 1 for 1 on 3rd down. Our other two QB's managed to go 5 for 15, 33% conversion (on the year 8 for 31 on 3rd down). Our 2 passing QB's of the game went 12-17 for 108 yards and had an average QB rating of 32.6. Our coaches trust these QB's so much more than DW that they ran the ball 55 times compared to 17 pass attempts. That's 76% rushing plays. That will NOT work against a competent defense, ever. Yes, it's easy for us to say that running the football was working, right? But was it really? Take away Erick Evans 53 yard td run in garbage time we had an average ypc of 3.5. This offense is concerning, very concerning. Offenses, even running ones, start and stop with the QB. Regardless of what people think of DW or what high regard you may hold Greer in, our best QB on this roster is a 3rd stringer. All of these numbers were against a pretty soft defense too. They have 2 guys on that D that brings the wood in Yenga and Mortes. The rest are pillow soft. I will probably get bashed for this post, but the numbers are right there. I didn't create them, I just typed them. GMG

^

This

pastorgrant · September 9, 2014

On any passing play, there is always a receiver that is wide open, but yet, the QB does not see the wide open receiver.
I have seen missed opportunities with many North Texas QB's over the seasons from QB's like Jordan Case, Scott Hall,
to name a couple of QB's that turned out pretty darn good.

Coaches review game film, review open receivers, receivers that were covered, and other options on the play with the QB's.

The coaches break down game film, then review and teach the players/QB's on how to make the play work better.

In practice, the Coaches, QB's, and WR's work on the missed pass opportunities, and passing routes, to improve their play for the next game.

Dork, call up Coach Canales yourself and tell Coach Canales how you can coach QB's, and explain that Greer can not get away with JUCO ball at the D1 level.
Tell Coach Canales that Greer needs to make pass completions to open up the play book. Get that point in Canales's head first, then Greer's head second.
I am sure Coach Canales would appreciate your personal input on how you can coach QB's and WR's.

Like i said, you and other MG arm chair coaches, should call up coach Canales direct. Give Canales your what for about Greer, and your advice on coaching QB's. When you call up Canales, you should also call Coach Mac too. Tell coach Mac how good you are at evaluating QB's and coaching QB's.
Tell Coach Mac you should be the OC!

Talking about football is entirely appropriate on a football fan forum. We aren't insulting Chico's mom. (Though i did hear that La. Tech players WERE insulting his mom) Edited September 9, 2014 by pastorgrant

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 9, 2014

I like Greer. I like McNulty. And, I like Williams.

But, what I like most of all is winning.

Withers940 · September 9, 2014

On any passing play, there is always a receiver that is wide open, but yet, the QB does not see the wide open receiver.

I have seen missed opportunities with many North Texas QB's over the seasons from QB's like Jordan Case, Scott Hall,

to name a couple of QB's that turned out pretty darn good.

Coaches review game film, review open receivers, receivers that were covered, and other options on the play with the QB's.

The coaches break down game film, then review and teach the players/QB's on how to make the play work better.

In practice, the Coaches, QB's, and WR's work on the missed pass opportunities, and passing routes, to improve their play for the next game.

Dork, call up Coach Canales yourself and tell Coach Canales how you can coach QB's, and explain that Greer can not get away with JUCO ball at the D1 level.

Tell Coach Canales that Greer needs to make pass completions to open up the play book. Get that point in Canales's head first, then Greer's head second.

I am sure Coach Canales would appreciate your personal input on how you can coach QB's and WR's.

Like i said, you and other MG arm chair coaches, should call up coach Canales direct. Give Canales your what for about Greer, and your advice on coaching QB's. When you call up Canales, you should also call Coach Mac too. Tell coach Mac how good you are at evaluating QB's and coaching QB's.

Tell Coach Mac you should be the OC!

I agree with you on the bold statement but the rest is just unnecessary chatter. Like PastorGrant said, "we arent insulting Chico's mother".

In my personal ARM CHAIG COACHING opinion, I would like to see them open the playbook a little and spread the ball around but i am behind what ever it takes to win each week. If that means running it 76% of the time one week and then passing it 65% the next then fine. I dont watch and break down game film of each opponent like Chico and Mac so i fully trust that they know what will work best each week.

meangreendork · September 9, 2014

On any passing play, there is always a receiver that is wide open, but yet, the QB does not see the wide open receiver.

I have seen missed opportunities with many North Texas QB's over the seasons from QB's like Jordan Case, Scott Hall,

to name a couple of QB's that turned out pretty darn good.

Coaches review game film, review open receivers, receivers that were covered, and other options on the play with the QB's.

The coaches break down game film, then review and teach the players/QB's on how to make the play work better.

In practice, the Coaches, QB's, and WR's work on the missed pass opportunities, and passing routes, to improve their play for the next game.

Dork, call up Coach Canales yourself and tell Coach Canales how you can coach QB's, and explain that Greer can not get away with JUCO ball at the D1 level.

Tell Coach Canales that Greer needs to make pass completions to open up the play book. Get that point in Canales's head first, then Greer's head second.

I am sure Coach Canales would appreciate your personal input on how you can coach QB's and WR's.

Like i said, you and other MG arm chair coaches, should call up coach Canales direct. Give Canales your what for about Greer, and your advice on coaching QB's. When you call up Canales, you should also call Coach Mac too. Tell coach Mac how good you are at evaluating QB's and coaching QB's.

Tell Coach Mac you should be the OC!

You should probably chill out a bit.

Like others have said - the stats for Greer don't look that great. And having watched him in two games, he's stared down the receivers. Regardless of the sport, one of the last things someone should ever do is telegraph their next move. Staring down a receiver is just asking for a pass to be knocked away or worse yet, an interception. Which, that's exactly what happened to Greer at UT. It could very well have happened against SMU.

It doesn't take a great deal of coaching experience to understand that:

A.) passing has a higher likelihood of turnovers

B.) telegraphing a pass is a bad idea

That being the case, it's not really the coaches I'm worried about. They're adjusting for what they're seeing on tape and in practice. They're trying to get the best result. Whether or not I agree with them isn't the point of discussion.

The point of the discussion for me is, "Greer should clean up his passing technique since that will help our offensive game, and therefore, improve chances of winning."

I don't have to be a coach or a player to understand that.

Charlie NT 73 · September 9, 2014

The coaches are working with all of the QB's on improving their game.

I would be happy if DW could have more playing time. I just do not see that happening with Coach Mac.

Josh Greer is learning and learning fast. Josh is the Mean Greens best option at QB, and will be with the remaining games.

Like I said, call up Coach Mac to nick pick every move that Josh makes, good or bad.

Call up Coach Canales to tell him Josh stares the wrong way, can not throw a pass, can not read defenses, is too slow,

misses wide open receivers, has terrible foot work, cannot run, need to open up the offense, and that DW does wonders against beat down

Idaho and $MU in a mop up roll, therefore DW should be the starter every week not JG or AM.

If DW can out play JG, and AM, then start him. Lets see what he can do.

Coach Mac makes that decision, not message board know it alls.

pastorgrant · September 9, 2014

The coaches are working with all of the QB's on improving their game.

I would be happy if DW could have more playing time. I just do not see that happening with Coach Mac.

Josh Greer is learning and learning fast. Josh is the Mean Greens best option at QB, and will be with the remaining games.

Like I said, call up Coach Mac to nick pick every move that Josh makes, good or bad.

Call up Coach Canales to tell him Josh stares the wrong way, can not throw a pass, can not read defenses, is too slow,

misses wide open receivers, has terrible foot work, cannot run, need to open up the offense, and that DW does wonders against beat down

Idaho and $MU in a mop up roll, therefore DW should be the starter every week not JG or AM.

If DW can out play JG, and AM, then start him. Lets see what he can do.

Coach Mac makes that decision, not message board know it alls.

Thought this might cheer you up:

Ben Gooding · September 9, 2014

I'm not a know it all, unless you are referring to our offensive production on the field this year. Box Scores are public information. So are drive charts. Go look at them.

Cr1028 · September 9, 2014

This is why DW should start on Thursday...

Not including DW's only possession we had the ball 13 times. We started drives on SMU's 14, 31, 31, and 21. We started drives on our own 42, 44, 49, and 43. Eight of our 13 offensive possessions (excluding the one DW drive) we started our drive in stupid good field position. Our touchdown drives in this game (not including DW's poss) was of 14 and 21 yards. Our FG drives were of 31, 25, 26, 27, and 52 yards (which was the longest drive of the game not including DW's poss, 68 yards). With 5 takeaways we still managed to punt the ball FIVE times, of which all were 3 and outs except for one. The lonesome punt that wasn't 3 & out was a 7 play 28 yard drive. So when we had to start a drive in "normal" field position our only other 5 possessions, we punted. On DW's only drive he went 1 for 1 on 3rd down. Our other two QB's managed to go 5 for 15, 33% conversion (on the year 8 for 31 on 3rd down). Our 2 passing QB's of the game went 12-17 for 108 yards and had an average QB rating of 32.6. Our coaches trust these QB's so much more than DW that they ran the ball 55 times compared to 17 pass attempts. That's 76% rushing plays. That will NOT work against a competent defense, ever. Yes, it's easy for us to say that running the football was working, right? But was it really? Take away Erick Evans 53 yard td run in garbage time we had an average ypc of 3.5. This offense is concerning, very concerning. Offenses, even running ones, start and stop with the QB. Regardless of what people think of DW or what high regard you may hold Greer in, our best QB on this roster is a 3rd stringer. All of these numbers were against a pretty soft defense too. They have 2 guys on that D that brings the wood in Yenga and Mortes. The rest are pillow soft. I will probably get bashed for this post, but the numbers are right there. I didn't create them, I just typed them. GMG

Don't get me wrong, I think Dajon should get an opportunity to show what he can do. However, you contradict yourself above when you reference Evans' run as in garbage time yet you speak as if Dajon's drive wasn't. Dajon's drive was the drive with the Evans touchdown. Without that run, you are talking about a 15 yard drive, in garbage time.

We need to see what Dajon can with some meaningful stamps early in the game but that won't happen as long as he is in Mac's doghouse.

Ben Gooding · September 9, 2014

Don't get me wrong, I think Dajon should get an opportunity to show what he can do. However, you contradict yourself above when you reference Evans' run as in garbage time yet you speak as if Dajon's drive wasn't. Dajon's drive was the drive with the Evans touchdown. Without that run, you are talking about a 15 yard drive, in garbage time.

We need to see what Dajon can with some meaningful stamps early in the game but that won't happen as long as he is in Mac's doghouse.

Dajons garbage time didn't inflate our stats. That 53 yard td run did. Also, 1st and 20 with any other QB in the game, garbage time or not, would have more than likely resulted in a punt.

The only other time one of our QB's took advantage of even running the zone-read our QB fumbled. I'm not sugar coating DW, just pointing out statistics and my observations from them. We are all on the same team here and we all want W's. I am not a coach, but I do have realistic expectations of QB production and common sense.

greenminer · September 9, 2014

Too small a sample size, but he's definitely earned the right to another in-game look. I also want to see him sling it around a bit.

mgfan · September 9, 2014

The coaches are working with all of the QB's on improving their game.

I would be happy if DW could have more playing time. I just do not see that happening with Coach Mac.

Josh Greer is learning and learning fast. Josh is the Mean Greens best option at QB, and will be with the remaining games.

Like I said, call up Coach Mac to nick pick every move that Josh makes, good or bad.

Call up Coach Canales to tell him Josh stares the wrong way, can not throw a pass, can not read defenses, is too slow,

misses wide open receivers, has terrible foot work, cannot run, need to open up the offense, and that DW does wonders against beat down

Idaho and $MU in a mop up roll, therefore DW should be the starter every week not JG or AM.

If DW can out play JG, and AM, then start him. Lets see what he can do.

Coach Mac makes that decision, not message board know it alls.

ANDREW 2.0 football edition?

Cerebus · September 9, 2014

Continuing to go round and round on this discussion makes my brain hurt:

Mac has made his choice clear. Until we start losing there is no way that is going to change.

meangreanmick · September 9, 2014

I completely agree that all that matters is the W. My point is that you can't rely on your kicker to go 5 for 5 every game. We move the ball great between the 30's but then we stall out. If that trends keeps up it WILL comeback to bite us.

I enjoyed the hell out of Saturday, but looking back on it there are areas we still need to improve a lot.

There are areas the offense needs to improve, but some of the offensive results have been dictated by the game. SMU in particular, when Mac sees us get ahead early, get turnovers, and hold the other teams offense down, you can be sure he will take the offense into a shell and make sure they don't lose the game. When ahead he is going to run the ball, hold onto the ball and play it safe. If we had been behind against SMU, you would have seen more throws. If we blow someone out, its not going to be from airing the ball out. Its going to be because we had alot of turnovers, defensive scores and broke off some long runs.

UT, we fell so far behind and the passing game was so bad, he went into the shell to keep it from getting further out of hand once we fell way behind and he could see there was no way for us to come back.

Got5onIt · September 9, 2014

There are areas the offense needs to improve, but some of the offensive results have been dictated by the game. SMU in particular, when Mac sees us get ahead early, get turnovers, and hold the other teams offense down, you can be sure he will take the offense into a shell and make sure they don't lose the game. When ahead he is going to run the ball, hold onto the ball and play it safe. If we had been behind against SMU, you would have seen more throws. If we blow someone out, its not going to be from airing the ball out. Its going to be because we had alot of turnovers, defensive scores and broke off some long runs.

UT, we fell so far behind and the passing game was so bad, he went into the shell to keep it from getting further out of hand once we fell way behind and he could see there was no way for us to come back.

This offense isn't built for comebacks. It's built to protect small leads in close games. Old school, smash mouth football.

FirefightnRick · September 9, 2014

There is no room for error in this kind of football. We are playing this kind of football because the talent level at the QB position. In our 2 games at this point our 2 QB's are 15-34 123 yds 0 TD 4 INT, QBR 16.3, negative 52 yards rushing (-33 yards if you count DW's 19 yd run v SMU), 14 punts. Rushing the football 76% of the time will not win many games, neither will these numbers at QB. Rock and a hard spot is the saying I think.

There's plenty of room because the QB isn't asked to do too much. We just can't afford to get too far behind. Although we spotted Rice a lead and came back.

Still, this is a ball control system of stopping the run, running the ball and playing damn good special teams and defense. It's designed to NOT allow the opponent to have the ball enough and in field position to get a lead.

It's a Mercury Marquis, not a Ford Mustang.

Rick

Ben Gooding · September 9, 2014

In error I mean missed assignments on ST's and defense. Reason being, our offense. I understand the offensive philosophy, and that philosophy puts a lot of pressure on ST and defense.

Got5onIt · September 9, 2014

In error I mean missed assignments on ST's and defense. Reason being, our offense. I understand the offensive philosophy, and that philosophy puts a lot of pressure on ST and defense.

Mac built the program in that way.

You have to give him credit for sticking to his philosophy. All the pressure to win is on those 2 phases of the game. Offense is an after thought in this system.

How does the saying go, 5 things can happen when you go to pass the ball and 4 of them are bad. Mac is cut from this cloth.

Every QB to play here as long as Mac is here will be DT v2.XXXXXXX. You can see it in Greer. DW and even MiniMac are out of place in this system. Big QBs that can stand in the pocket and take a hit throwing a playaction pass. Runnning plays 70% of the time. This will never change....

Edited September 9, 2014 by Got5onIt

Ben Gooding · September 9, 2014

The debate here was never really about philosophy. Pro Greer fans pointed to philosophy to provide an excuse for 2 bad offensive performances. And yes, our performance against SMU on offense was still relatively inept. Even with the philosophy in place 200/200 yards gained is ideal. We were 250/100, which will win games if we can consistently flirt with 250 yds rushing. That's the $ question, can we keep that up facing 8-9 man fronts bc they are coming. Then when they come can Greer stand in there and deliver. I'm not so sure, but I hope so. GMG

Got5onIt · September 9, 2014

The debate here was never really about philosophy. Pro Greer fans pointed to philosophy to provide an excuse for 2 bad offensive performances. And yes, our performance against SMU on offense was still relatively inept. Even with the philosophy in place 200/200 yards gained is ideal. We were 250/100, which will win games if we can consistently flirt with 250 yds rushing. That's the $ question, can we keep that up facing 8-9 man fronts bc they are coming. Then when they come can Greer stand in there and deliver. I'm not so sure, but I hope so. GMG

I'm with you. He's been underwhelming so far.

UNT90 · September 9, 2014

The coaches are working with all of the QB's on improving their game.
I would be happy if DW could have more playing time. I just do not see that happening with Coach Mac.

Josh Greer is learning and learning fast. Josh is the Mean Greens best option at QB, and will be with the remaining games.

Like I said, call up Coach Mac to nick pick every move that Josh makes, good or bad.

Call up Coach Canales to tell him Josh stares the wrong way, can not throw a pass, can not read defenses, is too slow,
misses wide open receivers, has terrible foot work, cannot run, need to open up the offense, and that DW does wonders against beat down
Idaho and $MU in a mop up roll, therefore DW should be the starter every week not JG or AM.

If DW can out play JG, and AM, then start him. Lets see what he can do.
Coach Mac makes that decision, not message board know it alls.

It's a UNT fan board. You really think we aren't going to debate QBs on here after performances in the 1st two games?

And people, please don't waste DMac's or Canales's time by calling their office number. That's just, well, dumb.

Football season means football talk. Get used to it.

UNT90 · September 9, 2014

The debate here was never really about philosophy. Pro Greer fans pointed to philosophy to provide an excuse for 2 bad offensive performances. And yes, our performance against SMU on offense was still relatively inept. Even with the philosophy in place 200/200 yards gained is ideal. We were 250/100, which will win games if we can consistently flirt with 250 yds rushing. That's the $ question, can we keep that up facing 8-9 man fronts bc they are coming. Then when they come can Greer stand in there and deliver. I'm not so sure, but I hope so. GMG

When did you become all reasonable and stuff. So proud.

There will come a game, quite possibly on Thursday (there already was one in Austin, but people will just say we were out talented), when our opponent will sell out against the run and we will be forced to beat them with the pass.

Those days were frequent last year. We won most and lost some. What will happen this year? Can we win these games? Do we have a QB capable of keeping defenses honest?

We still don't know. And that is the point, people!

You can say this is "Mac's way" and that we want to put pressure on the defense and special teams. Problem is if your offense can't function efficiently in both phases of the game, it is going to be hard to win football games.

SMU was an anomaly. We may not get 5 TOs again this year. I doubt we play another team whose coach has checked out mentally.

We need to be able to function in both phases of the game on offense. Right now we can't.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 9, 2014

THIS JUST IN...

...BROCK BERGLUND STILL HASN'T ATTEMPTED A PASS IN A COLLEGE FOOTBALL GAME:

http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/ci_26487573/sean-rubalcaba-off-good-start-unc-bears-starting

GrandGreen · September 9, 2014

I will guarantee you it does not matter one bit, whoever quarterbacks for NT, he will be criticized after most of their games. The proof is after Meager passed for over 600 yards against SMU, there were quite a few complaining he lost the game with his bad throws. Yes, out of about 60 passes; he had some bad throws.

I hope another QB has a game close to Meagers, because NT now has a defense and a victory would be insured. Of course, imagining Mac allowing that much passing would only be a dream.

FirefightnRick · September 11, 2014

The debate here was never really about philosophy. Pro Greer fans pointed to philosophy to provide an excuse for 2 bad offensive performances. And yes, our performance against SMU on offense was still relatively inept. Even with the philosophy in place 200/200 yards gained is ideal. We were 250/100, which will win games if we can consistently flirt with 250 yds rushing. That's the $ question, can we keep that up facing 8-9 man fronts bc they are coming. Then when they come can Greer stand in there and deliver. I'm not so sure, but I hope so. GMG

I'm not defending Greer and am certainly not making an excuse, I'm simply telling it like it is. The philosophy is to run the ball, stop the run and play great D and ST. Doesn't matter who is handing it off and making throws. We won't ask the QB's to win the game. And as long as people yearn for Teddy Bridgewater to show up their gonna be dissapointed cause it ain't happening. Don't worry about the 8-9 man fronts till it happens, because they're gonna happen and at the end of he day, whether we respond to them positively or negatively, the philosophy will remain the same.

I'll take inept and a win any day.

Rick

Edited September 11, 2014 by FirefightnRick