McCarney quote on QB play, what does it tell us?

GangGreen · August 14, 2014

We may not see 30 passes combined by both teams in this game. Mac is not going to "open it up" against UT with an unproven QB in the 1st game of the season.
Simply not going to happen.

Never know. In our "body bag" games under Mac, here are the number of passes attempted per game:

Georgia - 41

LSU - 21

Kansas St. - 28

Alabama - 31

BillySee58 · August 14, 2014

Really? Nick Foles runs around with the ball the way some here think Brock Berglund could...or Dajon Williams can/should?

Looks to me like he's more of a passer: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FoleNi00.htm

And, you are correct about Chip Kelly - no national title. And, no Super Bowl or playoff win in the NFL.

Gee, I can't figure out why these teams who take care of the ball and play tough defense win the championships, can you? Trent Dilfer with a Super Bowl ring, but not Michael Vick? I just don't understand it.

I can't believe I'm falling into a classic TFLF troll trap, but Foles was 11th in the NFL in qb rushing yards and 6th in qb rushing touchdowns, despite not being the starter from week 1. He's not a great runner, but he does enough for the system to still work.

But yeah, believe it or not there are mobile qbs winning championships. It's almost as if multiple approaches can work.

Cerebus · August 14, 2014

So does anyone doubt my math anymore?

Mac = DD + Better Sense of Public Relations

The Fake Lonnie Finch · August 14, 2014

I can't believe I'm falling into a classic TFLF troll trap, but Foles was 11th in the NFL in qb rushing yards and 6th in qb rushing touchdowns, despite not being the starter from week 1. He's not a great runner, but he does enough for the system to still work.
But yeah, believe it or not there are mobile qbs winning championships. It's almost as if multiple approaches can work.

And, so, people here are complaining about McCarney's/Canales' approach. Why again? A 9-4 season wasn't good enough after eight years of losing?

I'm waiting on the We're-Missing-The-Boat-By-Not-Just-Playing-Who-The-Fans-Believe-Is-The-"Most Athletic/Running"-QB faction to tell us how Brock would have led us to a 13-0 record. Or, in the alternative, that throwing in Dajon as a true freshman would have produced a better record.

It's not enough, you see, for many here to be happy that McCarney (and Canales) pulled this thing out of the ditch and had us on the brink of 10 wins within three seasons. We're not doing it in the style they prefer.

And, so, therefore, you get the endless - and, pointless - QB threads all the time. And, it's the people who love UNT's all-time leading receiver, Johnny Quinn, who played in Darrell Dickey's "boring offense," who seem to yowl the loudest about wanting a more athletic QB.

All of the complaining about Dickey and McCarney, and their judgements regarding QBs and offense, when one produced the school's top wide receiver and the other produced the school's top quarterback...crazy.

Two of the school's three bowl win from Dickey and McCarney...the two coaches we bash regarding offense. I'll have to stop by the UNT football trophy case to see how many championships and bowl games were amassed by the more exciting offenses that coaches not named Dickey or McCarney blessed us with.

Edited August 14, 2014 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

VideoEagle · August 14, 2014

That isn't Fran Tarkington...

Fran "Tarkington" is the name you get when you don't re-read before clicking the "post" button.

UNT90 · August 14, 2014

Never know. In our "body bag" games under Mac, here are the number of passes attempted per game:

Georgia - 41
LSU - 21
Kansas St. - 28
Alabama - 31

With an experienced QB.

There will be very very very very few passes that travel over 10 yards downfield in the air vs Texas.

At least when UNT is on offense.

Mark it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by UNT90

GOMG2013 · August 14, 2014

Im not sure how we got on the discussion of exciting vs boring offenses...

The issue on this site has been the playcalling, predicatability, and being conservative.

I havent seen many comments about changing the style of play.

We are a running team. We line up in the spread, a run a zone read. Most zone read offenses has a qb that is

A threat to run. last season we ran it with a slow qb, and won in spite if it.

I personally dont care what plays or system we use, but at least consider the talent you have. If DTs strength is the long ball, then take some shots downfield then.

We already know that Mac wants to run the ball. Its a safe bet that in the first half we are going to play conservative and run, run, pass. If that is the case, go out and get a great running qb then. Why go out abd get Greer? Why do we have means? Even Dajon. Why? We are only going to throw when nessessary. May as well get a qb capable of 700-1000 yards rushing.

UNT90 · August 14, 2014

And, so, people here are complaining about McCarney's/Canales' approach. Why again? A 9-4 season wasn't good enough after eight years of losing?

I'm waiting on the We're-Missing-The-Boat-By-Not-Just-Playing-Who-The-Fans-Believe-Is-The-"Most Athletic/Running"-QB faction to tell us how Brock would have led us to a 13-0 record. Or, in the alternative, that throwing in Dajon as a true freshman would have produced a better record.
It's not enough, you see, for many here to be happy that McCarney (and Canales) pulled this thing out of the ditch and had us on the brink of 10 wins within three seasons. We're not doing it in the style they prefer.

And, so, therefore, you get the endless - and, pointless - QB threads all the time. And, it's the people who love UNT's all-time leading receiver, Johnny Quinn, who played in Darrell Dickey's "boring offense," who seem to yowl the loudest about wanting a more athletic QB.

All of the complaining about Dickey and McCarney, and their judgements regarding QBs and offense, when one produced the school's top wide receiver and the other produced the school's top quarterback...crazy.

Two of the school's three bowl win from Dickey and McCarney...the two coaches we bash regarding offense. I'll have to stop by the UNT football trophy case to see how many championships and bowl games were amassed by the more exciting offenses that coaches not named Dickey or McCarney blessed us with.

Could have possibly been 10 wins if we had changed corners sooner (like before the Ohio game).

I know it's the way he does things, but it doesn't mean he is right all of the time. Football Jesus resides in South Bend, not Denton.

And it's a message board, so we pick at things we think could be better.

No matter who you are or what you do, if you aren't trying to get better, you have taken the first step toward failure.

Get it?

Edited August 14, 2014 by UNT90

TIgreen01 · August 14, 2014

With an experienced QB.
There will be very very very very few passes that travel over 10 yards downfield in the air vs Texas.
At least when UNT is on offense.
Mark it.

Um, Derek Thompson was in his first full season as a starter in the game against Bama. He had a couple of warm-ups (er, blow-out losses) leading up to that game that year.

What I've seen from Canales, since he's been at UNT, is a guy who seems to prepare a much more creative offensive gameplan against the big P5 schools he's faced.

Derek was in his third year on campus. McNulty is in his third year on campus. I think he's experienced enough.

UNT90 · August 14, 2014

Um, Derek Thompson was in his first full season as a starter in the game against Bama. He had a couple of warm-ups (er, blow-out losses) leading up to that game that year.

What I've seen from Canales, since he's been at UNT, is a guy who seems to prepare a much more creative offensive gameplan against the big P5 schools he's faced.

Derek was in his third year on campus. McNulty is in his third year on campus. I think he's experienced enough.

Derek had two previous games that year and one or 2 starts before getting hurt the previous year (CBS sports stats show him participating in 6 games that year, but I swore he went out earlier than that).

McNulty has one terrible start 2 years ago vs Tulsa, and that's it.

Apples and oranges.

Just wait and see. And, by the way, I don't disagree with that strategy.

And that isn't even including DT's 378 QB rating as a freshman!

Edited August 14, 2014 by UNT90

untjim1995 · August 14, 2014

So does anyone doubt my math anymore?

Mac = DD + Better Sense of Public Relations

Basically, they are the exact same as football coaching philospohy goes. And at a school like ours, that philosophy has worked pretty well when we have the lines and the running game to do it.

But McCarney looks and acts the part with the fanbase, media, and recruits. He is someone you want to be around because of his infectious personality. Dickey could never come close to doing that with even one of those groups.

Cerebus · August 14, 2014

But McCarney looks and acts the part with the fanbase, media, and recruits. He is someone you want to be around because of his infectious personality. Dickey could never come close to doing that with even one of those groups.

I disagree about recruits. I've posted before how Dickey brought in more DaMN State Top 100s than anyone else. JaMario wasn't someone who slipped through the cracks, he was a state top 30, the highest recruit I can find on record for us. He turned down an offer to Colorado and then ran all over them his first game.

I agree about the fanbase and media. Dickey was not good with those groups because he did not think it was important to be friendly with those groups. He never learned that modern college coaches HAVE to get those groups on their side.

Mac does understand that. He understands the PR angle.

Mean Green 93-98 · August 14, 2014

Dickey hit on some great recruits in 2001-02. But by '05-'06, his recruiting was far from stellar. He met needs, and signed some who turned out to be nice players. But he wasn't winning many if any major recruiting battles by that point. Even the class of 2004 was pretty much Jamario and nothing else, as far as winning recruiting battles.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Mean Green 93-98

NorthTexan95 · August 14, 2014

Let’s look at the last three money games we’ve played.

2011 against Alabama: we have 32 rushes / 31 passing attempts

2012 against LSU: we have 35 rushes / 21 passing attempts though they are close through 3 quarters

2013 against Georgia: we have 25 rushes / 41 passes. We slightly threw more than we ran in every quarter, though it was much wider gap in the 4^th quarter.

What do I see from this?

1. Mac will throw the ball with a young quarterback

2. Mac wants a balanced attacked

3. If the passing game is working he’ll go with it.

Mac will have whoever is at quarterback throwing the ball. He’ll keep balanced attack each quarter for the first three quarters (even when the running game isn’t working at all: see Georgia game).

There’s nothing here that we didn’t know. But if you’re expecting us to run the ball 20 times and throw it 5 times in the first half at Texas, you’re going to be disappointed. That will only happen if we are getting 6 yards per carry or something weird like that.

untjim1995 · August 14, 2014

Dickey hit on some great recruits in 2001-02. But by '05-'06, his recruiting was far from stellar. He met needs, and signed some who turned out to be nice players. But he wasn't winning many if any major recruiting battles by that point. Even the class of 2004 was pretty much Jamario and nothing else, as far as winning recruiting battles.

I think Dickey thought he was gonna be gone for brighter pastures after 2003, but no one outside of the SBC really felt that impressed by his championship teams. And, to be truthful, the one in 2001 and the one in 2004 were a couple of notches below the 2002 and 2003 teams, which were very good. That 2002 team basically lost to a Top 5 team in Texas 27-0, lost to a damn good TCU team 16-10 in FW, and somehow defied the laws of winning by losing at Arizona, 13-9. When we beat a very good Cincy team in the NO Bowl, then followed it up with a very good team in 2003, I couldn't believe Dickey didn't even get a sniff anywhere up the ladder in college football. Maybe the personality thing had started to make its way around to other ADs across the country by then, but I know I was surprised he was still our coach in 2004 and before the 2005 season.

Cerebus · August 14, 2014

I think Dickey thought he was gonna ...

Dickey continued to hemorrhage assistant coaches and then started suffering his own serious medical problems. I think that really slowed the program down.

North Texas' financial commitment to football is in an entirely different world now, compared to the Dickey years.

Mac gets $725,000 guaranteed with another $125,000 in possible incentives. Dickey highest salary here was $214,000. Even more importantly the assistant coaches salary pool, which was Dickey's #1 complaint his entire time here, has just about quadrupled.

ETA: Dickey made more as the OC at Memphis (245K) than he did here as the head coach.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Cerebus

UNT90 · August 14, 2014

Let’s look at the last three money games we’ve played.

2011 against Alabama: we have 32 rushes / 31 passing attempts

2012 against LSU: we have 35 rushes / 21 passing attempts though they are close through 3 quarters

2013 against Georgia: we have 25 rushes / 41 passes. We slightly threw more than we ran in every quarter, though it was much wider gap in the 4^th quarter.

What do I see from this?

1. Mac will throw the ball with a young quarterback

2. Mac wants a balanced attacked

3. If the passing game is working he’ll go with it.

Mac will have whoever is at quarterback throwing the ball. He’ll keep balanced attack each quarter for the first three quarters (even when the running game isn’t working at all: see Georgia game).

There’s nothing here that we didn’t know. But if you’re expecting us to run the ball 20 times and throw it 5 times in the first half at Texas, you’re going to be disappointed. That will only happen if we are getting 6 yards per carry or something weird like that.

All games we were down in late.

If that happens at UT, it won't be a good thing.

And again, all of these games had a somewhat experienced QB. We have a QB who, at best, has only started one college game (with a bad performance in that game) that occurred 2 years ago. And this game is at UT, with 100K in the stands. Mac has no idea what he has at QB right now.

I would expect less than 5 downfield passes (where the ball travels more than 10 yards downfield in the air) the entire game.

We shall see.

Mean Green 93-98 · August 14, 2014

North Texas' financial commitment to football is in an entirely different world now, compared to the Dickey years.

No doubt. The same could be said about many of our peers, as well. Look at what schools like Lousiana-Lafayette, Arkansas State, and others are paying their coaches now versus then. Back in Dickey's day, we (at $266k for Dickey) were paying salaries quite a bit more than ULL ($194k) or ASU ($189k). But now Hudspeth is making $950k and ASU was paying Malzahn at least $800k a couple of years ago (they're paying a little less than Coach Mac for their new, inexperienced, head coach).

Here is the database showing Sun Belt HC salaries in '06: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/graphics/coaches_contracts/flash.htm

Edited August 14, 2014 by Mean Green 93-98

NorthTexan95 · August 14, 2014

All games we were down in late.

If that happens at UT, it won't be a good thing.

And again, all of these games had a somewhat experienced QB. We have a QB who, at best, has only started one college game (with a bad performance in that game) that occurred 2 years ago. And this game is at UT, with 100K in the stands. Mac has no idea what he has at QB right now.

I would expect less than 5 downfield passes (where the ball travels more than 10 yards downfield in the air) the entire game.

We shall see.

Wait ... you're saying that if we're losing late in the game against Texas that it'll be a bad thing? Shocking ...

DT had 3 games of experience going into Alabama. It's not the same as the first game of the year but it's not that far off.

In each of the three games noted above our pass/run balance was basically equal through three quarters.

I'm not positive we'll have 5 passes "down field" since our passing game is a shorter, quicker passing attack. I do expect us to have a balanced run/pass ratio for most of the game.

LongJim · August 14, 2014

I would expect less than 5 downfield passes (where the ball travels more than 10 yards downfield in the air) the entire game.

We shall see.

I think you will see a few shots long. But I agree--probably won't be much midrange stuff. Dink and dunk and try to hit the long ball.

UNT90 · August 14, 2014

Wait ... you're saying that if we're losing late in the game against Texas that it'll be a bad thing? Shocking ...

DT had 3 games of experience going into Alabama. It's not the same as the first game of the year but it's not that far off.

In each of the three games noted above our pass/run balance was basically equal through three quarters.

I'm not positive we'll have 5 passes "down field" since our passing game is a shorter, quicker passing attack. I do expect us to have a balanced run/pass ratio for most of the game.

Bubble screens should be counted as runs.

We shall see.

pastorgrant · August 14, 2014

I think you will see a few shots long. But I agree--probably won't be much midrange stuff. Dink and dunk and try to hit the long ball.

This is what I expect too.

GMG24 · August 14, 2014

Our play action game throws several routes more than 10 yards down field between bubbles,flares, and PA I am sure that's about all we will see. I could see us using our shotgun zone running scheme for the PA type stuff, give the QB an extra half second to set and throw without running backwards. It will allow him whoever him is to scan during the PA set and deliver to whichever receiver (Goree) runs right by their corners. strike up the.... Oh wait never mind just have some fun and jump in the air with some teammates.