UNT QB Derek Thompson is named Plantiff in new NCAA lawsuit?

[oldguystudent]

Where's Eric Capper?

[Green P1]

Leadership.

[Cr1028]

I'm fine with what he is doing. These programs/conferences are receiving HUGE tv deals. People that attend the games are typically alumni and fans of the program. The tv viewers are typically just looking for excitement (Manziel, Jameis, Clowney). These guys should get a bigger piece of the pie. If college football was still about student athletes instead of money, I could see your point but college football has become all about cash and the players on the whole receive way less than they could/should on the open market. If the NFL had a minor league system to compete with college football then this lawsuit would be useless but because college football has no competition for these players to jump to, college football does have antitrust issues.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Here is an article excerpt from ESPN, explaining the lawsuit.

"In other developments Monday, the NCAA and its major college conferences have been sued by a Minneapolis law firm which claims they have violated antitrust laws by pocketing billions of dollars that student-athletes helped generate. The suit, as first reported by the Minneapolis Star Tribune, contends that playing revenue-generating sports such as college football and basketball is a full-time job, but scholarships fall short of accounting for the full cost of school attendance.

The Star Tribune says the suit seeks to be certified as a class-action suit and says Derek Thompson, a member of the University of North Texas football team from 2009 to 2013, is the plaintiff."

Read more: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11338781/ncaa-seeks-clarification-ed-obannon-ruling

Odd.

[southsideguy]

So if UNT did not give DT a scholarship what would he have done differently? Would DT have gone to college or worked at the local feed store? He got a full scholarship that allowed him to have career after his football days were over.

The lawyers are going to kill college sports, that are only interested in the large class action suit that gets them paid and the plaintiffs will get a coupon to McDonalds. I have lost all respect i had for DT. If this is the highest profile player they could find to bring this law suit you wonder how good of case do they have? Not a slam on DT but a bigger name would bring more focus to the case.

[Army of Dad]

Where's Eric Capper?

Checking with the lawyers before he rips fans?

[TIgreen01]

So if UNT did not give DT a scholarship what would he have done differently? Would DT have gone to college or worked at the local feed store? He got a full scholarship that allowed him to have career after his football days were over.

The lawyers are going to kill college sports, that are only interested in the large class action suit that gets them paid and the plaintiffs will get a coupon to McDonalds. I have lost all respect i had for DT. If this is the highest profile player they could find to bring this law suit you wonder how good of case do they have? Not a slam on DT but a bigger name would bring more focus to the case.

I was with you, up until the bolded sentence....

Look, there is blood in the water after the O'Bannon decision. The lawyers with no conscience smell money.

[BillySee58]

Checking with the lawyers before he rips fans?

Lol

Here's my view on this whole pay for play thing.

There are two major arguments made by athletes as far as getting paid.

1. The "Johnny Manziel" argument. The argument by the select few athletes at big, revenue generating schools like who you see on TV every Saturday wherever you are. The athletes who make their schools much more money than their scholarship and room and board. Guys who want to be paid because they don't believe it's fair for them and their teammates to only get $50-$100K in scholarships over their time in college. Because they realistically make their school millions. Those guys are likely going to be the reason NCAA athletes end up getting paid.

2. The "I can't have a job" argument. Athletes who, individually, either make their school marginally more money than their scholarships (like our program), make just about enough money as they earn in scholarships, or play in a sport where their school loses money off having that program (low attendance sports and almost all female sports). These kids want to be paid not because of the injustice of how much profit they're actually generating for the school, but because they are hurting on cash and can't work because of the amount of practice time their sport takes up.

The schools is paying for their books, tuition, housing, meals, and snacks. All the essentials. If they need money after that either their parents should help out, if the parents can't help out they should be able to apply for a grant, or take out a loan.

With all the essentials paid for, if a kid in that range where the parents make too much money for a grant but can't help their kid out were to take out a $5000 loan he'd have money to last him throughout college. With all meals paid for and housing paid for, $5000 to go buy a video game here or go out to eat at a restaurant with friends there should be able to last a kid throughout college.

To have a degree and graduate college under $10K in debt is very difficult. Almost unheard of if your parents can't help you out at all (like the example mentioned) yet make too much money for grants. Even for college kids who have good jobs. Rent, books, and food are expensive, so to have money left over to pay a significant portion of their tuition is just asking too much.

I think the NCAA should start some sort of loan and grant program with academic incentives. For example, with a kid gets no help from their parents yet they make too much money to allow their student-athlete child to qualify for a grant, that kid takes out a $5000 loan.

If that kid graduates, part of the loan is forgiven. If a kid makes Dean's list or the conference honor roll, part of the loan is forgiven. If the kids put in the work in the classroom he would graduate with a very minimal debt, considering he had no financial help from his parents. And he would've been able to live comfortably throughout college and have that and education paid for. That just doesn't account for if guys like Johnny Manziel want to make the money they make for their school.

DT, and any of our players, most likely falls under category 2. DT got 5 years worth of a scholarship, plus room and board paid for, plus meal plan. Close to $70K worth of value. When you factor in that football players stay almost year round, therefore have their room and board paid for 10-11 months. It'll be interesting to see if his name personally generated our school much more than $70K in revenue. It's possible, since he was a 3-year starter at qb. Edited August 12, 2014 by BillySee58

[Travis]

How much money did the NCAA get off of DT's likeness? I mean, really??

[TheTastyGreek]

Are his lawyers Top 5 in any categories?

[Side Show Joe]

I'm trying to restrain myself regarding this matter, because I just don't have a good grasp of the issue. But, it certainly isn't something any of us expected to to read. I don't know why DT did this, or what he hopes to gain. I hope he addresses the issue, but I'm certain his lawyers won't let him. I don't know why he chose to sue in Minnisota. Although it doesn't look good, I realy need to have some of these question answered before I allow myself to get too mad. I have to remember, North Texas is not being sued... so far.

[Censored by Laurie]

How people continue to side with the NCAA in the face of the massive amounts of revenue they generate...as a non-profit...and would rather villainize those who would seek what they deem as fair compensation than have an honest conversation about the financials in college sports is beyond me.

[Ben Gooding]

Lol

Here's my view on this whole pay for play thing.

DT, and any of our players, most likely falls under category 2. DT got 5 years worth of a scholarship, plus room and board paid for, plus meal plan. Close to $70K worth of value. When you factor in that football players stay almost year round, therefore have their room and board paid for 10-11 months. It'll be interesting to see if his name personally generated our school much more than $70K in revenue. It's possible, since he was a 3-year starter at qb.

Its far more than 70k. Tuition alone over a 4 year span (8 semesters) is worth 45k. I know DT attended summer school and I know he received his masters. So we're talking more upwards around 100k alone just for tuition. Then meal plan, which I think the highest value meal plan is 24 meals a week and I may be mistaking, but my memory is telling me that's $1100 a semester, of which he recieved practically 5 straight years of. So that's 3k a year, give or take. Board, 5k a semester.

100k- tuition

15k (more or less due to summer school)- meal plan

50k (more or less due to summer school)- board

Also, these numbers are low considering that North Texas is a fairly inexpensive school. Go find another student that pulled loans for a masters somewhere else and lived on credit cards and a BS "job" to "work their way through college." They will be having to pay 2-3-400 a month for the next 5-10-15 years. The people backing these greedy lawyers and players are the ones that I don't get.

The audacity he has is disappointing. Not only is he dragging his (apparently worthless) name through the mud, he's dragging North Texas' brand with him.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Ben Gooding

[Cr1028]

Lol

Here's my view on this whole pay for play thing.

DT, and any of our players, most likely falls under category 2. DT got 5 years worth of a scholarship, plus room and board paid for, plus meal plan. Close to $70K worth of value. When you factor in that football players stay almost year round, therefore have their room and board paid for 10-11 months. It'll be interesting to see if his name personally generated our school much more than $70K in revenue. It's possible, since he was a 3-year starter at qb.

$70k over a 5 year period is less than minimum wage. The time and effort these kids put in is worth way more than minimum wage.

If you were a tradesman and only one company(NCAA) was allowed to hire you for your first 4 years of adulthood, they told you that you would earn a set salary regardless of how well the company did or how well you did on a personal level, and that you could not earn any income outside of that set 4 year amount, you would not be happy. Additionally, if you decided to transfer to a different division within the company(another fbs school), you would have to have a year without pay. Scholarships are nice but non-athlete scholarship recipients get to work outside jobs and don't bring a fraction of the revenue or recognition that the football players on the whole do.

[TheTastyGreek]

How people continue to side with the NCAA in the face of the massive amounts of revenue they generate...as a non-profit...and would rather villainize those who would seek what they deem as fair compensation than have an honest conversation about the financials in college sports is beyond me.

Yup. Last year was great, but I never rooted harder for DT to win anything than I will for him to be one of the guys like Ed O'Bannon who winds up bringing this terrible system to a legal end.

[Censored by Laurie]

Yup. Last year was great, but I never rooted harder for DT to win anything than I will for him to be one of the guys like Ed O'Bannon who winds up bringing this terrible system to a legal end.

I mean, mind you, should DT actually profit from the settlement, which I doubt, he should at the very least reimburse UNT for the materials and labor costs that went into repairing the Apogee end-zone wall following the Troy game...but aside from that, I'm right there with you.

[MeanGreenTexan]

$70k over a 5 year period is less than minimum wage. The time and effort these kids put in is worth way more than minimum wage.

If you were a tradesman and only one company(NCAA) was allowed to hire you for your first 4 years of adulthood, they told you that you would earn a set salary regardless of how well the company did or how well you did on a personal level, and that you could not earn any income outside of that set 4 year amount, you would not be happy. Additionally, if you decided to transfer to a different division within the company(another fbs school), you would have to have a year without pay. Scholarships are nice but non-athlete scholarship recipients get to work outside jobs and don't bring a fraction of the revenue or recognition that the football players on the whole do.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. Well, maybe some old-school minds are, but those minds will be hard to change anyway.

Where this stuff gets sticky is when you look at, say, UNT ladies soccer. They work just as hard. They are just as deserving of any stipend a football player would get. Are they going to get the stipends too? Or, is this just for revenue-generating sports (football, m-basketball, & w-basketball for the likes of Tennessee & UConn)? Where does the money trail end, and where does the "deserving" student-athlete end? Do those two ends match?

Then, if you can agree on an even end somewhere, you look at schools like UT & the like who can spend as much as they want (and probably cascade it down to every student-athlete in the AD, regardless of sport, without blinking), VS what schools like UNT can spend/cascade down. Think about a school like Fresno State, or any other of the CA state schools who are already in serious financial peril. How are they going to justify spending extra money to keep pace?

Or, do you just customize the stipends? Give Jamies Winston $25k per semester since he's making FSU money hand-over-fist, but give the redshirted-freshman QB $0 since he didn't even see the field? Give Britney Griner an extra $25k per semester since she's so incredible, while all of her teammates get $500 per semester?

Also, $70k over a 5 year period is better than taking out loans and graduating with debt like the rest of the student body population (sans the trust fund kids)!

This is not a simple issue, at all. It's going to take years to fix, and there will probably be changes to accommodate, and keep the power with the powerful.

[Cr1028]

1.So if UNT did not give DT a scholarship what would he have done differently? Would DT have gone to college or worked at the local feed store? He got a full scholarship that allowed him to have career after his football days were over.

The lawyers are going to kill college sports, that are only interested in the large class action suit that gets them paid and the plaintiffs will get a coupon to McDonalds. I have lost all respect i had for DT.

2.If this is the highest profile player they could find to bring this law suit you wonder how good of case do they have? Not a slam on DT but a bigger name would bring more focus to the case.

1. My guess is he would've gone to Tarleton State, lived at home and commuted. Depending on Financial Aid would have $27k in loan debt if he didn't work, likely would have less than $10k in debt in he made $10/hr working 20hrs a week and contributed $2000 a semester to his tuition. With grants and working combined, would come out of Tarleton debt free without a bunch of goons telling him what a piss-poor bowl mvp quarterback he was who just happens to be in the top five of just about every quarterback measure on UNT's all-time list.

2. Perhaps he is one of the bigger names that graduated last year that is not playing professionally.

[H-towngreen]

Playing collegiate football is voluntary.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I don't think anyone is arguing that. Well, maybe some old-school minds are, but those minds will be hard to change anyway.

Where this stuff gets sticky is when you look at, say, UNT ladies soccer. They work just as hard. They are just as deserving of any stipend a football player would get. Are they going to get the stipends too? Or, is this just for revenue-generating sports (football, m-basketball, & w-basketball for the likes of Tennessee & UConn)? Where does the money trail end, and where does the "deserving" student-athlete end? Do those two ends match?

Then, if you can agree on an even end somewhere, you look at schools like UT & the like who can spend as much as they want (and probably cascade it down to every student-athlete in the AD, regardless of sport, without blinking), VS what schools like UNT can spend/cascade down. Think about a school like Fresno State, or any other of the CA state schools who are already in serious financial peril. How are they going to justify spending extra money to keep pace?

Or, do you just customize the stipends? Give Jamies Winston $25k per semester since he's making FSU money hand-over-fist, but give the redshirted-freshman QB $0 since he didn't even see the field? Give Britney Griner an extra $25k per semester since she's so incredible, while all of her teammates get $500 per semester?

Also, $70k over a 5 year period is better than taking out loans and graduating with debt like the rest of the student body population (sans the trust fund kids)!

This is not a simple issue, at all. It's going to take years to fix, and there will probably be changes to accommodate, and keep the power with the powerful.

+ a zillion.

[BillySee58]

I don't think anyone is arguing that. Well, maybe some old-school minds are, but those minds will be hard to change anyway.

Where this stuff gets sticky is when you look at, say, UNT ladies soccer. They work just as hard. They are just as deserving of any stipend a football player would get. Are they going to get the stipends too? Or, is this just for revenue-generating sports (football, m-basketball, & w-basketball for the likes of Tennessee & UConn)? Where does the money trail end, and where does the "deserving" student-athlete end? Do those two ends match?

Then, if you can agree on an even end somewhere, you look at schools like UT & the like who can spend as much as they want (and probably cascade it down to every student-athlete in the AD, regardless of sport, without blinking), VS what schools like UNT can spend/cascade down. Think about a school like Fresno State, or any other of the CA state schools who are already in serious financial peril. How are they going to justify spending extra money to keep pace?

Or, do you just customize the stipends? Give Jamies Winston $25k per semester since he's making FSU money hand-over-fist, but give the redshirted-freshman QB $0 since he didn't even see the field? Give Britney Griner an extra $25k per semester since she's so incredible, while all of her teammates get $500 per semester?

Also, $70k over a 5 year period is better than taking out loans and graduating with debt like the rest of the student body population (sans the trust fund kids)!

This is not a simple issue, at all. It's going to take years to fix, and there will probably be changes to accommodate, and keep the power with the powerful.

Spot on, MGT.

[Cr1028]

I don't think anyone is arguing that. Well, maybe some old-school minds are, but those minds will be hard to change anyway.

Where this stuff gets sticky is when you look at, say, UNT ladies soccer. They work just as hard. They are just as deserving of any stipend a football player would get. Are they going to get the stipends too? Or, is this just for revenue-generating sports (football, m-basketball, & w-basketball for the likes of Tennessee & UConn)? Where does the money trail end, and where does the "deserving" student-athlete end? Do those two ends match?

Then, if you can agree on an even end somewhere, you look at schools like UT & the like who can spend as much as they want (and probably cascade it down to every student-athlete in the AD, regardless of sport, without blinking), VS what schools like UNT can spend/cascade down. Think about a school like Fresno State, or any other of the CA state schools who are already in serious financial peril. How are they going to justify spending extra money to keep pace?

Or, do you just customize the stipends? Give Jamies Winston $25k per semester since he's making FSU money hand-over-fist, but give the redshirted-freshman QB $0 since he didn't even see the field? Give Britney Griner an extra $25k per semester since she's so incredible, while all of her teammates get $500 per semester?

Also, $70k over a 5 year period is better than taking out loans and graduating with debt like the rest of the student body population (sans the trust fund kids)!

This is not a simple issue, at all. It's going to take years to fix, and there will probably be changes to accommodate, and keep the power with the powerful.

I think it should be a revenue sharing deal. The money the football team brings in above expenses should be divided evenly among the players. I'm torn as to whether is should go to all players, scholarship players, or just players that saw the field.

Women's soccer should do the same and if the program loses money, no stipend and their scholarships are just a cost of doing business.

My problem is not with scholarships not being valuable enough compensation. My problem is with entities like ESPN and people like Steve Patterson commercializing the sport to the point of insanity. If these folks weren't trying to cash in on their cheap, no-compete, labor, I wouldn't be on DT's side in this.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Cr1028

[BillySee58]

I think it should be a revenue sharing deal. The money the football team brings in above expenses should be divided evenly among the players. I'm torn as to whether is should go to all players, scholarship players, or just players that saw the field.

Women's soccer should do the same and if the program loses money, no stipend and their scholarships are just a cost of doing business.

Then there's more injustice. Starters and star players would eventually complain and ask why their pay wasn't increasing and why the third-string junior, who puts minimal effort towards football and is just in it for a paycheck and an education, is getting paid the same as the stars. When one is clearly more responsible for the revenue being generated.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think it should be a revenue sharing deal. The money the football team brings in above expenses should be divided evenly among the players. I'm torn as to whether is should go to all players, scholarship players, or just players that saw the field.

Women's soccer should do the same and if the program loses money, no stipend and their scholarships are just a cost of doing business.

So "the time and effort these kids put in" actually has nothing whatsoever to do with it?

Just trying to be clear.

[Censored by Laurie]

Playing collegiate football is voluntary.

By strictest definitions, so is holding a job. I don't have to show up to work, but I do so because I feel that my take (pay, benefits, et al) is fair and befitting both my time and effort on the job and in keeping with success (read:profits) of my company.

The argument being made is that an athletic scholarship is not a reflective level of benefit to the amount of money being made at the recipient's expense.

Its far more than 70k. Tuition alone over a 4 year span (8 semesters) is worth 45k. I know DT attended summer school and I know he received his masters. So we're talking more upwards around 100k alone just for tuition. Then meal plan, which I think the highest value meal plan is 24 meals a week and I may be mistaking, but my memory is telling me that's $1100 a semester, of which he recieved practically 5 straight years of. So that's 3k a year, give or take. Board, 5k a semester.

100k- tuition

15k (more or less due to summer school)- meal plan

50k (more or less due to summer school)- board

Also, these numbers are low considering that North Texas is a fairly inexpensive school. Go find another student that pulled loans for a masters somewhere else and lived on credit cards and a BS "job" to "work their way through college." They will be having to pay 2-3-400 a month for the next 5-10-15 years. The people backing these greedy lawyers and players are the ones that I don't get.

The audacity he has is disappointing. Not only is he dragging his (apparently worthless) name through the mud, he's dragging North Texas' brand with him.

and I'm sure you were a classy champ and already tweeted this bold sentiment to Derek personally.

I worked multiple jobs while in school and took out a few thousand in student loans. I fail to see the comparison considering I did nothing that directly benefited the school nor its all-encompassing parent organization the NCAA.