DRC - 18.7% Reduction In UNT Athletics Budget

DeepGreen · July 29, 2014

Not good. UNT budget issues hitting home.

UNT is continuing to look at its financial situation in the wake of some difficulties over the last few months (and that might be putting it mildly). Our university writer Jenna Duncan picked up some budget figures for UNT at a meeting today that are of some interest when it comes to the athletics front.

read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2014/07/tuesday-afternoon-notes-unt-budgetary-figures.html/

Edited July 29, 2014 by Harry

greenminer · July 29, 2014

The timing of this is interesting considering all the chatter going on about our schedule woes.

Harry · July 29, 2014

You gotta think this is somehow related to the accounting error. The slides are available in Brett's article.

MeanGreenTexan · July 29, 2014

You gotta think this is somehow related to the accounting error. The slides are available in Brett's article.

UNT90 has mentioned this before, so the idea's not mine, but I think this is the excuse we could be fed if Tennessee or Iowa do not let us out of either game in 2015.

Cerebus · July 29, 2014

The timing of this is interesting considering all the chatter going on about our schedule woes.

Except those schedule contracts were signed well before we had any of these budget errors. How long has UNT90 been complaining about 2015? Since before Apogee opened?

You gotta think this is somehow related to the accounting error. The slides are available in Brett's article.

This is for sure related, these are the adjustments the new president demanded to get us in line with our actual revenue. This is why baseball is being delayed.

Jason Howeth · July 29, 2014

Where are the donors when you need them?

greenminer · July 29, 2014

Except those schedule contracts were signed well before we had any of these budget errors. How long has UNT90 been complaining about 2015? Since before Apogee opened?

I think most of us know that; I was speculating that someone from AD is grasping for straws and trying to save face.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 29, 2014

. . . part of the change is rooted in the entry fee UNT is paying to Conference USA. We mentioned in our summer series that UNT is about to make the third of four payments to cover the $2 million entry fee this August. That fee will soon be paid off. UNT won’t have to add it in the budget in the future.

That makes no sense. Wouldn't the entry fee payments be included in the budget total?

emmitt01 · July 29, 2014

Where are the donors when you need them?

It's not the donors that are the issue. That is the most tired excuse that we see trotted out year after year, and one that the AD loves because it shifts blame.

"We just don't have the big money donors like a T. Boone Pickens" is a great way to overlook the real issue. We have done a piss poor job in cultivating the $250, $500 and $1000 donors. All of the alumni that we have let walk away with no future contact, the ABYSMAL athletic department promotions that cater to a pre-established handful of donors and the general apathy around Bonnie Brae are the real culprits.

But let's keep blaming a lack of millionaires.

GMG24 · July 29, 2014

$250 donation - 4,000 donors

$500 donation - 2,000 donors

$1,000 donation - 1,000 donors

Amount of donors needed (per category) to reach $1,000,000.

We don't have 5-10,000 people who would donate 250?? Come on, I'm recently married and have loans and I am fixing to donate 250 for both my wife and I. Get with the program and our alumni association or whomever is responsible needs to get off their --- and do something.

untjim1995 · July 29, 2014

Interesting that the college of music sees a drop of 2.8%, while the college of arts and sciences gets a small increase to their budget. Yet athletics loses 18.7% of its budget in 2015. Music and Arts will always be the window to the University of North Texas, according to the BOR and Administration.

There isn't one other university in Texas at the FBS level that would have cut athletics by this much. And this is why you have such a disconnect between the university and its alums. Every other school uses football as their main advertising arm to connect to their alumni and their community. We use music and arts.

I'm sorry, but 40k people gathered to watch a UNT Football team play in a bowl game against UNLV on January 1st. That ain't the area to cut--unless you think that you can host a concert or recital or exhibit that can draw even close to that same amount of people and dollars. I may get tons of-1s because music and arts matters so much around here, but I, like a lot of guys, like football and basketball. Music and arts will never get my interest or my dollars ahead of athletics at UNT. There are a lot more UNT graduates like me from the past 35 years who have been so alienated by the lack of attention to athletics that we have paid that they simply have chosen to just follow UT, A&M, Tech, OU, as well as all the pro teams to choose from in DFW. That "opportunity" cost is why we are where we are now, still being on the outside of the major players in college athletics. And that's a damn shame, in my opinion.

UNT90 · July 29, 2014

Except those schedule contracts were signed well before we had any of these budget errors. How long has UNT90 been complaining about 2015? Since before Apogee opened?

.

Actually since 2012. You know, when we didn't know about any financial issues and still had only one home game, a game against an FCS opponent that we had to buy because our scheduling had been so messed up.

And you will now see the AD sell SMU in 2015 as an "alternate home game" and you will here the budget cut excuse again and again and again. RV will say "hey, not my fault. We have unexpected bills to pay."

But just remember, as Cerebus has so correctly pointed out, the scheduling disaster developed over years. Years when no one knew this crisis was coming.

Remember that when the excuses start.

Edited July 29, 2014 by UNT90

UNT90 · July 29, 2014

So the Athletic Department pays the price again, as always at UNT.

And we wonder why underperformance is accepted at UNT.

MeanGreenTexan · July 29, 2014

Interesting that the college of music sees a drop of 2.8%, while the college of arts and sciences gets a small increase to their budget. Yet athletics loses 18.7% of its budget in 2015. Music and Arts will always be the window to the University of North Texas, according to the BOR and Administration.

There isn't one other university in Texas at the FBS level that would have cut athletics by this much. And this is why you have such a disconnect between the university and its alums. Every other school uses football as their main advertising arm to connect to their alumni and their community. We use music and arts.

I'm sorry, but 40k people gathered to watch a UNT Football team play in a bowl game against UNLV on January 1st. That ain't the area to cut--unless you think that you can host a concert or recital or exhibit that can draw even close to that same amount of people and dollars. I may get tons of-1s because music and arts matters so much around here, but I, like a lot of guys, like football and basketball. Music and arts will never get my interest or my dollars ahead of athletics at UNT. There are a lot more UNT graduates like me from the past 35 years who have been so alienated by the lack of attention to athletics that we have paid that they simply have chosen to just follow UT, A&M, Tech, OU, as well as all the pro teams to choose from in DFW. That "opportunity" cost is why we are where we are now, still being on the outside of the major players in college athletics. And that's a damn shame, in my opinion.

Keep in mind, we're not just trying to win football games.

We're an Academic Institution on the road to Tier 1 status. The college of Arts & Sciences plays a very large role in that. Not much research funding in football, and apparently only Ernie Khuene and a handful of die-hards want to fund our b-ball 'research' project.

UNT90 · July 29, 2014

Keep in mind, we're not just trying to win football games.
We're an Academic Institution on the road to Tier 1 status. The college of Arts & Sciences plays a very large role in that. Not much research funding in football, and apparently only Ernie Khuene and a handful of die-hards want to fund our b-ball 'research' project.

Point is that athletics is ALWAYS dumped on at UNT. ALWAYS.

That is a major reason we have a piss poor endowment. Crappy athletic teams = No school spirit = no giving back.

And we still don't get this.

Don't discard the fact that other conferences that we want oh so desperately to enter will look at this decision and see exactly how little UNT values athletics and have a good laugh if we are ever brought up for membership.

Get ready for some D1AA football, people.

Edited July 29, 2014 by UNT90

untjim1995 · July 29, 2014

Keep in mind, we're not just trying to win football games.

We're an Academic Institution on the road to Tier 1 status. The college of Arts & Sciences plays a very large role in that. Not much research funding in football, and apparently only Ernie Khuene and a handful of die-hards want to fund our b-ball 'research' project.

So are Tech, UH, and UTD. Two of those three pay a lot more attention to revenue athletics than we do, plus they have huge endowment advantages over us. UTD has the research and engineering advantages because they don't have DIvision 1 athletics.

I just ask this simple question of four similar universities as ours in Texas. Texas Tech, Houston, UTSA, and UTEP--which one of these schools would drop athletic spending as much as we did? None is the correct answer, but if you want to argue that one of them would, then ask yourself if that is smart for funding. Texas freaking Tech has gotten to where they are SOLELY because of the emphasis they have placed on athletics, specifically on the relationship they cultivated with their alums and with the big player in this state (i.e. Texas). Their academic record is very poor as compared to most other AQ schools, yet they will have a place at the AQ table, almost certainly, due to their fan following. UH is a better academic school--by far, actually--than Tech, but even they had to overcome the stigma of being a "commuter school" in a big city. Yet, even with getting bitch-slapped out of the AQ big time all those years ago with SMU, TCU, and Rice, they have continued to fund their program at a high non-AQ level. Why? I mean, if its gonna keep you from Tier 1 status, who would do this? NO, the correct answer is that when its been done right, even here in Denton in the Fry years and in this past season, fans come out in droves to show their support. UH is moving out of Robertson Stadium because of their successes under Briles and Sumlin. UTSA is moving upward FAST, all because they looked at the obvious advantages of their situation in San Antonio and started funding FBS football. Now look at them, getting big crowds, a nice media following, and the full attention of other conferences and AQ teams who want to play them, both home and away.

Here's a crazy reality to the athletic-haters in Denton: in other college towns, when they win big time at a revenue sport that people want to watch, funding goes up for everything!! So does enrollment, if you want it to go up (see TCU in 2011 and Baylor now). Athletics is a true window to the university--it deserves as much attention and funding as you can feasibly feed it. Billboards and ads proclaiming you as a great value doesn't do it, in case anyone hasn't figured out why our endowment is still woefully small for a school our size that has only been around for almost 125 years. Obviously, if this is wrong, I am not getting it, which may say more about me than I care to admit, but I really don't get why we would cut athletics that much in 2015. Its almost begging Dan McCarney to leave at the first opportunity that he gets. And, believe me, if we have another bowl season here this season, a school like Kansas would be foolish not to go hard after him as their next head coach. It is as close to a no-brainer as you can get in this situation, for both parties. And just like we did in 1978 after Hayden Fry left, we will again have no one else to blame for our ineptness at understanding college athletics at the FBS level. Its just disgusting.

Edited July 29, 2014 by untjim1995

Mean Green 93-98 · July 29, 2014

Interesting that the college of music sees a drop of 2.8%, while the college of arts and sciences gets a small increase to their budget. Yet athletics loses 18.7% of its budget in 2015. Music and Arts will always be the window to the University of North Texas, according to the BOR and Administration.

There isn't one other university in Texas at the FBS level that would have cut athletics by this much. And this is why you have such a disconnect between the university and its alums. Every other school uses football as their main advertising arm to connect to their alumni and their community. We use music and arts.

I'm sorry, but 40k people gathered to watch a UNT Football team play in a bowl game against UNLV on January 1st. That ain't the area to cut--unless you think that you can host a concert or recital or exhibit that can draw even close to that same amount of people and dollars. I may get tons of-1s because music and arts matters so much around here, but I, like a lot of guys, like football and basketball. Music and arts will never get my interest or my dollars ahead of athletics at UNT. There are a lot more UNT graduates like me from the past 35 years who have been so alienated by the lack of attention to athletics that we have paid that they simply have chosen to just follow UT, A&M, Tech, OU, as well as all the pro teams to choose from in DFW. That "opportunity" cost is why we are where we are now, still being on the outside of the major players in college athletics. And that's a damn shame, in my opinion.

If you think athletics brings more dollars into the University of North Texas than the College of Music does, you couldn't be more wrong. Of those ticket revenues from the Heart of Dallas Bowl, how much went into UNT's coffers as clear profit? Yet the College of Music brings in thousands of tuition-paying students every year, and brings in millions of dollars of donations from all kinds of sources.

You constantly make it an "either-or," "us vs. them" thing within the university, and that is just a dumb, losing battle.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 29, 2014

Here's a crazy reality to the athletic-haters in Denton: in other college towns, when they win big time at a revenue sport that people want to watch, funding goes up for everything!!

Wait, let me get this straight . . . so you are saying that there can actually be symbiosis between athletics and academics? You actually don't have to defund one to have excellence in the other?!? Wow--what a revelation!

untjim1995 · July 29, 2014

If you think athletics brings more dollars into the University of North Texas than the College of Music does, you couldn't be more wrong. Of those ticket revenues from the Heart of Dallas Bowl, how much went into UNT's coffers as clear profit? Yet the College of Music brings in thousands of tuition-paying students every year, and brings in millions of dollars of donations from all kinds of sources.

You constantly make it an "either-or," "us vs. them" thing within the university, and that is just a dumb, losing battle.

I am not the one who makes it an either-or thing...that is all the university has done toward athletics for almost our entire existence. See SilverEagle's posts about the history of our Presidents and Chancellors and they way they viewed athletics.

Again, name me the one school in this state that chooses an art or music college as their main fundraiser over athletics. Name just one. Then ask yourself if we have a lower endowment than those schools.

And you will never know how much we profitted off that bowl game--just from getting DFW alums reconnected to our program that haven't dared to go up I-35 to watch a game in decades, but felt enough pride to go watch us in a bowl game against freaking UNLV. Who knows the benefit it has potential enrollment or future donations, either. The point is that the we are choosing to fund much more fully two areas that cannot ever come as close as athletics CAN to being a huge fundraiser to the entire university. Athletic Departments give dollars back to the university at schools where they are profits. And according to that report that Harry posted earlier, we are in that group of schools that made over a million dollars from athletics last year. Sorry, but the endowments and fundraising at even lesser state schools in Texas that aren't Tier One just blow us away--UH, Tech, UTD, UTEP, etc...what do they focus on that we don't? I bet you can figure you out...

Brett Vito · July 29, 2014

MGB: Updated with clarification from UNT athletic department

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2014/07/tuesday-afternoon-notes-unt-budgetary-figures.html/

Mean Green 93-98 · July 29, 2014

I am not the one who makes it an either-or thing...that is all the university has done toward athletics for almost our entire existence. See SilverEagle's posts about the history of our Presidents and Chancellors and they way they viewed athletics.

Again, name me the one school in this state that chooses an art or music college as their main fundraiser over athletics. Name just one. Then ask yourself if we have a lower endowment than those schools.

And you will never know how much we profitted off that bowl game--just from getting DFW alums reconnected to our program that haven't dared to go up I-35 to watch a game in decades, but felt enough pride to go watch us in a bowl game against freaking UNLV. Who knows the benefit it has potential enrollment or future donations, either. The point is that the we are choosing to fund much more fully two areas that cannot ever come as close as athletics CAN to being a huge fundraiser to the entire university. Athletic Departments give dollars back to the university at schools where they are profits. And according to that report that Harry posted earlier, we are in that group of schools that made over a million dollars from athletics last year. Sorry, but the endowments and fundraising at even lesser state schools in Texas that aren't Tier One just blow us away--UH, Tech, UTD, UTEP, etc...what do they focus on that we don't? I bet you can figure you out...

Having read James Rogers' Story of North Texas, I'm fairly familiar with the apathy and occasional antipathy of UNT's leadership toward athletics. But you are certainly the one making it an "either-or" thing now. UNT's present leadership may not be as athletics-crazy as some of us, but they want to see athletics succeed. They are not out to intentionally smother it. And they are certainly not re-routing athletics dollars toward the College of Music.

You ask me to "name me the one school in this state that chooses an art or music college as their main fundraiser over athletics." When was this decision ever made? If UNT athletics was the cash cow you're making it out to be, the BOR would be fattening that thing up. It's not a choice; it's just what has happened. UNT's College of Music makes money and gets the positive recognition that every university craves and will take any way it can get it.

UNT's lower endowment stems in large part from its history as a teacher's college, and from a history of not seeking donations. As a matter of fact, at one time its leadership discouraged donations. The College of Music does nothing to hinder UNT's endowment. Sure, if that were a college of business, with comparable enrollment and acclaim, it would probably lead to a significantly higher donor base. But simply eliminating the College of Music would not help the endowment one bit.

I'm taking nothing away from the significance of the HOD Bowl. But it remains the fact that the College of Music does more for the university. The College of Music is self-funding, and then some. Is athletics?

You say, "Sorry, but the endowments and fundraising at even lesser state schools in Texas that aren't Tier One just blow us away--UH, Tech, UTD, UTEP, etc...what do they focus on that we don't? I bet you can figure you out..." I suppose you would say they focus on suppressing their music programs?

Green Lantern · July 29, 2014

MGB: Updated with clarification from UNT athletic department

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2014/07/tuesday-afternoon-notes-unt-budgetary-figures.html/

Everyone should read Brett's update and step away from the ledge. We're gonna get through this buddies.