Fonzale Davis update from Vito

GOMG2013 · July 14, 2014

I can't believe you are going to make me do this, but here goes. I think we can agree that Dunbar was the real deal. Remember his back up? You know, this guy?:http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-James-Hamilton-59193
Take a good look at that offer sheet and speed. Anyone who ever saw James Hamilton play can attest that the speed isn't exaggerated. He would be starting RB this year for UNT.

Now lets go to wide receiver and take a look at the starters in 2010.

Tyler Stradford - transfer from OU. A burner by anyones account that ever saw him play. Now, if only he could catch the football:

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Tyler-Stradford-48851

Darius Carey - A more than capable slot receiver with an attitude problem, not a speed problem:

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Darius-Carey-74343

Jamaal Jackson - a really capable receiver that will be remembered for the dropped balls in the Ohio game that could have won the game. From Vtio's blog when he signed out of CC - "Run's a 4.4 40":

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020409aaa.html

B.J. Lewis - The "slowest" of the starters who ran a 4.6 40:

http://sports.yahoo.com/theoldcoach/football/recruiting/player-B.J.-Lewis-49234

And top reserve Breece Johnson? Ran a 4.4 40 out of high school. Alex Lott also contributed, and while small, was anything but slow.

So, strike one and two on RB and WR.

Not even going to go into defense, because it was so bad under Dodge, it wouldn't matter if the 1985 Chicago Bears defensive personnel were lining up for the Mean Green, it would have been a disaster.

Oh, but our two DTs that year weighed 309 and 307, respectfully.

What is your point here? Are you trying to help me prove mine? The whole discussion was about the talent that was left from dodge recruits for Mac to use. Doesn't naming players that didn't work out help prove the point about what Mac said about team speed? You were supposed to respond with good players, like lance Dunbar. Right now the only guys with good speed over the last 4 years you have named are lance Dunbar and brelan.

We still need lots of dbs, some more rbs, and a lot more wrs to make the claim that Mac had speed on the team from the dodge era. Naming busts only helps my stance.

UNT90 · July 14, 2014

What is your point here? Are you trying to help me prove mine? The whole discussion was about the talent that was left from dodge recruits for Mac to use. Doesn't naming players that didn't work out help prove the point about what Mac said about team speed? You were supposed to respond with good players, like lance Dunbar. Right now the only guys with good speed over the last 4 years you have named are lance Dunbar and brelan.
We still need lots of dbs, some more rbs, and a lot more wrs to make the claim that Mac had speed on the team from the dodge era. Naming busts only helps my stance.

Dude. It's pretty obvious you don;t know jack about what was left. James Hamilton is a prime example.

Jackson wasn't a bust. Neither was Carey. Or Hamilton. Or Johnson.

Players "don't work out" for a variety of reasons, as the Darius Carey example pointed out. It doesn't mean they were not fast enough or didn't have the talent to play at this level.

I guess if they aren't 1st team all-conference they are a bust in your book. What about Zack Orr, a first ballot UNT hall of famer? Dodge Recruit. Will Wright? Dodge recruit.

I don't know why people can't get it through their thick skulls that everything Mac says isn't necessarily true. We weren't what he said we were when he came here. Every coach coming into a down program makes statements like that to buy as much time as possible to put their system in place. It's a really simple reality.

Edited July 14, 2014 by UNT90

GOMG2013 · July 14, 2014

Dude. It's pretty obvious you don;t know jack about what was left. James Hamilton is a prime example.

Jackson wasn't a bust. Neither was Carey. Or Hamilton. Or Johnson.

Players "don't work out" for a variety of reasons, as the Darius Carey example pointed out. It doesn't mean they were not fast enough or didn't have the talent to play at this level.

I guess if they aren't 1st team all-conference they are a bust in your book. What about Zack Orr, a first ballot UNT hall of famer? Dodge Recruit. Will Wright? Dodge recruit.

I don't know why people can't get it through their thick skulls that everything Mac says isn't necessarily true. We weren't what he said we were when he came here. Every coach coming into a down program makes statements like that to buy as much time as possible to put their system in place. It's a really simple reality.

I have followed unt for only the last two seasons. First game I saw, before reading anything about Mac or talking to anybody about unt, I said this team lacks speed. I saw it right on the tv screen. No need to have a stopwatch.

Is it enough to compete in CUSA? We have already proved that it can be. That's not saying much though.

Even if you take the stance that 40 times are not accurate, hand timed 40s are usually faster than electronic. NFL combine times are more accurate. Our pro day was hand timed. Those times speak for themselves.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 14, 2014

Jamaal Jackson - a really capable receiver that will be remembered for the dropped balls in the Ohio game that could have won the game.

I'm pretty sure that was Mike Outlaw.

UNT90 · July 14, 2014

I'm pretty sure that was Mike Outlaw.

You would be correct, sir. My bad.

He probable dropped them because he was slow...

UNTLifer · July 14, 2014

Rivals also bumped Tee Goree from a 2-star to a 3-star after he committed to us. You can't look at things from only one angle and ignore when things to the contrary happen. Just like we can't only look at the successful 2-stars and unsuccessful 3-stars when we examine how effective star-ratings are.

And discredits their ratings in my book. Just my HO.

UNTLifer · July 14, 2014

This thread....only at UNT.

GOMG2013 · July 14, 2014

You would be correct, sir. My bad.

He probable dropped them because he was slow...

Since were on the topic of slow, im still waiting for names, cause you said dodge could recruit. Orr, chancellor, dunbar...anyone else?

I am willing to take your word for it. There may be others on here that can help you. A two deep will have about 46 players. Your stance is dodge left Mack with talent and he is not telling the truth about the situation when he got here.

I asked for backup, and you responded with a wr that had issues catching the ball. Hillarious.

Just looking at last years team, I see one corner was a walk on, one was a juco. The nickel was whitfield, converted from rb. Safety, trice, was a transfer. SS, lee was from Mac. Backup wade, transfer. Z Evans, transfer. Jackson was dodge.

Wr...d Smith was a walk on. Carlos Harris was Mac. Chancellor was dodge. Yay! Theres one! Terrell walk on. Caldwell transfer. Kidsy was Mac,

Pleasant walk on.

Rb...Byrd was dodge. Peagram transfer. Jimmerson was Mac.

looking at the two deep last year, out of about 51 spots, dodge recruits held 15 spots. Where's the recruiting? What happened to the speed that dodge left?

UNT90 · July 14, 2014

Since were on the topic of slow, im still waiting for names, cause you said dodge could recruit. Orr, chancellor, dunbar...anyone else?
I am willing to take your word for it. There may be others on here that can help you. A two deep will have about 46 players. Your stance is dodge left Mack with talent and he is not telling the truth about the situation when he got here.
I asked for backup, and you responded with a wr that had issues catching the ball. Hillarious.
Just looking at last years team, I see one corner was a walk on, one was a juco. The nickel was whitfield, converted from rb. Safety, trice, was a transfer. SS, lee was from Mac. Backup wade, transfer. Z Evans, transfer. Jackson was dodge.
Wr...d Smith was a walk on. Carlos Harris was Mac. Chancellor was dodge. Yay! Theres one! Terrell walk on. Caldwell transfer. Kidsy was Mac,
Pleasant walk on.
Rb...Byrd was dodge. Peagram transfer. Jimmerson was Mac.
looking at the two deep last year, out of about 51 spots, dodge recruits held 15 spots. Where's the recruiting? What happened to the speed that dodge left?

You do realize that you can only play college ball for 4 years, right?

You do understand that Mac has been here for 3, right?

Maybe you can do the math?

I'm not going to comb the roster for Dodge recruits. The fact that just about every offensive starter at a skill position in year 3 of Mac speaks for itself.

It is really clear you know little about the Dodge years and will believe anything that comes out of Mac's mouth (hey, I like the guy, but I understand coach speak when I hear it), so maybe we should just move on.

Edited July 14, 2014 by UNT90

GOMG2013 · July 14, 2014

It is really clear you know little about the Dodge years and will believe anything that comes out of Mac's mouth (hey, I like the guy, but I understand coach speak when I hear it), so maybe we should just move on.

You are correct. I know little about the dodge years. I ask you to enlighten me, and you cannot.

You can make a statement that a 60 year old coach that has seen successful at 3 different schools is feeding us BS, but cant back it up.

You say dodge left talent and could recruit. No backup. Maybe this can add some insight on what Mac had to work with.

2011 all conference

RB lance Dunbar... 1st team-dodge

DB Royce hill...1st team-dodge

P will atterberry...1st team-dodge

DL Brandon akpunku... 2nd team-dodge

LB Zach orr...2nd team-dodge

2012 sun belt

OL a. Fortenberry 1st team- dodge

LB Z. Orr 2nd team-dodge

DB Z. Whitfield-2nd team-Mac

P Atterbury-2nd team-dodge

OL lemon HonMen-Mac

OL ybarbo Hon Men- dodge

2013 all cusa

OL lemon 1st team-Mac

DB trice 1st team -Mac transfer

LB z. orr 1st team-dodge

R/WR b.chancelor 1st & 2nd team-dodge

OL ybarbo 2nd team-dodge

DL A. Bellazin 2nd team-dodge

RB b. Byrd Hon men-dodge

Wr. D. Smith hon men-Mac transfer

DB k. Buyers hon men-Mac walk on

DL d. Abbe hon men-dodge

LB d akunne hon men-Mac

DB l. Lee hon men-Mac

not a lot to work with. Especially at the skill positions. Now im supposed to believe there was a lot of hidden speed and talent that dodge left, but Mac just chose not to use it?

UNT90 · July 14, 2014

You are correct. I know little about the dodge years. I ask you to enlighten me, and you cannot.
You can make a statement that a 60 year old coach that has seen successful at 3 different schools is feeding us BS, but cant back it up.
You say dodge left talent and could recruit. No backup. Maybe this can add some insight on what Mac had to work with.
2011 all conference
RB lance Dunbar... 1st team-dodge
DB Royce hill...1st team-dodge
P will atterberry...1st team-dodge
DL Brandon akpunku... 2nd team-dodge
LB Zach orr...2nd team-dodge
2012 sun belt
OL a. Fortenberry 1st team- dodge
LB Z. Orr 2nd team-dodge
DB Z. Whitfield-2nd team-Mac
P Atterbury-2nd team-dodge
OL lemon HonMen-Mac
OL ybarbo Hon Men- dodge
2013 all cusa
OL lemon 1st team-Mac
DB trice 1st team -Mac transfer
LB z. orr 1st team-dodge
R/WR b.chancelor 1st & 2nd team-dodge
OL ybarbo 2nd team-dodge
DL A. Bellazin 2nd team-dodge
RB b. Byrd Hon men-dodge
Wr. D. Smith hon men-Mac transfer
DB k. Buyers hon men-Mac walk on
DL d. Abbe hon men-dodge
LB d akunne hon men-Mac
DB l. Lee hon men-Mac
not a lot to work with. Especially at the skill positions. Now im supposed to believe there was a lot of hidden speed and talent that dodge left, but Mac just chose not to use it?

Thanks for proving my point with the above post.

You have a very funny definition of "not a lot to work with."

Did you also believe it when Mac talked about opening up the offense prior to the 2013 season? Are you actually going to say that happened? Coaches say a lot of things fans want to hear. They are not all true. Every coach does it. Coach Mac did it when he talked about being the "slowest, smallest team in FBS" upon his arrival after year one.

I wonder what he would say now that his DL is WAY undersized compared to Dodge's final year.

Did you even understand that in my earlier post?

Lets also not forget Boutwell (starting DT last year) and Sarge (DE) as Dodge players. So, in year 3, Mac is starting a defensive front 4 of Dodge recruits. You know, because they are the smallest, slowest players in FBS.

Throw in Will Wright and that is 9 starters from the Dodge years. Actually, Dodge's last 1 1/2 recruiting classes (very few redshirted from 2008, as I recall). And as you probably don't know, Dodge's 2009 class was heavy with JUCOs, so the fact that so many starters remained in 2013 say either a lot about the high school kids Dodge did get in that 2009 class or a little about Macs recruits so far.

You can't have it both ways.

Edited July 14, 2014 by UNT90

GOMG2013 · July 14, 2014

Thanks for proving my point with the above post.
You have a very funny definition of "not a lot to work with."

You honestly think 2011 & 2012 was a lot to work with? I may not know a lot about UNT, but I follow a lot of college, hs, and pro football.

if anything, that post proved that just having a few all conference players isnt enough. It took having

All conference players at almost every position to have the results that we had in 2013.

2011 & 2012 had a DB, lb, Dl, rb, OL. Not close to being enough to be a winning team. 1 or 2 players at the skill positions wont cut it.

In 2013, the additional skill positions added to the list made a winning season. Not just one DB, like in 2011. We had 3 in 2013. 2 wrs in 2013. 2 lbs in 2013.

UNT90 · July 14, 2014

You honestly think 2011 & 2012 was a lot to work with? I may not know a lot about UNT, but I follow a lot of college, hs, and pro football.
if anything, that post proved that just having a few all conference players isnt enough. It took having
All conference players at almost every position to have the results that we had in 2013.
2011 & 2012 had a DB, lb, Dl, rb, OL. Not close to being enough to be a winning team. 1 or 2 players at the skill positions wont cut it.
In 2013, the additional skill positions added to the list made a winning season. Not just one DB, like in 2011. We had 3 in 2013. 2 wrs in 2013. 2 lbs in 2013.

This argument was about Dodge "leaving nothing to work with."

Then you post a list of Dodge recruits that were all-conference for a 9-4 team. A team that had 9 starters from Dodge's last class and a half.

How many starters were from Mac's 1st class and a half?

If you think 9 starters from a class and a half isn't great, especially for a lower tier FBS team, you just don't understand college football recruiting.

Edited July 14, 2014 by UNT90

GOMG2013 · July 14, 2014

If you think 9 starters from a class and a half isn't great, especially for a lower tier FBS team, you just don't understand college football recruiting.

9 starters for a class (and a half) is not "great" its expected. Especially for a lower tier school where many dont leave early for the nfl.

Im sure most teams have a lot of seniors starting. Not a big surprise or outstanding job. most likely average.

Edited July 14, 2014 by GOMG2013

Cerebus · July 14, 2014

The star ranking system DOES WORK. Fans of football teams who do not get the high star recruits love to pull out anecdotal evidence of this lowly rated recruit being a star, or a 5 star being a bust, but the plural of anecdote Is not evidence.

Here is a long, but good article - Recruiting by the numbers: Why the sites get the rankings right

Beyond the vagaries, the hype and the busts, the annual recruiting rankings still represent the most reliable system at our disposal for making initial assumptions about teams and players alike. Taken as a whole, the numbers actually do work -- as long as you're willing to use all of the numbers.
Not to take all the fun out of it, but in practice, drawing conclusions from recruiting rankings is the rough equivalent of selling health insurance. Both industries are in the business of predicting the future on a large scale -- of making bets, essentially -- and both have sound, proven criteria for guaranteeing they bet right more often than they bet wrong. Occasionally, of course, certain individuals will defy that criteria: A lifelong smoker who eats fast food every day may live to be 90 years old. A vegetarian who exercises every day may suddenly drop dead at fifty. But when you're dealing with large groups of individuals, say, 1,000 smokers vs. 600 vegetarians, then the results become very, very predictable.
---
The massively hyped, five-star recruit headlining your team's next recruiting class may be an irredeemable bust; he is also many times more likely than a scrappy three-star to pan out as an All-American and move on to the next level. Somewhere, an under-scouted afterthought with a chip on his shoulder will almost certainly go on to defy the odds, become a star and maybe win the Heisman Trophy. But that doesn't change the odds, which are against him becoming anything more than an obscure role player, at best. Inevitably, a team full of afterthoughts at the bottom of the rankings will defy the odds, catch fire, pull a few upsets and storm its way into a BCS bowl. But that doesn't change the odds, which are in favor of the same team dwindling on the edge of bowl eligibility. And just as inevitably, the eventual national champion will emerge from the ranks of the handful of teams that consistently come out on top on signing day.

Long story short: The odds of us being successful are much better if we land 3 and 4 star recruits, vs 2 and 3 star recruits.

BillySee58 · September 10, 2014

True Freshman WR Jalen Adams is no longer listed on the roster. Without Adams we really don't have any young slot receivers on the roster. Darius Terrell, Skip Caldwell, Derrick Teagarden, and John Chelf are our current slots. But all 4 are seniors. Carlos Harris has plenty of experience in the slot (started every game there last year) and he may be moved back there next year. But even so, he will be a senior next year.

This may open the door for Fonzale to get re-recruited by us out of Kilgore. Trinity Valley JUCO receiver Jarvis Baxter may be more of a possible take now. Maybe Savon Rollinson out of Dallas Skyline. Or Willy Ivery could see more time at slot down the line. A lot can happen, but there's a good chance Fonzale is given another look now.

meangreenacct · September 10, 2014

I thought Jalen Adams was supposed to be a great pick up, what the heck happened?

Withers940 · September 10, 2014

Does anyone know how Fonzale is doing after his first two games?

BillySee58 · September 10, 2014

I thought Jalen Adams was supposed to be a great pick up, what the heck happened?

Just from a pure athleticism standpoint he was. But he was an out-of state kid and that's always a gamble in itself. Can't tell you the real reason and I'm not going to speculate too much.

UNTLifer · September 10, 2014

Maybe Vito will read this and do some digging.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 11, 2014

Just from a pure athleticism standpoint he was. But he was an out-of state kid and that's always a gamble in itself. Can't tell you the real reason and I'm not going to speculate too much.

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/trevor_moore_903725.html

http://www.justsportsstats.com/footballstatsindex.php?player_id=pearljer001

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/052207aaa.html

http://www.raiders.com/team/roster/Jamize-Olawale/b5a72914-8c7a-40ed-b1b4-88569f9b4081

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 11, 2014

Chillin in the hotel ready to hit that field tomorrow and get another W! #2-0
— Jalen Adams (@Stixx_7)
Chillin in the hotel ready to hit that field tomorrow and get another W! #2-0
— Jalen Adams (@Stixx_7) September 6, 2014

">September 6, 2014

Wherever he is, they won their first game; so, it wasn't here.

Chillin in the hotel ready to hit that field tomorrow and get another W! #2-0
— Jalen Adams (@Stixx_7)
Chillin in the hotel ready to hit that field tomorrow and get another W! #2-0
— Jalen Adams (@Stixx_7) September 6, 2014

">September 6, 2014 https://twitter.com/Stixx_7/status/508094799207870464 Edited September 11, 2014 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 11, 2014

Mystery solved. He's at start up Oklahoma Baptist: http://www.obubison.com/roster/12/26/4327.php

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 11, 2014

His former high school coach, Chris Jensen, is the head coach at Oklahoma Baptist. So....

adman · September 11, 2014

.
Don't believe the "lack of talent, size, and speed" BS coach speak Mac threw down when he got here. We will be the smallest we have been in many a year on the DL this year, and that is Mac's specialty position.

In 1991 Coach Patrick won a National Championship playing at Miami (undefeated) - there wasn't a single starter on the defensive line that weighed over 270-ish lbs. They played Nebraska for the Championship and won 22-0. Much can be done with small, speedy D.