CUSA Attendance

hickoryhouse · July 8, 2014

Just bored this off season and thought to take a look and see where average attendance numbers were last year, I am sure this has already been discussed...

What should our realistic attendance numbers be?

What do these numbers say about UTSA and their 1 horse town? ( My roommate is a graduate from there as of this spring, he loves shoving these numbers in my face)

What will all of us be happy with?

Here are the regular season home attendance averages for each C-USA team in 2013:

• East Carolina (43,985);

• UTSA (29,214);

• UTEP (28,375);

• Marshall (25,023);

• Southern Miss (22,752);

• North Texas (21,030);

• Tulsa (19,893);

• Tulane (19,747);

• Middle Tennessee (18,715);

• Louisiana Tech (18,666);

• Rice (18,493);

• Florida International (15,453);

• Florida Atlantic (14,552);

• Alabama-Birmingham (10,548).

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/blog/2013/12/utsa-among-attendance-leaders-in-its.html?page=all

Just thinking about what we can do and where we should be. Now back to work.

Cerebus · July 8, 2014

• UTSA (29,214);

• UTEP (28,375);

UTSA/UTEP both have the same advantage.

Large city, geographically separated from other large cities, very little competition for the sports dollar.

Denton has 1/5th the population of El Paso, 1/10th of San Antonio. EP has no major pro teams, SA has the Spurs. Culturally supporting local teams is "cool" in EP and SA, but not so much in Denton. Even the sports loving business owners in Denton fell they have to not anger TWU alums.

What El Paso has done is more impressive to me. UTSA has the newness factor that UTEP does not have. El Paso had 28k for a 2 win team, they have averaged over 50k for good Miner teams. UTSA has had a very impressive run so far, but they are going to take a step back when they graduate 45 people next year. Will SA support UTSA when they lose like EP does for UTEP?

NT's strength is we have a very large amount of DFW alumns. DFW is an economic engine that can find jobs for most of alumns right here. UTEP grads often have to move all over the state, and they have large almuni groups all over the state to show this. I am not sure about UTSA alumns, but they have not been a large school for decades like we have and their total # of alumns is much lower.

Winning will get people involved. It's no coincidence that most of our diehards are from either the Frye era or the Dickey era. Mac is forming a new generation of diehards right now. What we current diehards can do right now is give money.

NTXCoog · July 8, 2014

I'm curious what is going to happen to UTSA's attendance this year. They have been winning, so that helps.

Let's look at the stats:

Avg Attendance

2011 - 35,521

2012 - 29,226

2013 - 29,214

So they held steady last year after a big drop from their first season.

But let's look at median attendance

2011 - 32,628

2012 - 28,100

2013 - 25,970

That's a good size drop every year. So what does that mean? UTSA has had some big attendance games that skew up their averages.

2011 - 1st game for the program at 56k, but they did have 4 other 30k+ games

2012 - 39k vs neighbor TX State. 2 other games between 30k and 31k

2013 - 41k vs Okie St (1st game against BCS/P5 team. Top 15 team). 32k vs UH (in state team that travels a core of 2-5k to close games). No other game broke 27k.

That brings us to 2014.

They do play Arizona at home. But I'm guessing an above average Pac12 team won't draw like a top 15 Big 12 team in Texas.

UTEP travels well, but not 40k well.

UNT - don't know how well you guys will travel there. I know there's a rivalry building. I think it depends on how well both teams are playing since it is the end of the year. If both teams are over .500, there will be pretty good attendance. If both teams are below expectations, possibly not. It will probably exceed 30k if expectations are met.

Beyond that you have UNM, FIU, and USM. Expect about 25k for those.

So my guess is the average and median are closer together without an outlier 40k game and UTSA averages closer to 27k. Possibilty of more if they vastly exceed expectations, but I think that will be difficult losing Soza who really impressed me in spite of throwing 3 INTs against us last year.

UNTexas · July 8, 2014

UTSA/UTEP both have the same advantage.

Large city, geographically separated from other large cities, very little competition for the sports dollar.

Denton has 1/5th the population of El Paso, 1/10th of San Antonio. EP has no major pro teams, SA has the Spurs. Culturally supporting local teams is "cool" in EP and SA, but not so much in Denton. Even the sports loving business owners in Denton fell they have to not anger TWU alums.

What El Paso has done is more impressive to me. UTSA has the newness factor that UTEP does not have. El Paso had 28k for a 2 win team, they have averaged over 50k for good Miner teams. UTSA has had a very impressive run so far, but they are going to take a step back when they graduate 45 people next year. Will SA support UTSA when they lose like EP does for UTEP?

NT's strength is we have a very large amount of DFW alumns. DFW is an economic engine that can find jobs for most of alumns right here. UTEP grads often have to move all over the state, and they have large almuni groups all over the state to show this. I am not sure about UTSA alumns, but they have not been a large school for decades like we have and their total # of alumns is much lower.

Winning will get people involved. It's no coincidence that most of our diehards are from either the Frye era or the Dickey era. Mac is forming a new generation of diehards right now. What we current diehards can do right now is give money.

There's nothing too impressive about UTEP football. They are the only show in town. Once the beatings begin people don't typically stick around either. The thing the numbers don't tell is the perception the typical El Pasoan has of the team. People are proud of their basketball team, the exact opposite can be said for their football team. Recruiting will get harder for them too with UTSA and Texas State going D1. EP is a tough sale to a high school recruit. I see their image locally in EP getting worse unless their new coach can produce a miracle turn around.

The other thing I noticed about UTEP is everyone hyped up how well they travel fans. I didn't see a big turn out in Denton at all last year. All the DFW UTEP fans talked it up before the game and they failed to live up to the hype.

Cerebus · July 8, 2014

That's a good size drop every year. So what does that mean? UTSA has had some big attendance games that skew up their averages.

2011 - 1st game for the program at 56k, but they did have 4 other 30k+ games

2012 - 39k vs neighbor TX State. 2 other games between 30k and 31k

2013 - 41k vs Okie St (1st game against BCS/P5 team. Top 15 team). 32k vs UH (in state team that travels a core of 2-5k to close games). No other game broke 27k.

That's a very good point but you do have to give UTSA credit for getting those teams to sign home and homes with them. Something we have been lacking in.

Of course, those teams probably signed those because they expected a cakewalk. UTSA maximized those games by being competitive and bringing fans. In the future, either UTSA will continue to be good, and find those home/home contracts much harder to get, or they will be worse, and not able to excite the local fans. Either one will cause attendance problems.

NTXCoog · July 8, 2014

That's a very good point but you do have to give UTSA credit for getting those teams to sign home and homes with them. Something we have been lacking in.

Of course, those teams probably signed those because they expected a cakewalk. UTSA maximized those games by being competitive and bringing fans. In the future, either UTSA will continue to be good, and find those home/home contracts much harder to get, or they will be worse, and not able to excite the local fans. Either one will cause attendance problems.

No doubt they have made the most of what they have on the field and in the stands.

Curious if Coker would consider leaving after this year if it's a good season. Some upper G5/lower P5 might take a flyer on him because he is a darn good coach. If Coker ever wants to leave UTSA, after this year might be the best time with them losing almost all of their starters for 2015.

Cerebus · July 8, 2014

Sorry UNTexas, but I have to disagree a lot with you about UTEP.

There's nothing too impressive about UTEP football. They are the only show in town. Once the beatings begin people don't typically stick around either.

Really, then why did a two win team outdraw our 9 win team by 7k? The 2005 8 win UTEP team brought in 47,899.

The other thing I noticed about UTEP is everyone hyped up how well they travel fans. I didn't see a big turn out in Denton at all last year. All the DFW UTEP fans talked it up before the game and they failed to live up to the hype.

That 2 win team bought in almost as many fans as UTSA did. UTEP has a large alumni group in DFW, they will bring in more than Rice and the non Texas CUSA teams even in bad years, they will bring a ton if they get a winning team.

Cerebus · July 8, 2014

Curious if Coker would consider leaving after this year if it's a good season.

I don't know if Coker would be open to leaving or not. He may have decided he wants to retire there and become AD afterwards for all I know.

If he does want to leave I agree next year is the time to do it.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Cerebus

casual fan · July 8, 2014

UTSA had a much better schedule last year for attendance purposes. However, they had nothing to play for.

If we are both playing for the CUSA west championship the last game of the year, it will be their largest attendance of the season.

Mean Green Nation will travel for a game like that in San Antonio.

aztecskin · July 9, 2014

I think NTXCoog has a great point. On a given Saturday there are two other colleges playing and perhaps even a neutral site game involving top-25 teams.

I can live with filling up 72% of capacity given those circumstances. Still would like to see Apogee filled to the brim, of course.

GrayEagle · July 9, 2014

Larry Coker is 66 years old. Not exactly the time of life that you're making changes unless you're forced. Besides, take it from me, the older you get the harder it is to cope with stress and new situations.

GrayEagle · July 9, 2014

Just bored this off season and thought to take a look and see where average attendance numbers were last year, I am sure this has already been discussed...

What should our realistic attendance numbers be?

What do these numbers say about UTSA and their 1 horse town? ( My roommate is a graduate from there as of this spring, he loves shoving these numbers in my face)

What will all of us be happy with?

Here are the regular season home attendance averages for each C-USA team in 2013:

• East Carolina (43,985);

• UTSA (29,214);

• UTEP (28,375);

• Marshall (25,023);

• Southern Miss (22,752);

• North Texas (21,030);

• Tulsa (19,893);

• Tulane (19,747);

• Middle Tennessee (18,715);

• Louisiana Tech (18,666);

• Rice (18,493);

• Florida International (15,453);

• Florida Atlantic (14,552);

• Alabama-Birmingham (10,548).

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/blog/2013/12/utsa-among-attendance-leaders-in-its.html?page=all

Just thinking about what we can do and where we should be. Now back to work.

I'm afraid that we're about where we should be in this conference. If we can keep having winning seasons then I believe that we can level off at around 25K which should be fourth in this conference (at least until ODU gets a larger stadium).

For this conference to gain much respect every member should have attendance of 20,000 or more. I believe that six to as many as ten are capable of doing that. Rice should be averaging more than 20,000 every year because they often have a big non-conference game. La Tech, Middle and WKU are borderline 20K teams. I expect ODU to average more than 20,000 every year. UAB and Charlotte, with good teams could meet that goal as well. The two Floridas...probably not. They struggle to get that number for UCF or South Florida.

UNTexas · July 9, 2014

Sorry UNTexas, but I have to disagree a lot with you about UTEP.

Really, then why did a two win team outdraw our 9 win team by 7k? The 2005 8 win UTEP team brought in 47,899.
That 2 win team bought in almost as many fans as UTSA did. UTEP has a large alumni group in DFW, they will bring in more than Rice and the non Texas CUSA teams even in bad years, they will bring a ton if they get a winning team.

They bring people to the Sun Bowl because there is next to nothing to do in El Paso. Between El Paso and Juarez there is 2.7 million people in a secluded region with no entertainment worth mentioning. I'm from there and I speak from experience. El Paso is a boring city so why not go to a game? The other option is to drink or eat. That's what everyone does nightly anyway. It's not exactly a complex question to figure out.

As far as your other point, they sure didn't show up in mass numbers like they all boasted they would when they came to Denton for their savage beating last season. As for them traveling more fans when they start winning? That's a laughable prediction because they've talked about turning it around for as long as I remember. As I said, recruiting has gotten a lot harder for them because the competition in Texas just went up. EP is a tough sell. Hell, I grew up a season ticket holder for Miner football & basketball and still declined to visit when they offered a trip. EP was a much nicer town back then too. They probably aren't going to get much better any time soon. My buddies who went there want them to join another conference in which they don't have to be in a conference with Texas schools because they could use western exposure for recruiting. Obviously because they can't sell their product to kids looking at schools in San Marcos, San Antonio, Houston, DFW, ect.

They've always had a basketball program to be proud of and rightly so. Football, like I said before is a different animal. They have nothing enviable in that department except being literally the only show in a secluded town.

(EP folks, I'm not trying to offend y'all on this board. I know how proud some people out there are about El Chuco. I had some fun there back in the day but my experience there was like Groundhog Day in the desert with beer.)

Edited July 9, 2014 by UNTexas

Cerebus · July 9, 2014

They bring people to the Sun Bowl because there is next to nothing to do in El Paso. Between El Paso and Juarez there is 2.7 million people in a secluded region with no entertainment worth mentioning. I'm from there and I speak from experience. El Paso is a boring city so why not go to a game? The other option is to drink or eat. That's what everyone does nightly anyway. It's not exactly a complex question to figure out.

You are saying the exact same thing I am, why are you arguing with me? El Paso has a huge advantage when it comes attendance compared to us. Exactly because they don't have all the entertainment options Denton has being part of the DFW metroplex. I can promise you we wouldn't have 28k show up at Apogee during a two win season. It's still impressive that that many show up at the Sun Bowl because it's not like the internet, cable tv and netflix don't exist in El Paso.

My family is from Ft. Hancock and El Paso, so I know the city as well.

forevereagle · July 9, 2014

I can promise you we wouldn't have 28k show up at Apogee during a two win season.

Recent history support this theory.

UNTexas · July 9, 2014

You are saying the exact same thing I am, why are you arguing with me? El Paso has a huge advantage when it comes attendance compared to us. Exactly because they don't have all the entertainment options Denton has being part of the DFW metroplex. I can promise you we wouldn't have 28k show up at Apogee during a two win season. It's still impressive that that many show up at the Sun Bowl because it's not like the internet, cable tv and netflix don't exist in El Paso.

My family is from Ft. Hancock and El Paso, so I know the city as well.

I probably replied because you disagreed and asked questions. So, I replied. Furthermore, you keep making statements and asking questions!!! So let's just agree to kind of agree and disagree then go to UNT Night at the Rangers game. Maybe I'll see some of y'all there! Edited July 9, 2014 by UNTexas