Convention Center Update/Criticism/Debate

UNTeagle88 · July 8, 2014

http://rodenfordenton.com/2014/07/how-to-think-about-the-convention-center/

greenit · July 8, 2014

Am I missing something? The drawing sure makes it look like the hill will be no more. Will they just move them to an area of the parking lot? I suppose they have at least a year to figure it out.

Snowy · July 8, 2014

http://cityofdenton.com/home/showdocument?id=20007

Yup... looks like the hill will be lost. Look at the edge of the "circle" and where the parking lot ends... only looks to be about 25 feet separating it. Additionally, the direct path that students take from the pedestrian bridge to entrance looks to be obscured. There looks like there would still be a few spots on the hill; enough for 5-10 tailgate groups, but a far cry from what it is today.

My overlay below:

Harry · July 8, 2014

Nice post Snowy and UNTeagle88! I wondered what the status was on this. Yes it certainly will impact the Hill but in my mind the positives outweigh the negatives. My guess is tailgating will move more to the greenspace or to the west side across Bonnie Brae.

Here is a direct link to the Q&A: http://cityofdenton.com/departments-services/convention-center-project

I'm sorry, but having that hotel and convention center right by the stadium is just too good to pass up. Remember they will also be building a restaurant there which will be nice.

Harry · July 8, 2014

This post has been promoted to an article

Christopher Walker · July 8, 2014

I could totally see everything in blue being the future of tailgating.

Only major issue is getting your stuff there (bringing it in the day before, etc.)

Greenrex · July 8, 2014

Devil's advocate here.

Institutional block style with no real wow. Those stairs?

It overwhelms Apogee and current space. It seems more Denton and less UNT.

I know everyone wants this to happen and it may already have a life of its own...

Green P1 · July 8, 2014

I vote no to losing the hill.

Green Crazy · July 8, 2014

it's going to be a constant battle during the football season for the city to keep the convention center parking lot and other areas clean of trash from the games unless there is a fence.

also don't care for the hill to leave.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Green Crazy

GrayEagle · July 8, 2014

I don't see that the top of the hill is used much now so I think that it won't have a lot of impact on the stadium or tailgating. The side of the hill is used now and I envision the same use. I believe that vehicles will use the red/blue and orange lots. There can be shelters set up on any of the grassy areas around those lots. I don't see a lot more tailgating at this time but perhaps some consolidating of two or more tailgaters into a larger area. The fraternities will continue to occupy the hillside.

I agree that a fence around the hotel/convention center property is a must. Other than that, I don't see that we will have much say in the matter. I'm sure that subject has been discussed many times.

Edited July 8, 2014 by GrayEagle

adman · July 8, 2014

I disagree on the fence and the garbage concerns. I don't think you want to wall things off. It kills the feel of the whole area. And limiting access to and from for those staying in the hotel etc isn't a good thing. It's not as though game day brings out marauding hordes of visigoths.

As for garbage concerns at the convention/hotel area by game dayers - it's simply a matter of expanding Apogee trash patrol to those areas if needed. But I've always felt our tailgaters in general are very respectful of the area and do a good job of keeping things picked up.

I'm guessing there won't be conventions every home game so that enormous parking lot may be a new cash option for some.

Travis · July 8, 2014

I vote no to losing the hill.

I knew you hated America.

pastorgrant · July 8, 2014

I could totally see everything in blue being the future of tailgating.
Only major issue is getting your stuff there (bringing it in the day before, etc.)

Plenty of room to expand, too. I've tailgated on the opposite side of Victory from Apogee and there's a huge field over there (practice field, intramural activity field) that could accommodate a lot of festivities.

greenit · July 8, 2014

Definitely lots of open area there. Easy access to drop off supplies, but need to figure out how to monitor access with some sort of parking pass. Could also just put them in some portion of the parking lot, similar to UH.

GrandGreen · July 8, 2014

Still don't know why NT wants this. It is just going to add a lot of congestion to an university area. In addition instead of an unencumbered view of the university area and stadium to the West, you will get a view of a hotel convention center complex.

If NT doesn't financially benefit from this, I see no big advantage. I doubt any major athletic program would want this in the heart of their athletic complex. If you plan to be a small program and average 20k attendance, I guess it doesn't matter; but why sacrifice valuable real estate for this.

Travis · July 8, 2014

Still don't know why NT wants this. It is just going to add a lot of congestion to an university area. In addition instead of an unencumbered view of the university area and stadium to the West, you will get a view of a hotel convention center complex.
If NT doesn't financially benefit from this, I see no big advantage. I doubt any major athletic program would want this in the heart of their athletic complex. If you plan to be a small program and average 20k attendance, I guess it doesn't matter; but why sacrifice valuable real estate for this.

I actually agree with this. I was excited about a convention center and hotel coming in... not so much anymore.

oldguystudent · July 8, 2014

I don't mind its positioning on the hill, but I think it's poor civic engineering to have it so isolated from everything. One hotel, no restaurants, no bars, no nothing. That doesn't attract the conventioneer with an expense account in his wallet.

But, hey, if we can get it built and full of hookers by September 6th, the criminal fines will more than pay for it.

Ben Gooding · July 9, 2014

I like it, I actually love it. Put our recruits up in a view overlooking Apogee then dine them in the lobby restaurant. It'll be big for recruiting and recruiting wins football games. It's also pub and I'll take any kind of pub I can. Also brings people to UNT for seminars etc and also brings highway travelers to UNT even to just talk about where they stopped and stayed the night to their buddies/co-workers. It's a win-win in my eyes. They just need to put the pedal to the metal when construction starts and not let it linger.

aztecskin · July 9, 2014

Everything I've ever read about convention centers say that they are a drain, and don't produce the revenue they promise. The research they commission is suspect, and self-serving.

Also, I don't like losing the Hill.

I vote 'no' from a far, full of symbolism and holding no weight.

drex · July 9, 2014

I see a constant pissing contest between the athletic dept. at UNT, the UNT academic community and the City of Denton over this thing....hope I am wrong.

Harry · July 9, 2014

Update: http://www.dentonrc.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20140708-project-could-hinge-on-county.ece

eulessismore · July 9, 2014

This is the kind of thing that almost makes me wish I weren't a geographer. Central Place theory anyone? I mean, as a City of Dallas employee, I didn't like the City signing on as the financial guarantor for the Convention Center Hotel, but at least it's in Downtown Dallas, with 3 Interstate Highways providing access, three types of rail service within walking distance and a fourth just about to launch, and arguably the City's premier tourist attraction (Pioneer Plaza with all those sculpted longhorns) a block away. Conspiracy theorists have unlimited entertainment. Once Denton's proposed convention goers are not in whatever session, are they all going to want to spend their spare time at Houlihans? This just seems like the sort of site selection process based on "here's where the vacant land is, build the hotel and the restaurants will follow".

Anybody thought of something just east of Downtown Denton, near the new train station, with easy access to UNT, TWU, and Beth Marie's Ice Cream. Honestly, there probably aren't any parcels large enough there, and Denton needs some serious meeting space, but it just needs that space to be somewhere people can enjoy the wonderful small city experience that is Denton, and enjoy some of the decent restaurants that already exist. This whole thing is just so twentieth century.

Edited July 9, 2014 by eulessismore

Greenrex · July 9, 2014

Still don't know why NT wants this. It is just going to add a lot of congestion to an university area. In addition instead of an unencumbered view of the university area and stadium to the West, you will get a view of a hotel convention center complex.
If NT doesn't financially benefit from this, I see no big advantage. I doubt any major athletic program would want this in the heart of their athletic complex. If you plan to be a small program and average 20k attendance, I guess it doesn't matter; but why sacrifice valuable real estate for this.

I see a constant pissing contest between the athletic dept. at UNT, the UNT academic community and the City of Denton over this thing....hope I am wrong.

Agree both.

Aldo · July 9, 2014

The design of the convention center is to have it more small scale, bc so many of the big convention centers fail.

Hopefully this will bring some modern development on either side of 35 between North Texas blvd and McCormick (especially with the liquor petition going on this November's ballot). Also, Rayzor Ranch should be done by then. Right...? The plan is to also get the bus system out there. Downtown Denton cannot handle a convention center. It can barely take Jazz Fest. I usually have to park half a mile away.

GrayEagle · July 9, 2014

I think that UNT really wanted the hotel but probably not the convention center. The problem is they couldn't get one of any size built without some attraction to keep people overnight(s). A hotel would provide training for the Hospitality Management majors and easy access to the campus for conferences and other meetings of more than a day's duration. And, long term an income of a couple of hundred thousand dollars or so annually. A successful model existed in San Marcos which is very near the TSU campus and that no doubt contributed to Denton deciding to locate on the UNT campus.

Ideally, the center should have been downtown with the hotel nearby but land costs would've killed the project. I do think that public transportation in Denton could provide shuttles to downtown and other major hotels so that the location would still provide income to other than just the convention center and Embassy Suites.

It's far from perfect but seems to have more pluses than minuses.