How does UNT’s QB situation shake out?

Cerebus · June 6, 2014

As is often common, both sides are right but each is too dug in and dogmatic to realize it.

DT is an average D1 QB, he had his ups and down, it just so happens that one of his extreme highs was the second half of a nationally televised new years day bowl game. That is enough to make his a NT HOFer.

He is also, clearly, the second best QB we have had since we returned to the top division. Only Scott Hall trumps him, and mainly on what I consider to be the most important QB stat TD/INT Ratio. If we look at the historical data, there is no reason to BELIEVE, not hope, that we have someone better to replace him. Not that I don't think one of these QBs will be better than DT, its just none of them have proven anything, and the track record doesn't like.

DT and Scott Hall their last two years:

Derek Thompson

---

Comp%: 61.0

YPA: 7.5

TD: 30

INT: 27

TD/INT Ratio: 1.1

Scott Hall

---

Comp%: 57.8

YPA: 8.5

TD: 27

INT: 9

TD/INT Ratio: 3.0

greenminer · June 6, 2014

Given the current QB crop and their current classification, how do they stack up against DT and Scott Hall when looking at their same classification, i.e. Sophomore DT vs. Sophomore McNulty?

From a development standpoint, I certainly would not expect a sophomore to come in and play like DT did in the bowl game. But I do expect an upgrade from where our current guys are in their learning process when compared to where DT and Scott were at the same point in their careers.

I'll definitely miss Bowl Game DT, but I am rooting for all of our current guys to be better off in the long run.

TIgreen01 · June 6, 2014

As is often common, both sides are right but each is too dug in and dogmatic to realize it.

DT is an average D1 QB, he had his ups and down, it just so happens that one of his extreme highs was the second half of a nationally televised new years day bowl game. That is enough to make his a NT HOFer.

He is also, clearly, the second best QB we have had since we returned to the top division. Only Scott Hall trumps him, and mainly on what I consider to be the most important QB stat TD/INT Ratio. If we look at the historical data, there is no reason to BELIEVE, not hope, that we have someone better to replace him. Not that I don't think one of these QBs will be better than DT, its just none of them have proven anything, and the track record doesn't like.

DT and Scott Hall their last two years:

Derek Thompson

---

Comp%: 61.0

YPA: 7.5

TD: 30

INT: 27

TD/INT Ratio: 1.1

Scott Hall

---

Comp%: 57.8

YPA: 8.5

TD: 27

INT: 9

TD/INT Ratio: 3.0

Andrew Smith was better than average, also. Add him to your list. I'd probably also say that Vizza had all the tools to be better than all of them, but that just ended disastrously.

So, we've had years where we should have had quality QBs in line, but for one reason or another they were unable to make it onto the field. This year feels like a return to the last few years of DD's tenure in that we have a big bag of unknown returning at QB.

UNT90 · June 6, 2014

Given the current QB crop and their current classification, how do they stack up against DT and Scott Hall when looking at their same classification, i.e. Sophomore DT vs. Sophomore McNulty?
From a development standpoint, I certainly would not expect a sophomore to come in and play like DT did in the bowl game. But I do expect an upgrade from where our current guys are in their learning process when compared to where DT and Scott were at the same point in their careers.

I'll definitely miss Bowl Game DT, but I am rooting for all of our current guys to be better off in the long run.

McNulty is a Junior.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 6, 2014

McNulty is a Junior.

Yes, but McNulty doesn't have a Junior year to look at stats.

H-towngreen · June 6, 2014

What is the basis for this hope?
You want a better QB, but will be fine if they just put up the same horrible numbers as DT?
You do realize that QBs are a product of the system. Our system calls for a bus driver.

Yes, bc we were able to win 9 games with that production.mthat would also be coming from a first year starter who should be getting better week by week.

They may be a product of the system but the system/bus driver shouldn't be putting up the ints that DT put up through his career.

H-towngreen · June 6, 2014

If DT was merely an average QB, then 95% of North Texas QBs over the years were god awful.

Haha....how long have you been following UNT football? This is a very accurate statement

Cerebus · June 6, 2014

Andrew Smith was better than average, also. Add him to your list.

Andrew Smith is one of my favorite players and I thought he was going to be a great one, but he died young and was never able to play as a seasoned upperclassman. His numbers do not stack up to DT or Scott Hall in any of the stats I listed.

We'll never know how good he could have been, and it's unfair to compare his stats at the start of his career to what DT/Hall did at the end of theirs, but that's all we have.

Since it's the ten year anniversary of his passing, we should do something for the scholarship fund.

This post has been promoted to an article

Edited June 6, 2014 by Cerebus

Ben Gooding · June 6, 2014

Wow. Just dismiss a QB that was the bowl game MVP and among the career leaders in multiple statistical categories.
Always amazes me how people think the back up, or in this case the back up's back up, will be better than a bowl MVP QB.
TD/Int ratio will be far worse this year with McNulty as a starter and Greer is a complete unknown, yet you already rate them as even with a career leader in stats and a bowl MVP?
Mark my words. You will be missing DT by mid season.

I might be missing something, but career leader in what stat? IMO it doesn't matter, the stat that matters most is td/int ratio and DT's sucked. If we can't replace a 1:1 ratio brace for impact ladies and gentlemen bc this season is going to be a disaster. I am fully confident that 1:1 can be replaced. I don't care what kind of "leader" DT was on the field. Replace 1:1 and we will have an eerie similar offense. I think folks forget that DT rode the coattails of an above average running game and a solid defense. What he did at North Texas, to me, wasn't anything special. 222 ypg with a 1:1 ratio. Please stop with the praising this guy. The bar should be set a little higher.

UNT90 · June 6, 2014

I might be missing something, but career leader in what stat? IMO it doesn't matter, the stat that matters most is td/int ratio and DT's sucked. If we can't replace a 1:1 ratio brace for impact ladies and gentlemen bc this season is going to be a disaster. I am fully confident that 1:1 can be replaced. I don't care what kind of "leader" DT was on the field. Replace 1:1 and we will have an eerie similar offense. I think folks forget that DT rode the coattails of an above average running game and a solid defense. What he did at North Texas, to me, wasn't anything special. 222 ypg with a 1:1 ratio. Please stop with the praising this guy. The bar should be set a little higher.

Meant among the career leaders in MANY statistical areas. By bad.

GOMG2013 · June 6, 2014

I might be missing something, but career leader in what stat? IMO it doesn't matter, the stat that matters most is td/int ratio and DT's sucked. If we can't replace a 1:1 ratio brace for impact ladies and gentlemen bc this season is going to be a disaster. I am fully confident that 1:1 can be replaced. I don't care what kind of "leader" DT was on the field. Replace 1:1 and we will have an eerie similar offense. I think folks forget that DT rode the coattails of an above average running game and a solid defense. What he did at North Texas, to me, wasn't anything special. 222 ypg with a 1:1 ratio. Please stop with the praising this guy. The bar should be set a little higher.

I dont think you can just go by stats. A qb can have a slightly better or the same ratio, but still have a worse record. especially if you add sacks and fumbles.

The bad games the ratio is going to be bad. We may be 0 tds, 2 ints after UT. Can the qb we have come back and win those winnable games. The next 2 games the ratio could be 2:1 & 2:1 which averages out to a 1:1 ratio.

GOMG2013 · June 6, 2014

I know we have been talking about qbs a lot and I am new to the mean green, but what about the wr talent over the years?

That has to have something to do with it too. Who are some of the top Wrs in unt history? Are there any?

Mean Green 93-98 · June 6, 2014

I know we have been talking about qbs a lot and I am new to the mean green, but what about the wr talent over the years?
That has to have something to do with it too. Who are some of the top Wrs in unt history? Are there any?

Some of the better WRs over the past decade would include Brelan Chancellor, Casey Fitzgerald, and Johnny Quinn. And they would also be some of the best WRs in UNT history.

We have also had our share of flops at the position. It seems the taller, the bigger, the faster, and the more stars, the less likely one of our WRs is to be successful.

pastorgrant · June 6, 2014

I know we have been talking about qbs a lot and I am new to the mean green, but what about the wr talent over the years?
That has to have something to do with it too. Who are some of the top Wrs in unt history? Are there any?

For Vizza, the problem wasn't receivers, it was that he was running for his life every other play. I wish we could have had him under better circumstances. I think we would have had some fun.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 6, 2014

For Vizza, the problem wasn't receivers, it was that he was running for his life every other play. I wish we could have had him under better circumstances. I think we would have had some fun.

I thought he was going to die during that Troy game.

SilverEagle · June 7, 2014

What is the basis for this hope?
Hope itself?

This has been the definition/explaination for loyal NT fans since.....well....forever. So don't fault him for using that as part of his evaluation process.

You want a better QB, but will be fine if they just put up the same horrible numbers as DT?
You do realize that QBs are a product of the system. Our system calls for a bus driver.
I really question whether Soza would have ever seen the field at UNT. Not the system QB that this head coach wants.

Then I wonder why Coach McCarney went on and on about his performance (other than to lighten the blow for his not fully preparing our team for the game) against us?
And that's fine. As long as you win.

Should be the bottom line for any QB.

Many on this board are either going to miss DT by the middle of the season, or they will be going DT who? To me, the only thing that DT had over the other three candidates coming into practice this fall is knowing what the heat of battle feels like and not letting it affect him like it would have his freshman year.

When it comes to that main issue (performing in a pressure game), I'll take a Soza over a DT just about any time.

My prediction (FWIW). McNulty will start the Texas game. At that point, Greer and Means will be in a close battle for the backup spot. Means will pull ahead of Greer by mid-season.

And as to UNTGuy5's slight-of-hand theory about hiding the real starter until the start of the Texas game. If any QB on the roster is a viable candidate for that scenario, it's Shanbour.

SilverEagle · June 7, 2014

Did Silver just suggest that the 5th string undersized walkon would be a good candidate to start at Texas using a slight-of-hand strategy of hiding the best QB?

Silver must have loved Gary Hogeboom as much as he loves pageantry.

Undersized? He's the same size as Soza....you remember him don't you?

I'm suggesting that if your going to slip someone in at the last minute that Texas knows nothing about, then Shanbour would be a better candidate. I don't know how well he moves around, but he can throw the ball better than McNulty and Greer and about the same as Means and Williams.

Everyone should love pagentry. It's the main thing that separates colleg FB from the pros.

I never liked GH, but I really liked Clint Longely....who would be a much better example for this "slip-the-unknown-QB-into-game" discussion.

golfingomez · June 7, 2014

My Theory:

What if DW is the no.1 in the minds of Mac and Chico, but they don't want to show their hand to UT? They have him fake in injury to miss the Spring Game, and then throughout Fall practice, the coaches continue to say he is 3rd on the depth chart until they finally select him as the starter the day before the UT game. Giving UT little time to prepare, and catching them on their heels. BOOM!

GOMG2013 · June 8, 2014

And I love pageantry. I just want one of my school's scholarship Qbs to start. If your guy starts we are totally F'ed. (bc it means that this staff can't recruit for shit and should be fired.)

Chico is over the offense. He is over recruiting for a majority of the spots. If chico likes them, mccarney is going to agree.

SilverEagle · June 8, 2014

You are ridiculous. Greer has a better arm than DT and was signed to compete for the starting job. And is 2nd or tied for 1st for the job.

I like to think of myself as someone who has an appreciation of, and flair for, the absurd. And as GreenMiner has pointed out in the past, I also have an above average ability to needle and provoke.

SHANBOUR IS 5TH STRING.

Take a minute and let that soak in.

Got it?

OK, here is what I said.

"I'm suggesting that if your going to slip someone in at the last minute that Texas knows nothing about, then Shanbour would be a better candidate."

Now, there is a word in that sentence that's called a qualifier. You might want to re-read the sentence and look for the word again.

Got it?

And I love pageantry. I just want one of my school's scholarship Qbs to start. If your guy starts we are totally F'ed. (bc it means that this staff can't recruit for shit and should be fired.)

Why are you so anal about a player having to be on a ship before they can start and contribute to the team? I think Casey Fitzgerald might be scratching his head over that attitude. And as to us being F'ed if Shanbour should go out on the field and be the bus driver? Well we're going to have to just respectfully disagree on that one.

Oh wait! You've already demonstrated your inability to do that.

Sorry.........

greenit · June 8, 2014

Silver I understood your post fine. I just can't understand why you would want a walk-on to even have a shot at starting at such an important position. Of all the positions out there, I want the guys the staff recruited and gave a scholarship to starting and holding down the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th team. I understand giving all the players a fair shake, but WR is a whole different ballgame than QB. If you bring in 4 players (5 if you include Bergland) and none of them are good enough to start at QB over a walk-on, then you really might have a recruiting problem.

BTW, a major reason that Fitz and Smith and these other walk-ons have made such an impact at WR is because we have recruited the position so damn poorly. Hopefully this recruiting class (2014) succeeds at the position and breaks that streak of washout 3 star WR recruits, going back to 2008.

And sorry for the tone of my post, it was late and I was cranky.

So is your position that a) regardless of who may or may not be the best player, scholarship players should be given the nod, and our coaches do not actively recruit walkons and transfers that they believe can contribute?

meangreendork · June 9, 2014

I always get confused if I typed in gomeangreen.com or ehmeangreen.com

I'm excited for all these guys to work hard and earn the starting spot. Ya know who is starting vs. Texas? The best man for the job. The guy who puts in a lot of work and grinds over the summer. When they have some down time, they are watching film. This competition should bring out the best in all, and they will push each other to get better. This is the best case scenario in my mind. No one is being handed anything, go get it.

Shoot, a year ago it was the same story. Majority didn't even want DT in there for his senior year. Why don't y'all quit doubting and being so pessimistic?

Derek proved a lot of y'all wrong and some of you still can't admit it and appreciate what he did.

I'm among those who were all, "Thompson? 1:1 TD/INT ratio Thompson? Man, we're in trouble", only to find myself in December, thinking, "Thompson had a damned good year."

And in January, thinking, "Holy hell, that guy has talent and more than anything, he's got serious heart."

Ben Gooding · June 9, 2014

I'm still among the guys who yawwwn and say 1:1. He was a key contributing player in loses more so than he was in wins. That was concerning to me. I wish him the best, but time to move on.

GrandGreen · June 12, 2014

Can't believe after Thompson's senior year that he still considered mediocre by so many obvious experts. Statistics in a vacuum don't mean much. Thompson didn't have big passing numbers because that was not the offense. Ever wonder why he was sacked so few times yet could hardly be considered ultra mobile. It was because he did not hold on to the ball long, so the team gave up few sacks. The other side of that is that he didn't compete many long slow developing passes.

I never would consider Thompson a great QB, but he did have a great year within NT's system. I have no doubt that some of the new QBs have equal or better skills, but it is going to be very difficult to develop the leadership ability that Thompson honed in 5 years in a much shorter span.

MeanGreenTexan · June 12, 2014

Can't believe after Thompson's senior year that he still considered mediocre by so many obvious experts. Statistics in a vacuum don't mean much. Thompson didn't have big passing numbers because that was not the offense. Ever wonder why he was sacked so few times yet could hardly be considered ultra mobile. It was because he did not hold on to the ball long, so the team gave up few sacks. The other side of that is that he didn't compete many long slow developing passes.
I never would consider Thompson a great QB, but he did have a great year within NT's system. I have no doubt that some of the new QBs have equal or better skills, but it is going to be very difficult to develop the leadership ability that Thompson honed in 5 years in a much shorter span.

He had a heckuva O-line for his last 2 years as well.