Bo Bergdahl

[EagleGreen]

Problem is, when there are 50k plus Hiroo Onoda's still occupying the Afgan mountains and still wanting to kill Americans, it's a little more serious than the typical left wing Internet joke.

You jokey jokester.

Yes, when there are only 49,995 (+) and they have one of our guys, that's not really newsworthy. We'd rather talk about an Arizona VA hospital. But I tell ya what, you release 5 more to get our guy back and make that number 50,000 (+) .... I mean to tell ya, that's not jokeyable, that's serious shiut!

[meangreendork]

About Bergdahl: Dude's probably a deserter. It's probably a damned good idea to bring him back and try him under the UCMJ so he gets the punishment he deserves. It's also probably a good idea to get him back so he doesn't cough up any more useful information to the Taliban than he may already have.

About the released detainees: The US seems to be ceasing formal hostilities, which means that these guys have to be let go per the Geneva Convention (and yeah, this wasn't a declared war and the Taliban is a non-state actor). The other thing these guys are - they're potential intelligence assets, and not because of what they know.

It's who they know and who those people know. If it were me, I'd put people and drones on these guys from the day they start their year in Qatar until they die. Who they talk to, where they go, and what they do can be great information. So while these guys may be squeezed empty of useful information, their contacts back home are not. This means both contacts US intelligence knows about and more importantly, ones that are yet to be revealed and ones yet to be created.

I figure these guys are going to go right back to work or they're gonna be killed by their own people. Might as well work both to US advantage.

[UNT90]

Do we know Sgt. Bergdahl is a deserter? No. Do we know he aided the enemy? No. Are Taliban considered "high-ranking" on any scale? No.

We also don't know if he's a good guy, but he did serve his country. If he left his post by choice, and we don't know that, we still have to determine if he did it as a planned event under sound mind (then he could be a deserter). If he was not of sound mind, then we have to find out why. If his mental issues are due to military activity, he's a wounded warrior. There are a lot of factors to figure out besides just ignorantly determining this guys status, intentions, and consequences without all facts. Thoughts?

We do know he left his post by choice. Watch the news. He absolutely deserves a very fair military tribunal for desertion.

http://time.com/2818827/taliban-bergdahl-pow-release-objections-white-house/

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/4/congress-twice-rejected-release-of-taliban-from-gi/

So Pres. Obama was told no twice, promised to come back if he was going to try again, then made up a "medical condition" which allows his administration to hide behind HIPPA laws and just did what he wanted to do in the first place.

Wonderful.

If this was Bush, the calls for impeachment from Matt, CBL, 66 and the like would be ringing in our ears.

But it's Pres. Obama, so it's ok.

The national media would also be throwing a MAJOR hissy fit if this were a conservative, but it's THEIR president, so it's ok.

And that is why Pres. Obama did it. He knew there would be little to no repercussions.

And he is right.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

About Bergdahl: Dude's probably a deserter. It's probably a damned good idea to bring him back and try him under the UCMJ so he gets the punishment he deserves. It's also probably a good idea to get him back so he doesn't cough up any more useful information to the Taliban than he may already have.

About the released detainees: The US seems to be ceasing formal hostilities, which means that these guys have to be let go per the Geneva Convention (and yeah, this wasn't a declared war and the Taliban is a non-state actor). The other thing these guys are - they're potential intelligence assets, and not because of what they know.

It's who they know and who those people know. If it were me, I'd put people and drones on these guys from the day they start their year in Qatar until they die. Who they talk to, where they go, and what they do can be great information. So while these guys may be squeezed empty of useful information, their contacts back home are not. This means both contacts US intelligence knows about and more importantly, ones that are yet to be revealed and ones yet to be created.

I figure these guys are going to go right back to work or they're gonna be killed by their own people. Might as well work both to US advantage.

.

--- We sent him over so we should bring him back ... even if he is in chains or put into a mental hospital (he may be nuts and couldn't handle combat) ... This is not the best deal we have ever made but we had those guys for 10 years in Gitmo. I'm guessing that once Obama took office he realized Gitmo really did serve as purpose but it is nothing like when he took office with 100's there and waterboarding taking place.... I'm also guessing he wasn't fully informed about him either ....First the media and White house was considering him a hero as well as his hometown which has since cancelled their welcome home activities..... Interesting that his section commander supports bring him home saying the military doesn't leave military people behind. ..Lock him up if he was a deserter and not nuts.

Your suggestions... that or something similar may be happening... we just aren't told. I'm guessing we will know who they contact (their buddies may be dead) . The currently actives may steer way clear of them because of that.

Edited June 5, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[EagleGreen]

We do know suspect he left his post by choice. Watch the news. He absolutely deserves a very fair military tribunal for desertion to tell his side of the story and have it equally weighted by his supervisor of record.

http://time.com/2818827/taliban-bergdahl-pow-release-objections-white-house/

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/4/congress-twice-rejected-release-of-taliban-from-gi/

Only this last hyperlink suggests that since his [stuff] was still in place after disappearing, his mates SUSPECTED he had left on his own accord. So maybe, maybe not. Right?

So Pres. Obama was told no twice, promised to come back if he was going to try again, then made up a was told about a "medical condition" which allows his administration to hide behind utilize HIPPA laws and just did what he wanted to do in the first place to get a U.S. soldier released.

Wonderful.

If this was Bush, the calls for impeachment from Matt, CBL, 66 and the like would be ringing in our ears. TRUE

But it's Pres. Obama, so it's ok. NOT TRUE. Do you watch FAUX NEWS? This mainstream media outlet wants The President of The United States ousted for this. They are on him like flies on a turd.

The national media would also be throwing a MAJOR hissy fit if this were a conservative, but it's THEIR president, so it's ok. See above

And that is why Pres. Obama did it. He knew there would be little to no repercussions. this was the only way to get a U.S. Soldier out of scum bag territory since the house fights him on all ideas even if their own.

And he is right.

Whew...this looks a little better now.

[UNTexas]

Deserted? Throw him in prison if he deserted because better men than he died looking for his pathetic self absorbed ass. His entire unit doesn't dispute he is a deserter either. The US use to execute deserters. Now, the president holds press conferences with his parents as props in a pathetic PR stunt that has backfired. The entire story is pathetic.

Additionally, how many members of our military and our allies' militaries died to capture these 5 Taliban leaders that Obama let walk in exchange for a deserter?

[EagleGreen]

Deserted? Throw him in prison if he deserted because better men than he died looking for his pathetic self absorbed ass. His entire unit doesn't dispute he is a deserter either. The US use to execute deserters. Now, the president holds press conferences with his parents as props in a pathetic PR stunt that has backfired. The entire story is pathetic.

Additionally, how many members of our military and our allies' militaries died to capture these 5 Taliban leaders that Obama let walk in exchange for a deserter?

I'll play your game...how many?

[UNT90]

Whew...this looks a little better now.

Lol.

So many many things. Don't know why you think the Taliban know what HIPPA is, much less respect it, so no HIPAA didn't help obtain the release of an American soldier/possible deserter, but sure provides a convenient cover to not release the "emergency medical condition" Bo was "experiencing" when he walk to the helicopter and climbed aboard.

Also, I guess you haven't seen the news reports interviewing former members of his unit. They are pretty convinced he deserted, and they were there:

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/06/04/baltimore-soldier-who-fought-alongside-bowe-bergdahl-claims-hes-a-traitor-and-deserter/

There goes the big book deal.

American troops also stopped looking for him fairly quickly, something not done for those that are actually kidnapped by the enemy or lost in battle.

Yes, he deserves to tell his side, but evidence has already been collected at the time of his disappearance. Pretty clear the White House had access to and ignored all of it in the hopes of making quick political hay .

Edited June 5, 2014 by UNT90

[UNTexas]

I'll play your game...how many?

It's no game. I honestly want to know. It was a question. If the answer is higher than one then the price is too high for this soldier if he is indeed a deserter.

If he's a deserter then he should have remained with the Taliban he ran to. I could give a damn about his grieving parents as well. We should grieve for the 5 soldiers we know died on the operation to find him. If he's no deserter, then its horrible all around. If he is, their deaths are on him.

As far as the 5 Taliban, they'll be fighting again soon enough. It's garbage.

[UNT90]

Yes, when there are only 49,995 (+) and they have one of our guys, that's not really newsworthy. We'd rather talk about an Arizona VA hospital. But I tell ya what, you release 5 more to get our guy back and make that number 50,000 (+) .... I mean to tell ya, that's not jokeyable, that's serious shiut!

5 leaders of the Taliban. Do you seriously not understand the difference between leaders and very effective sheep herders with a gun?

[EagleGreen]

5 leaders of the Taliban. Do you seriously not understand the difference between leaders and very effective sheep herders with a gun?

I think they are all scum bags and would never give them credit as "leaders" or "very effective". I can tell you that those 5 may be exceptional scum bags but they won't make a large scale difference in the "war." They will do what scumbags do, along with the other 49,995 scumbags.

[UNTexas]

5 leaders of the Taliban. Do you seriously not understand the difference between leaders and very effective sheep herders with a gun?

I like the "very effective sheep herders with a gun". That made me laugh.

I just don't see how people can't understand if this guy was going to be cleared of desertion then it would have happened years ago. If he was cleared the White House would be touting him being cleared every moment of the day on every outlet possible. You simply cannot trade Taliban leadership for a deserter. If he were not a deserter I'd say the trade was right on. However, it's not the case.

[FirefightnRick]

If I read this correctly,.....

Apparently you didnt since I did not write the report. Time Magezine did.

Anyways, here's what I give 2 F--ks about.

"Gold Star mom: 'This guy was worth my son's life?'

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140602/NEWS/306020055/Gold-Star-mom-guy-worth-my-son-s-life

Rick

[Rudy]

From what I have heard, the Tailban only wanted a one for one trade. We decide to give them 5 commanders! Also, Obama is required by law to give Congress 30 days notice prior. A law which he signed into effect.

On top of everything else that smells fishy, I was afriad that he had converted and turned. It seems that today this may be the case. He looked very healthy at the time of thr trade, his father's comments, and it makes no sense why you would just go off base, UNARMED.

This just smells bad.

[UNT90]

Maybe this will concern some, but I'm sure the political cheerleaders on here will sluff it off because it isn't from MSNBNC:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/05/exclusive-bergdahl-declared-jihad-secret-documents-show/

"Clarridge said Eclipse SITREP # 3023, dated Aug. 23, 2012 -- in which a member of the Haqqani network, said to be close to Bergdahl's captors, reported that the American prisoner had declared himself a "mujahid" -- was among the reports provided to Ashley."

"Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid. Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion. Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and bounds around the pitch like a mad man. He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying 'Salaam' repeatedly".

Ya, no chance of this guy ever committing jihad on fellow Americans, right?

Edited June 6, 2014 by UNT90

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

My question is did we have to give them the Taliban leaders first or something? I wouldn't be totally above doing the old bait-and-switch, we aren't really dealing with a realm that falls into international laws. Would we really get too much backlash from tricking terrorists?

[TheTastyGreek]

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/5/5780772/tweets-bergdahl-conservatives-politics-stupid

Team sports politics is stupid, and it makes people stupid. And intolerable.

Now, you can find people saying just about anything if you search long enough on Twitter. But these tweets perfectly demonstrate the larger principle that politics makes you stupid. A raft of social science research finds that people seek out facts that prove their political worldview correct, and ignore or reject the ones that challenge it. It's so bad that, in experiments, people reject the right answers to math problems when their conclusion is ideologically threatening.

So it is with Bergdahl, and beyond just these tweets. From the get-go, the POW's release was politicized: the White House held a Rose Garden ceremony announcing his release. That's about as close to a literal victory lap as you could get.

As a consequence, the issue became an important part of each political tribe's defining identity. If you're a liberal, you had to believe that Obama did the right thing freeing Bergdahl. If you're a conservative, you needed to believe that Obama screwed up.

So immediately, two sets of facts emerged. As the collected tweets prove, people just totally transformed their beliefs about Bergdahl to fit the more politically convenient conclusion. As a consequence, the legitimate issues about his release — whether Obama broke the law, for instance — are in danger of being ignored.

[Quoner]

He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying 'Salaam' repeatedly".

I love the 94 Buffaloes as much as the next guy, but that's kind of weird. What true American would celebrate the worst Heisman winner ever?

[TheTastyGreek]

I love the 94 Buffaloes as much as the next guy, but that's kind of weird. What true American would celebrate the worst Heisman winner ever?

Gino Torretta's parents?

[Mean Green 93-98]

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/5/5780772/tweets-bergdahl-conservatives-politics-stupid

Team sports politics is stupid, and it makes people stupid. And intolerable.

Of course that's how Obama wants to paint the response--all politics.

Two top lawmakers on the Senate Intelligence Committee said Tuesday that the Obama administration broke the law by not informing Congress before the prisoner exchange that resulted in Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl’s release.

Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss said the administration violated the law by failing to address serious concerns they had about the deal to swap Bergdahl for five Taliban detainees. Chambliss said he had not had a conversation with the White House about a possible exchange for at least 18 months.

"It comes to us with some surprise and dismay that the transfers went ahead with no consultation, totally not following law," Feinstein told reporters following a closed door meeting. "And in an issue with this kind of concern to a committee that bears the oversight responsibility, I think you can see that we're very dismayed about it ."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bergdahl-storm-20140605-story.html

The fury in Congress was bipartisan, with some senior Democrats firing broadsides as the White House sent emissaries to apologize to key lawmakers and to promise better engagement in the future.

"I think that they expected everybody just to fall in line," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and one of those who received a personal apology from a senior White House aide.

Feinstein said the White House failed to anticipate that bypassing Congress would provoke anger on both sides of the aisle. The discovery that the five Afghans were top-ranking Taliban commanders has fueled concerns that the trade may endanger U.S. security.

"This is an issue that certainly those of us on the Intelligence Committee care a great deal about," Feinstein said. "Because we believe that there is potential danger from certain of these five people."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bergdahl-storm-20140605-story.html

The red-state Democrat [Joe Manchin] did not buy one of the administration’s reasons for the swap: Bergdahl's deteriorating health. The senators on Wednesday viewed the proof-of-life video of the sergeant – estimated to have been taken in December – but Senator Manchin thought it merely showed a man who was “drugged,” not necessarily a man in ill health. Some senators agreed, while others said Bergdahl “did not look good,” or “did not look like a well person,” and noted that he stuttered.

“We all agree that we’re not dealing with a war hero,” Manchin said, adding that he wants to see an internal investigation of Bergdahl, including what those who served with him said at the time of his disappearance five years ago. The New York Times reported Thursday that a classified report completed two months after Bergdahl left his unit in Afghanistan concluded he most likely walked away of his own free will. The report also found that Bergdahl had “wandered away from assigned areas before,” the Times wrote. The classified report did not conclude that there is evidence Bergdahl had permanently deserted.

Manchin, like many Republicans, is concerned about the potential for the five freed Taliban to return to the fight and kill Americans. The men are now under a travel ban in Qatar, with that government’s promise to monitor them for at least a year. The senator is upset, too, that the administration did not notify Congress of the prisoner release 30 days before it happened, as required by law.

That also riled two leading Democrats on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, chairwoman Dianne Feinstein of California and Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia. They refuted a claim, made by White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough during a Tuesday lunch with Senate Democrats, that Congress had been in the loop about a swap. Only Senate majority leader Harry Reid (D) of Nevada knew about the prisoner trade in advance.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2014/0605/Why-Obama-s-deal-to-free-Bowe-Bergdahl-riles-Democrats-too-video

[TheTastyGreek]

That's weird... I didn't think Obama wrote that article or did the searching it was based on.

If he did, though, I guess it was terrible and I hate it.

[All About UNT]

Here is a link to the case files on each of the five Taliban guys

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/02/bowe-bergdahl-was-traded-for-5-taliban-commanders-heres-who-they-are/

Most surrendered to the Northern Alliance right after we started our bombing campaign and well before most of our boots hit the ground. I don't see them as near as much of a threat to us as they are to the existing government in Kabul.

One was actually a close friend of Karzai and Mullah Omar told him he had to stop this relationship. I agree that any and all relevant info we were going to get out of them has already been acquired. I laugh at the concept of Bergdahl being a Manchurian Candidate operative but I would not put it past our guys to somehow have placed trackers with the 5 we released.

[UNT90]

Here is a link to the case files on each of the five Taliban guys

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/02/bowe-bergdahl-was-traded-for-5-taliban-commanders-heres-who-they-are/

Most surrendered to the Northern Alliance right after we started our bombing campaign and well before most of our boots hit the ground. I don't see them as near as much of a threat to us as they are to the existing government in Kabul.

One was actually a close friend of Karzai and Mullah Omar told him he had to stop this relationship. I agree that any and all relevant info we were going to get out of them has already been acquired. I laugh at the concept of Bergdahl being a Manchurian Candidate operative but I would not put it past our guys to somehow have placed trackers with the 5 we released.

A threat to the government in Kabul is a threat to US security. Afghanistan returning to Talibans hands means the return of a safe haven for Al Queda throughout the country.

Bergdahl has been described as mentally unstable before joining the other side. Do you really not see a threat from a mentally unstable person that has had 5 or 6 years of conditioning by the enemy?

[UNT90]

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/5/5780772/tweets-bergdahl-conservatives-politics-stupid

Team sports politics is stupid, and it makes people stupid. And intolerable.

Or you can believe the troops that actually served with the man, regardless of their political leanings.

But there is some truth to this article, as even this very article attempts to create its own political narrative, that narrative being that you should just sit down, shut up, and not question anything, because if you do, you are just a moron picking a political side.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was written by a staffer for Pres. Obama or a staffer for a democratic congressman.

Edited June 6, 2014 by UNT90

[Coffee and TV]

Good job guys. Let's kill a town's celebration for a POW's release because we hate Obama that much.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648874/Mayor-cancels-plan-welcome-home-celebration-Hailey-Idaho-honor-freed-POW-Bowe-Bergdahl-local-Army-commander-calls-monstrous-profanity.html