HOW BYU COULD SHAKE UP THE G5 LANDSCAPE

[Harry]

Yet another program finds itself in the midst of a scheduling quandary as a result of the P5 conferences decision to schedule games that will enhance the profile of their resumes in order to compete in the College Playoff system set to begin this fall. This time however, the school that finds itself in the cross hairs of this decision, is the storied and powerful independent, BYU. When the ACC announced that BYU would not count as P5 competition for scheduling purposes within the ACC schedule mandates, a potential major hurdle was placed in front of the traditionally competitive BYU program.

The college football landscape is going through its most dramatic overhaul in more than 2 decades. The new College Playoff system threatens to place schools like BYU on the outside looking in on the P5's competitive and financial advantage. This is all the more dramatic for BYU, as it was only a few short years ago that the program was mentioned as a serious candidate for the B12. Now however, BYU finds itself in the same boat as the rest of the G5 schools, wondering what the new scheduling philosophy means to them long term.

BYU seems to be heading towards a crossroads in terms of its ability to maintain its independent status and remain relevant in the FBS. Serious thought to joining one of the G5 conferences has now become a necessity instead of a luxury for the nationally known BYU program. In a move to reduce some of the sting from the new scheduling reality in FBS football, BYU has already begun a quasi relationship with the AAC. Something that that American Conference and BYU can both potentially benefit from.

Read more: http://g5conferencenews.blogspot.com/2014/05/byu-and-g5-how-byu-could-shake-up-g5.html?m=1

[Ben Gooding]

BYU potentially in the AAC? These conference realignments make no geographical sense. The MWC would be a good fit for them geographically, CUSA-West would also make more sense than the AAC. I guess the underlying theme to everything in the 21st century in America is money, money, money.

[forevereagle]

BYU potentially in the AAC? These conference realignments make no geographical sense. The MWC would be a good fit for them geographically, CUSA-West would also make more sense than the AAC. I guess the underlying theme to everything in the 21st century in America is money, money, money.

They already rode out of the MWC on their high horse so it would be admitting that they were wrong to come back.

[DirtySavage]

Surprised the Pac12 hasn't come calling. That's what would make the most sense...

They would be a better addition than Utah or Colorado were.

[forevereagle]

Surprised the Pac12 hasn't come calling. That's what would make the most sense...

They would be a better addition than Utah or Colorado were.

BYU won't play any sports on Sunday and that is a bit of a sticking point for the PAC-12 as I understand it. Comes into play with the Olympic sports and causes some scheduling issues.

[Arkstfan]

BYU's policies on homosexuality have far more to do with the Pac-12 not admitting them than Sunday play.

BYU is struggling to schedule, their expectation that every G5 would clamor for a home and home isn't panning out.

But they'd have to have accomodations to join AAC because BYU makes a million more per year in TV money.

[untjim1995]

BYU is a true tweener program. They have a great national following and winning tradition. They have their own network. But their views on social issues, not saying whether they are right or wrong, is where the Pac-12 avoids them like the plague. And, the Big XII would be a great fit for them, but they would just be another school that takes more money away from the other 10 teams, so that seems to be the sticking point now. I still think that they will end up in the Big XII, though, with Cincy, at some point in the next 5 years. The BIg XII is going to have to get back to 12 teams to have conference championship game like the other P5 conferences do, as well as to "soften" their schedules by not playing everyone in the league, just like the other P5 leagues currently do.

[Cerebus]

I guess the underlying theme to everything in the 21st century in America since the invention of currency is money, money, money.

Fixed.

ETA: Which was originally metal disks handed out by temples as a receipt for stored grain in Sumer. The Sumerians built the first cities, and had the first system of writing.

In other words you really can't have a human civilization without money.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Cerebus

[Ben Gooding]

Fixed.

ETA: Which was originally metal disks handed out by temples as a receipt for stored grain in Sumer. The Sumerians built the first cities, and had the first system of writing.

In other words you really can't have a human civilization without money.

I was more along the lines talking about free market capitalism. As in all ideas or decisions on all things are based upon that capitalism. We are consuming ourselves to death, so whatever. The capitalistic approach won't last forever. Bank on it.

[Cerebus]

I was more along the lines talking about free market capitalism. As in all ideas or decisions on all things are based upon that capitalism. We are consuming ourselves to death, so whatever. The capitalistic approach won't last forever. Bank on it.

I'd love to hear your ideas for a better system. But not here, go start a thread in the Eagles Nest.

But as a quick aside, you do realize that pretty much every single large civilization has resource starved itself into extinction WAAAAAAY before Smith wrote the Wealth of Nations?

[GrayEagle]

There is no doubt that BYU belongs in the P5 but it's not going to happen anytime soon. They're best bet for the moment is the Mountain West. It might take a little pride-swallowing but that's better than the alternative.

I have a little food for thought. How about North Texas and Brigham Young join the MWC? It's been known for awhile that Commissioner Thompson would like to have presence in the DFW market. SMU isn't going west and would likely try to keep us out of the AAC.

By my calculations the two additions would give the MWC parity with the AAC. I calculated the average of the new AAC configuration based on last year's Massey Consensus ( more than 100 computer rankings) and the mean was 75.67. If BYU and UNT were added to the MWC alignment that average ranking would be 74.57.

Yes, I know that we just changed conference affiliation but the CUSA landscape has changed considerably. Not to knock our members at all but this is a chance for a stronger conference. Another argument I'll hear is that there are no driveable conference games. That is the one true drawback. But a division consisting of New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, BYU and Utah State would be palatable. I believe that all are one time zone away. There would only be one conference game per year on Pacific (or Hawaiian) time.

Edited May 20, 2014 by GrayEagle

[UNTexas]

There is no doubt that BYU belongs in the P5 but it's not going to happen anytime soon. They're best bet for the moment is the Mountain West. It might take a little pride-swallowing but that's better than the alternative.

I have a little food for thought. How about North Texas and Brigham Young join the MWC? It's been known for awhile that Commissioner Thompson would like to have presence in the DFW market. SMU isn't going west and would likely try to keep us out of the AAC.

By my calculations the two additions would give the MWC parity with the AAC. I calculated the average of the new AAC configuration based on last year's Massey Consensus ( more than 100 computer rankings) and the mean was 75.67. If BYU and UNT were added to the MWC alignment that average ranking would be 74.57.

Yes, I know that we just changed conference affiliation but the CUSA landscape has changed considerably. Not to knock our members at all but this is a chance for a stronger conference. Another argument I'll hear is that there are no driveable conference games. That is the one true drawback. But a division consisting of New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, BYU and Utah State would be palatable. I believe that all are one time zone away. There would only be one conference game per year on Pacific (or Hawaiian) time.

The Big West wasn't good for us. Going west isn't a good fit for us either. Playing teams that our fans give a crap about is better for the program. Playing teams in our region is good. For instant playing Rice is far far more interesting than San Diego State which almost no one would care about in Denton nor San Diego. The same would hold true for much of the MWC. Plus our fans aren't going to travel out west.

[Mean Green 93-98]

The Big West wasn't good for us. Going west isn't a good fit for us either. Playing teams that our fans give a crap about is better for the program. Playing teams in our region is good. For instant playing Rice is far far more interesting than San Diego State which almost no one would care about in Denton nor San Diego. The same would hold true for much of the MWC. Plus our fans aren't going to travel out west.

Mountain West >C-USA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Big West

[untjim1995]

Mountain West >C-USA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Big West

This.

Games today against Boise State, Nevada, and Utah State are about 180 degrees from what they were like in the Big West days, when we played in a toilet of a stadium and were brand new to FBS ball after a 12-year demotion to 1-AA purgatory.

If anyone thinks that a game in Denton against Air Force, Colorado State, or Fresno State wouldn't get more attention from the DFW public, which still includes most UNT fans and alums, than a home game against most of CUSAs teams, I don't know what to say.

[MeanGreenTexan]

The Big West wasn't good for us. Going west isn't a good fit for us either. Playing teams that our fans give a crap about is better for the program. Playing teams in our region is good. For instant playing Rice is far far more interesting than San Diego State which almost no one would care about in Denton nor San Diego. The same would hold true for much of the MWC. Plus our fans aren't going to travel out west.

For all the benefits playing in a conference with Rice & UTEP (and I guess UTSA, & maybe even LA Tech) bring, some of the same teams everyone on here was bellyaching about are also still in our conference (FAU, FIU, MT, WKY), as well as some FBS Startups (UTSA, Old Dominion, UNC-C)...

Conference USA is great! But, if we want to keep moving up the NCAA ladder, MWC would be the ideal next step. We need to stop thinking about what's convenient for us (which, has gone on the entire time I've been around UNT), but what's better for the program as a whole.

[Ben Gooding]

Moving to MWC, particularly if BYU went as well, would be a monumental leap for North Texas athletics. I would rather play Utah St, Fresno, SDSU, BYU, Nevada, Colo St and Boise than any conference opponent we currently have aside of Rice. Having Boise coming to Apogee every other year would put more butts in seats than ANY team on our current home schedule for the next 3 years. Multiple games could potentially not match the attendance of getting Boise once. It would put the best non-P5 football programs in Denton every single year. The one downfall to all of this would be traveling to conference games. We could still schedule home and home OOC games with Rice, La Tech etc. to keep traveling to some away games manageable. However, there are far more pros than cons, far more. This would be a legitimate turning point for this program. And if the MWC commish wants a DFW connection...why the hell has this ball not been put in motion?

Edited May 20, 2014 by Ben Gooding

[Mean Green 93-98]

To the great points that have been brought up, I might add the MWC is probably a more likely route to a P5 conference than C-USA. The MWC and AAC are peer conferences. As far as its teams' athletic quality and reputation, the new C-USA is clearly a step below them. Any P5 conference looking to add is going to go to those conferences before plucking from C-USA.

Consider that TCU left the old C-USA--which is basically the same as the AAC, and far better than the new C-USA--to go to the Mountain West. And the Mountain West was their direct route to the Big XII.

Other than the departure of Utah--who also went straight to a P5 conference--the Mountain West has been largely left intact, while C-USA has been decimated for no real purpose other than to re-assemble under a different name.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Mean Green 93-98

[UNTexas]

Fresno State? Seriously? People in the Metroplex aren't going to line up for Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State, UNLV, ect. I think we would compete just fine and proved that on January 1st. If any CUSA is headed to the MWC it's UTEP.

Anyway you slice it, non P5 conferences will always be on the outside looking in. MWC was talking a merger of sorts with CUSA like 5 minutes ago. It's not some massive step up. Heck, if we were, and we aren't conference shopping, the AAC would be better for us in my opinion. Not that it's even and option.

At the end of the day, in the current landscape there is nothing wrong with CUSA for us. We should, I don't know, maybe win a conference championship before everyone thinks our britches are all big?

Edited May 20, 2014 by UNTexas

[Ben Gooding]

Nothing about having big britches? Whatever that means? It's about the best case scenario for TV contracts, attendance, revenue, etc. and MWC believe it or not is a big step up from CUSA. There are 3 schools in CUSA that 5 years ago I didn't even know existed. That is not a good thing in perception, and everything is about perception. The perception of CUSA is crumbling.

[oldguystudent]

As long as we stay one step ahead of and away from Karl Benson we'll be fine.

[Mean Green 93-98]

At the end of the day, in the current landscape there is nothing wrong with CUSA for us.

Agreed. Even though the C-USA we joined is a far cry from the C-USA we had been trying to join for years, it's still a small step up from the Belt. And it's a pretty good fit for us for the time being.

We should, I don't know, maybe win a conference championship before everyone thinks our britches are all big?

It's not that I think that we're too good for C-USA. We were picked for C-USA over some teams in the Belt that had owned us for the previous several years. But I wasn't about to suggest extending them the courtesy of letting them go first. We have to do what's best for us, and seize whatever opportunities come our way. If the opportunity to join the MWC does not come in the near future, I'll enjoy North Texas football and other sports in C-USA. But that doesn't mean we should let opportunities pass us by.

[UNTexas]

Nothing about having big britches? Whatever that means? It's about the best case scenario for TV contracts, attendance, revenue, etc. and MWC believe it or not is a big step up from CUSA. There are 3 schools in CUSA that 5 years ago I didn't even know existed. That is not a good thing in perception, and everything is about perception. The perception of CUSA is crumbling.

Not saying you said we are too big for our britches but that seems to be the undertone of much of our fan base since January. We've had one good season in like a decade and competed in CUSA for a year, which we didn't win the conference and people are talking like we need to shop conferences again. Our goal should be to win CUSA. Win and maybe we will go to a better fit for the program in the future. I believe we should try and go to a better conference once we can actually compete with the big boys. One good year didn't prove anything. If we suck next season it will be a disaster. There is a real chance we start 0-2 as well but that's another discussion. I'm just not sold that this program has been turned around. This team has broken my heart far to many times.

All that being said, I truly believe there is zero reason why a university the size of UNT shouldn't be competing with the big programs in every sport. If that means our goal is a P5 conference then I hope I live to see it.

[greenit]

Not saying you said we are too big for our britches but that seems to be the undertone of much of our fan base since January. We've had one good season in like a decade and competed in CUSA for a year, which we didn't win the conference and people are talking like we need to shop conferences again. Our goal should be to win CUSA. Win and maybe we will go to a better fit for the program in the future. I believe we should try and go to a better conference once we can actually compete with the big boys. One good year didn't prove anything. If we suck next season it will be a disaster. There is a real chance we start 0-2 as well but that's another discussion. I'm just not sold that this program has been turned around. This team has broken my heart far to many times.

All that being said, I truly believe there is zero reason why a university the size of UNT shouldn't be competing with the big programs in every sport. If that means our goal is a P5 conference then I hope I live to see it.

No kidding. It is starting to sound like the aggie around here sometimes in terms of what we've done recently when what we've done is not even finish in the top few in our conference. Edited May 21, 2014 by greenit

[GrayEagle]

In a perfect world we would win a few conference championships and get our attendance up to a consistent 30,000 before we tried to make a move. This is not a perfect world. If we waited until then there might be no place to go. The landscape is changing and could be stabilized by the time we have won a championship or two.

The better the competition the easier recruiting becomes. Have you ever tried to get a friend to come to Apogee on game day and be told no thanks when told who we were playing? I have...many times. This is not a knock on CUSA teams it's just that they are less well-known in this area. Only Rice, UTEP, Southern Miss and North Texas have been around for 50 years or more. La Tech has been in the FBS at least 25. Most of the rest have been in the FBS for about ten years or less. This will be UTSA's second season, Old Dominion's first and Charlotte won't start until next year. So, maybe we haven't been in CUSA but a year but we've been a major college/Division 1-A/FBS team for a long time in spite of a twelve year drop to Division 1-AA because our administration wouldn't sustain support.

Our Athletic Department, coaches and players believe that we can play with anyone in the country. We are the 25th largest university in the country and the 4th largest TV market. There are more than 5.8 million people in Denton County and the counties that it abuts. We are in the heart of one of the most fertile recruiting areas in the United States. We'll soon know if we're for real and I believe that we are.

If BYU needs a partner for conference membership I hope that we are allowed to help them..

[NM Green]

ACC or bust. Beat Texas, get into the top 25, win CUSA and sell North Texas like Jones does Jerryworld and leap into the big boy conferences. Miami, Florida State and Va Tech and Clemson would not mind a bit dragging their programs into the lucrative athletic market of DFW every year.

GMG