Nine teams with only 5 home games in 2014

[GrandGreen]

Logic?

You are perfectly ok with having to buy hone games 3 years in a row, meanwhile the year after we stop buying home games, we have our second 5 game home season in 4 years.

So, ya, we are ULM, except we don't get the occasional marque home game. Ever.

We talk about beating a team that matters. You think there is a better chance of that happening in Austin or at Apogee? If you can never play those teams at home, it makes the chances of that win very slim.

As someone posted, UCF got UT for the opening of their stadium. We get Houston.

Houston.

Why do you think UT scheduled that game? Recruiting Florida, right? We have the sane futile recruiting ground to offer, yet never get anything done.

SMU is getting it done, why aren't we?

Your solution is just to accept the way things have always been and ignore everything that has been done to elevate this program the last 10 years. And we wonder why Mean Green Club membership is stagnant. You want the status quo? You got it.

Just never expect anything more, because you won't get it.

As far as what basketball has to do with it, last I looked RV is responsible for both football scheduling and the hiring and retainment of Benford. But, hey, how can we expect poor RV to be able to keep up with all this responsibility, right? I mean, he's a good guy that cries all the time because he CARES so much. Who cares if he is actually effective, right?

Great followup. Just ignore facts and go on and on. Are you capable of basic math? In the same comment, you lament having to buy home games and having only 5 home games. Again, in case you actually read what you are responding to; if you play an away guarantee game, those are the only two options. The only solution is to stop playing the guarantee away and cut expenses and competitiveness because the financial reality is that even with a full stadium NT cannot replace those dollars. I

After bothering to give you the actual ULM schedule and you still hold ULM schedule s better, is almost unbelievable. The occasional marque game with Baylor and Wake Forest, while only having 2 home oc games in one season in 7 years and that in a year they had 5 oc games. Yes, that is amazing scheduling.

I really like your insight that it would be easier to beat UT in Apogee than in Austin. I never would have thought that. Again basic math, the gate just from ticket sales at UT averages over $10m a game. If they pay NT $1m that is a net of $9m before expenses and other revenues such as parking, concessions, required donations, etc. NT assuming they could sell out the UT game at an average of $60 a ticket would generate $1.2m assuming 10k student seats. NT could give the entire gate to UT and UT would still lose millions compared to buying a home game. You are dealing with similar numbers with all the name power schools.

UT is not likely to schedule NT for recruiting purposes because they annually already play in Dallas. They do, however, usually play oc home and away series unlike some of the powers. Again not likely because of their annual game in Dallas as well as future games in Jerry World.

As far as being satisfied with the status quo, no and few fans are. However, most deal somewhat in the real world and understand that it is a lot more challenging than you seem to think. If you bothered to check, you would know that I am far from the fan you describe and have been as critical as anyone about the AD's efforts. However, I don't expect magic.

Edited May 22, 2014 by GrandGreen

[untjim1995]

Despite the ravings of '90 & his ilk RV has done more for athletics at UNT than anyone in history. A great new stadium. A great athletics complex. Good hires (for the most part). A move up in conference affiliation. Better academic performance from our athletes.

Some people will b**** about anything.

UNTFlyer got the great new stadium done...they had to keep RV hidden away to make that happen, BTW.

The athletic complex is very nice and I do credit him for getting that done. I think its the biggest achievement of his career here at UNT.

The hire report card is not good. Like it or not, at UNT especially, the hires in revenue sports are all you need to grade.

Football: Grade D

Failed to fire Dickey in 2000, extended him and then fired him with two years left on his contract, hired Todd Dodge and allowed him to bring in HS coaches as assistants, kept Dodge for a 4th year after he had won all of 5 games in the first three years, and then finally hired McCarney and got him an extension after he won the HoD Bowl.

Mens' Hoops: Grade C

Kept Johnny Jones as long as he could until LSU came calling. Hires an assistant coach known for being a great recruiter and had no head coaching experience in Tony Benford. If Benford gets off to a great start at UNT with the best collection of talent we have ever had, he's probably coaching at his alma mater (Texas Tech) right now, meaning we didn't go with a guy who would stay here as a successful coach for any length of time. In the end, it doesn't matter, since he has sucked royally in two years as coach and doesn't look to have a bright future here in his next two years as head coach.

Women's Hoops: Grade F

Shanice Stephens...enough said. I knew when we lost a preseason game to Texas Womans University, that was all I needed to know about her "coaching". An absolute disaster as a head coach. Replaced with Karen Aston, who showed great promise, but got bought by UT after just one year. Petersen hasn't shown much in his years as coach.

The move up to CUSA was solely because SMU left--not because of anyhting we or RV did. We aren't even in CUSA if SMU doesn't leave--which just scares the hell out of me, since we would have been in a WATERED DOWN SBC...that's where you have to ask yourself if FBS is really worht it, if the best you can do is be in a conference with ULM, Texas State, Troy, Georgia State, etc...

The APR is something to be proud of, but the hole we dug out of was also under his watch when Dickey was the coach here.

His second major achievement was to simply allow tailgating before games--that has galvanized the fans who like to enjoy this activity, even if a lot of them don't go into the game.

To me, his grade is a C, at best. He looks much better than any other ADs at UNT, since we simply didn't even try to fund the AD before RV got hired, as well as the fact that the previous ADs didn't allow tailgating (Seriously, who is that stupid?) and scheduled us out in the revenue sports to fund the entire department's budget.

But at UNT a C grade in athletics earns you a great job. From the BOR standpoint, RV's greatest achievement is that he does the job just like they want him to, so he has been rewarded with many extensions. At any other major university of our size, there is now way he'd have survived that many bad hires in those revenue sports. That alone would have gotten him fired many, many years ago.

Edited May 22, 2014 by untjim1995

[flyonthewall]

really? I mean really? Unt flyer helped with a big piece of the stadium. But they kept r.v. hidden away? R.V. was responsible for every 6 and 7 figure donor on the suite level, and there were 16 of those originally. You have and we will never know the dynamics of Harbaugh, dodge and bataille not wanting to pay a coach "more than she makes". Why do you think she is gone? Has anyone ever really found out why?

Mr. UNT jim your post is full of assumptions, many of which just aren't true. I don't know the absolute truth of any of a lot of what you speak of, but I do know this. Apogee stadium is the result of a large group of very motivated people moving together against many odds to get things done, and the figurehead of this movement was Rick Villarreal. In fact, Todd Dodge was very articulate in the very early stadium road show meetings with large donors. I was at every one of them.

Dodge was a failure as coach, but don't discount his ability to speak and explain why the stadium was necessary. You guys are comedians sometimes at best.

[greenit]

If we ever are able to eliminate the bodybag game, I would expect ticket prices to go up, a lot to help cover the shortfall (plus we would have be be consistently at 27k+. I could see ticket prices double, but would also expect to get a more frequent h/h with a lower tier p5/upper tier g5. Hopefully also eliminating the FCS team. If we eliminated the bodybag game and FCS game, but the face value of gameday tickets doubled (and now you have to buy 6 instead of occasionally 5), is everybody still on board?

I don't see getting the perennial top 20/25 program in here, but maybe the next tier of p5/g5. Let's say it was a rotation of 25-65 type p5 team plus a g5 team that we have a h/h with to replace the annual bodybag road game and fcs home game Worth it?

[pastorgrant]

If we ever are able to eliminate the bodybag game, I would expect ticket prices to go up, a lot to help cover the shortfall (plus we would have be be consistently at 27k+. I could see ticket prices double, but would also expect to get a more frequent h/h with a lower tier p5/upper tier g5. Hopefully also eliminating the FCS team. If we eliminated the bodybag game and FCS game, but the face value of gameday tickets doubled (and now you have to buy 6 instead of occasionally 5), is everybody still on board?

I don't see getting the perennial top 20/25 program in here, but maybe the next tier of p5/g5. Let's say it was a rotation of 25-65 type p5 team plus a g5 team that we have a h/h with to replace the annual bodybag road game and fcs home game Worth it?

If we don't have to pay an FCS team, that offsets some of the cost of dropping the bodybag game.

But personally, I don't mind a bodybag game when we have a puncher's chance, so I'm cool with this UT game, the Tennessee game and the Iowa game we have scheduled.

[untjim1995]

really? I mean really? Unt flyer helped with a big piece of the stadium. But they kept r.v. hidden away? R.V. was responsible for every 6 and 7 figure donor on the suite level, and there were 16 of those originally. You have and we will never know the dynamics of Harbaugh, dodge and bataille not wanting to pay a coach "more than she makes". Why do you think she is gone? Has anyone ever really found out why?

Mr. UNT jim your post is full of assumptions, many of which just aren't true. I don't know the absolute truth of any of a lot of what you speak of, but I do know this. Apogee stadium is the result of a large group of very motivated people moving together against many odds to get things done, and the figurehead of this movement was Rick Villarreal. In fact, Todd Dodge was very articulate in the very early stadium road show meetings with large donors. I was at every one of them.

Dodge was a failure as coach, but don't discount his ability to speak and explain why the stadium was necessary. You guys are comedians sometimes at best.

RV wasn't anywhere near that election...he laid low before and during that election. The campaign was labeled "stealth" because so few people really knew about it. Sadly, we all know that if we had really promoted this stadium, it would've failed--again. So I stand by that point. UNTFlyer did the heavy lifting on this. Maybe UNTFlyer can come on here and tell us how much influence RV had with him as he spear-headed this effort, but that has never been made public to my knowledge. And, lastly, I don't discount Todd Dodge at all on this. He was an articulate speaker, he made the UNT family feel like he cared about them, and he made no bones about the fact that he was promised a new stadium when he got hired. And it still took Dodge consistently bringing up in the media and having this "stealth" election to get it done.

As far as the suite level stuff, that is his job, especially to get high donors on board. That is probably what he has done the best of consistently at UNT. He certainly has your support and the other millionaires that support this place substantially.

If Gretchen Bataille said we will never pay more for a head coach than what she makes, RV should have made that clear to everyone that was the payscale and where it came from. He is the perfect AD for this administration and BOR. He does their bidding, he doesn't rock the boat, and he doesn't cost too much. There's a reason he hasn't gone anywhere else. Don't fool yourself into believeing that if the AD at UNT turned everything around here to the degree that you all say he has, that he wouldn't be crawling up the career ladder to go somewhere else. ADs do the same thing that coaches do. Yet, here RV is--as the perpetual AD at this place, with little pressure. To me, that's not comedian material--its pretty damn frustrating.

It is very telling, though, that you didn't mention anything about his hires in your post...I'll just assume we agree on that topic.

[GRN-WHT]

Quite simply, RV is the genius behind everything good that has happened here and takes none of the blame for any of the bad things that have happened here.

[10Eagle10]

untjim1995 speaking some hard truths that the big money eagles don't want to face. this thread should be required reading for any fan who wants to get a little insight on the way things are done here at UNT with regards to both the overall administration and athletic administration. unt90 has produced some quality material herein as well

[UNT90]

RV wasn't anywhere near that election...he laid low before and during that election. The campaign was labeled "stealth" because so few people really knew about it. Sadly, we all know that if we had really promoted this stadium, it would've failed--again. So I stand by that point. UNTFlyer did the heavy lifting on this. Maybe UNTFlyer can come on here and tell us how much influence RV had with him as he spear-headed this effort, but that has never been made public to my knowledge. And, lastly, I don't discount Todd Dodge at all on this. He was an articulate speaker, he made the UNT family feel like he cared about them, and he made no bones about the fact that he was promised a new stadium when he got hired. And it still took Dodge consistently bringing up in the media and having this "stealth" election to get it done.

As far as the suite level stuff, that is his job, especially to get high donors on board. That is probably what he has done the best of consistently at UNT. He certainly has your support and the other millionaires that support this place substantially.

If Gretchen Bataille said we will never pay more for a head coach than what she makes, RV should have made that clear to everyone that was the payscale and where it came from. He is the perfect AD for this administration and BOR. He does their bidding, he doesn't rock the boat, and he doesn't cost too much. There's a reason he hasn't gone anywhere else. Don't fool yourself into believeing that if the AD at UNT turned everything around here to the degree that you all say he has, that he wouldn't be crawling up the career ladder to go somewhere else. ADs do the same thing that coaches do. Yet, here RV is--as the perpetual AD at this place, with little pressure. To me, that's not comedian material--its pretty damn frustrating.

It is very telling, though, that you didn't mention anything about his hires in your post...I'll just assume we agree on that topic.

You bring up a good point, and a point that I think is applicable not only to the UNT AD, but the entire UNT leadership. It seems supporters of UNT are happy when an administrator does the bare minimum. I guess we are so used to our leaders doing less than the minimum that we embrace mediocrity because it is a level we have rarely achieved.

You can look at so many things. The law school debacle comes to mind, as does the failure to protect the athletic fee in Austin and the the refusal to raise the fee, and most recently shady accounting practices that went on for years.

Nothing will change until there is a complete change of leadership and we actually have a chancellor that gives two craps about UNT. Right now we have one that simply collects a paycheck to piece meal UNT out to Dallas County.

It's a system wide problem and a culture that has lingered for years. Mac talks about changing culture. The problem is he can't change THIS culture, and without changing THIS culture, you can't change any of the sub-cultures, including athletics.

Edited May 23, 2014 by UNT90

[UNT90]

really? I mean really? Unt flyer helped with a big piece of the stadium. But they kept r.v. hidden away? R.V. was responsible for every 6 and 7 figure donor on the suite level, and there were 16 of those originally. You have and we will never know the dynamics of Harbaugh, dodge and bataille not wanting to pay a coach "more than she makes". Why do you think she is gone? Has anyone ever really found out why?

Mr. UNT jim your post is full of assumptions, many of which just aren't true. I don't know the absolute truth of any of a lot of what you speak of, but I do know this. Apogee stadium is the result of a large group of very motivated people moving together against many odds to get things done, and the figurehead of this movement was Rick Villarreal. In fact, Todd Dodge was very articulate in the very early stadium road show meetings with large donors. I was at every one of them.

Dodge was a failure as coach, but don't discount his ability to speak and explain why the stadium was necessary. You guys are comedians sometimes at best.

So you honestly believe that RV couldn't explain to GB that college coaches at an FBS school make more than university presidents? Really?

He is that powerless? Or is that the excuse he gives you for his failures? Do you also believe the basketball debacle is the player's fault, as RV insinuated on a podcast?

Good god, how many of his excuses are the big donors willing to accept because he is "such a good guy?"

Do you not think it is HIS RESPONSIBILITY to make his president understand the realities of college athletics? Isn't it HIS FAILURE if he can't accomplish this very very simple goal?

The excuses go on forever. It's great that you can't sit back and chuckle about what we don't know. Just realize that you just may become one of the few members of a very exclusive club of UNT athletic fans.

Edited May 23, 2014 by UNT90

[flyonthewall]

Yes, football really stinks right now. It is going to suck looking down and seeing all of the empty seats for the SMU game. More comedy from the peanut gallery. Why don't we just fire all of the major donors and give them all their money back, or just not take any more, because they are obviously content to just write checks with no expectations of success? HAHAHAHAHA

[UNT90]

Like I said, have a good laugh. You may be having it with a very small group in the future.

[Harry]

At the Cotton Bowl event last night, RV specifically addressed the issue of getting to 6 home games in 2015 and that they were working on this. I am pretty confident that we will have 6 in 2015. When the question was asked I looked around because I expected to see UNT90 in the audience.

[oldguystudent]

College football: what the NFL would look like if the fans owned the teams.

[UNT90]

At the Cotton Bowl event last night, RV specifically addressed the issue of getting to 6 home games in 2015 and that they were working on this. I am pretty confident that we will have 6 in 2015. When the question was asked I looked around because I expected to see UNT90 in the audience.

I won't make one of these until we fix the basketball program. Plain and simple .

I don't share your confidence, Harry, but I really hope you are right.

[the green rokemi]

I won't make one of these until we fix the basketball program. Plain and simple

It's funny but I feel the same way. How can anyone take Benford seriously "the state of the union is....strong". No way could I stand to hear him speak

[Quoner]

So you honestly believe that RV couldn't explain to GB that college coaches at an FBS school make more than university presidents? Really?

Explain? Yes. Make her care? No. Who could have?

[emmitt01]

Yes, football really stinks right now. It is going to suck looking down and seeing all of the empty seats for the SMU game. More comedy from the peanut gallery. Why don't we just fire all of the major donors and give them all their money back, or just not take any more, because they are obviously content to just write checks with no expectations of success? HAHAHAHAHA

So, because a team 32 miles or so away...with an established history of being a draw in Denton BEFORE RV came on board...can bring in fans then RV is a scheduling genius? Wow, am I to believe that Jon Daniels is a world class GM because the ball park is full every time the Yankees come to town?

As to what your "expectations of success" are, I can't speak to that. You accept whatever standard you choose. What I, and the 60 or so people that all of the promotions are geared towards yearly, can speak to is that Apogee and the Super Pit aren't selling out, or coming close. Apogee is obviously improving because of the McCarney hire. It's just a shame that we have to endure the desolate wasteland of the football off-season...better known as basketball season...because RV made another Todd Dodge type hire in Benford. And our women's basketball team has to replace players on a rotating basis because players, who should have been cornerstones of the program and had no worries about playing time, just keep walking out the door under iffy circumstances.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to praying that there is a blizzard this weekend so I can claim that I kept crime down Saturday and Sunday on my watch.

[UNT90]

Explain? Yes. Make her care? No. Who could have?

Don't you think that GB was possibly smart enough to compare other universities football coach vs president salaries and know what was up?

Seriously, which is more plausible, the above or that poor ole RVjust couldn't convince GB that we needed to be like every other FBS participant?

Are you really that gullable?

[UNT90]

I won't make one of these until we fix the basketball program. Plain and simple .

.

Just realized I gave the AD another reason not to fix basketball.

Oh well.

[oldguystudent]

So you honestly believe that RV couldn't explain to GB that college coaches at an FBS school make more than university presidents? Really?

You and Gretchen would ruh-heally not have gotten along. She didn't belong at a public university with a football program. She belongs at something more along the lines of Mills College. Better dead than coed type joint.

[UNT90]

Yet she was hired to be President at UNT? Did no one ask her about her views on athletics in the hiring process? Did the AD not think to make sure certain questions were asked and answered of his new boss through his connections with the BOR? Did our AD really not have that foresight? Or did he just go along to get along in order to not piss off the chancellor and the BOR and then have the excuse later "Hey, not my fault, she should have been at an all womens college because she hates athletics?"

Whose freaking fault is that, really?

It amazes me the excuses we make around here. not just for RV, but for everything from our chancellor on down. And we wonder why we never get anything better.

Edited May 24, 2014 by UNT90

[UNT90]

Missed this. Speaking of basic math, have you looked at our schedule over the next 6 years? We aren't done with 5 game home seasons, my friend. We have no flexibility to schedule any other 1 and 1s, so you can drop that thought.

Instead of researching past ULM schedules, do a little research on the future UNT schedules and you will see that the 5 game home season will roll around at least twice in the next 6 years.

Like you say, basic math.

And I was using Texas as an example. A lot of real Big 10 teams need to recruit the state of Texas. So do a lot of real PAC 10 teams. How about taking a shot at one of them? Oh, wait. We can't. Not for a 1 and 1. BECAUSE WE HAVE NO SCHEDULING FLEXIBILITY. EVEN AFTER BUYING 3 HOME GAMES THE LAST 3 YEARS AND HAVING A 5 GAME HOME SEASON IN 1 OF THOSE YEARS.

Can you get this math?

[GrandGreen]

Missed this. Speaking of basic math, have you looked at our schedule over the next 6 years? We aren't done with 5 game home seasons, my friend. We have no flexibility to schedule any other 1 and 1s, so you can drop that thought.

Instead of researching past ULM schedules, do a little research on the future UNT schedules and you will see that the 5 game home season will roll around at least twice in the next 6 years.

Like you say, basic math.

And I was using Texas as an example. A lot of real Big 10 teams need to recruit the state of Texas. So do a lot of real PAC 10 teams. How about taking a shot at one of them? Oh, wait. We can't. Not for a 1 and 1. BECAUSE WE HAVE NO SCHEDULING FLEXIBILITY. EVEN AFTER BUYING 3 HOME GAMES THE LAST 3 YEARS AND HAVING A 5 GAME HOME SEASON IN 1 OF THOSE YEARS.

Can you get this math?

Scheduled games are cancelled or rescheduled all the time, which I would guess NT is trying to do in the years they have two guaranteed away games.

I also used Texas as example as was stated, it is not financial likely that schools that can make tons of money on buying home games are going to look for one and one series with lower tier schools. Almost ever game NT has managed to schedule with the "bigs" has been a multiple away vs one home game scenario: Baylor, Kansas, TCU etc. This really screws up your ability to schedule more home games. Sometimes one and one series are scheduled when the "bigs" have scheduling problems are just in search of easy away wins NT versus Oregon State comes to mind as well as the Indiana series although OSU at the time was not a big time program and Indiana is not a school that pulls in 80,000 at home.

It is obvious to most that RV and his counterparts at most lower tier schools are searching for those magically home games, which make the few available become even harder to land.

[Ben Gooding]

I will gladly take any P5 in Apogee. It's more and highly regarded publicity. Any P5, bad program or not. It's publicity. I'd preferably rather play the Indiana's and the Colorado's. A win against any P5 does more long term than a loss against a football factory, regardless of score.