Nine teams with only 5 home games in 2014

the green rokemi · May 21, 2014

And I have no reason to believe that we are not actively pursuing home/home series against the teams you are suggesting.
Until the supporters of this program gets to the point that we can eliminate the money game, it will be a recurring issues, just like it is at every other program in our situation.
I am hopeful we can use the new conference, new facilities, and improved results to take the next step up the ladder in terms of support.

Yep, and keep in mind that booking a bigger team for a home and home means availability being possibly 5 years out or more. Meaning that 5 years ago teams had no desire to book us because apogee wasn't built yet, we were in the Sunbelt, etc.

GrandGreen · May 21, 2014

I for one am tire of the complaining about home scheduling. NT plays a money or guarantee away game ever year. They do it because they just about make as much on that game as their entire home schedule. Taking that scenario as a given, NT choices are buying a lower division team to play or having a 5 game home schedule half of the future years. I personally rather have another home and away series with a good opponent and have 5 home game seasons.

Anyone who thinks Apogee makes a significant difference in the ability to schedule better is delusional. It makes no financial sense for a power team to schedule an oc away game when they can make millions more by buying a team like NT to play at their place. Yes, occasionally they play away but it is relatively rare and obviously not done based on the all important economics. They may want an away game for preparation for conference action, play in a particular recruiting or destination area, or just to demonstrate that they don't buy all home oc games.

The things that will help NT schedule better is continue to build a reputation as a good football program. SMU has better oc schedules than NT solely because of their name versus NT. Same area, basically same size stadium, the difference is an home and away series is easier for the visitors to sell to their fans with SMU than NT.

10Eagle10 · May 21, 2014

AD at UNT is easily the best and easiest job in America. No expectations and no results required, from the upper administration or the fan base. RV will put in his 25 and then collect a state pension.

Underrated post. UNT90 gets it.

it's not just RV, though. It's his entire senior administration in the athletic department. We as a collective fan base need to demand more of our athletic department. I applaud RV for assisting in the facility upgrades and navigating us towards CUSA, but if we want to go to the next level then upper administration and the big money donors need to clean house and bring in the next AD who will take us there

Harry · May 21, 2014

I for one am tire of the complaining about home scheduling. NT plays a money or guarantee away game ever year. They do it because they just about make as much on that game as their entire home schedule. Taking that scenario as a given, NT choices are buying a lower division team to play or having a 5 game home schedule half of the future years. I personally rather have another home and away series with a good opponent and have 5 home game seasons.
Anyone who thinks Apogee makes a significant difference in the ability to schedule better is delusional. It makes no financial sense for a power team to schedule an oc away game when they can make millions more by buying a team like NT to play at their place. Yes, occasionally they play away but it is relatively rare and obviously not done based on the all important economics. They may want an away game for preparation for conference action, play in a particular recruiting or destination area, or just to demonstrate that they don't buy all home oc games.
The things that will help NT schedule better is continue to build a reputation as a good football program. SMU has better oc schedules than NT solely because of their name versus NT. Same area, basically same size stadium, the difference is an home and away series is easier for the visitors to sell to their fans with SMU than NT.

Well if we sold more season tickets or Mean Green Club memberships we might not have to play the one body bag game and could afford to bring a bigger name in here.

I also think the better we get - and mark my words we will get better every single year Dan McCarney is at the helm - the harder it will be for us to get games against the UT's of the world who expect guaranteed wins.

In the end we just need to win consistently. That drives everything. You can't expect after one nice season and bowl win to sell tons more season tickets etc...

The next thing we need is a signature win. We haven't had one and we need one desperately. But it can't be a huge upset win followed by a loss to UTEP and 3rd in conference finish.

the green rokemi · May 21, 2014

Well if we sold more season tickets or Mean Green Club memberships we might not have to play the one body bag game and could afford to bring a bigger name in here.

I also think the better we get - and mark my words we will get better every single year Dan McCarney is at the helm - the harder it will be for us to get games against the UT's of the world who expect guaranteed wins.

In the end we just need to win consistently. That drives everything. You can't expect after one nice season and bowl win to sell tons more season tickets etc...

The next thing we need is a signature win. We haven't had one and we need one desperately. But it can't be a huge upset win followed by a loss to UTEP and 3rd in conference finish.

He only speaks the truth

UNT90 · May 21, 2014

I for one am tire of the complaining about home scheduling. NT plays a money or guarantee away game ever year. They do it because they just about make as much on that game as their entire home schedule. Taking that scenario as a given, NT choices are buying a lower division team to play or having a 5 game home schedule half of the future years. I personally rather have another home and away series with a good opponent and have 5 home game seasons.
Anyone who thinks Apogee makes a significant difference in the ability to schedule better is delusional. It makes no financial sense for a power team to schedule an oc away game when they can make millions more by buying a team like NT to play at their place. Yes, occasionally they play away but it is relatively rare and obviously not done based on the all important economics. They may want an away game for preparation for conference action, play in a particular recruiting or destination area, or just to demonstrate that they don't buy all home oc games.
The things that will help NT schedule better is continue to build a reputation as a good football program. SMU has better oc schedules than NT solely because of their name versus NT. Same area, basically same size stadium, the difference is an home and away series is easier for the visitors to sell to their fans with SMU than NT.

Like that recruiting hotbed of Monroe , LA, eh??

Just accept it cause it's always been that way and always will be that way, right? Don't try to change one damn thing!

Just keep on getting your ass pounded by the big boys and don't lift a finger to stop it. Just keep on letting your AD sell a new stadium on how much better your home schedule will be, but then don't hold him accountable for the same crap he threw out there at Fouts plus two 5 home game seasons in Apogee's first 5 years, right?

If you wonder why we continually suck at sports, if you wonder how Benford can get away with what he has for 3 f'n years, if you wonder why every other FBS school looks down their nose at UNT, look no further than this quoted post.

If you don't respect yourself, no one will.

But, hey, we are UNT. How could we dare expect to live up to ULM standards.

Edited May 21, 2014 by UNT90

greenit · May 22, 2014

Well, look who got off work...

Which ULM opponent are you talking about? Baylor? Didn't we just finish a home/home with them not too long ago? Seems like they lost one of those games and their fans went crazy. Doubt they are looking for that again, plus now they have TCU to kick around in the DFW. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice, but again, smu and Army are on the calendar for a while and if we keep the body bag game, then our options are limited.

It will be interesting to see how the 9 game conference schedule impacts the Big12 ooc schedules. I would guess a couple of home/home against other p5 schools plus a bodybag game for most of them. If anything, it may get harder to get the occasional lower tier p5 school to come to Denton, and it ain't like it has been easy in the past.

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

Well, look who got off work...

Which ULM opponent are you talking about? Baylor? Didn't we just finish a home/home with them not too long ago? Seems like they lost one of those games and their fans went crazy. Doubt they are looking for that again, plus now they have TCU to kick around in the DFW. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice, but again, smu and Army are on the calendar for a while and if we keep the body bag game, then our options are limited.

It will be interesting to see how the 9 game conference schedule impacts the Big12 ooc schedules. I would guess a couple of home/home against other p5 schools plus a bodybag game for most of them. If anything, it may get harder to get the occasional lower tier p5 school to come to Denton, and it ain't like it has been easy in the past.

Right.

First the excuse was Fouts. Now it's something else.

But one thing remains constant. It's an excuse. NT03 (I think) posted a great list of non-P5s that have hosted P5s in the last 5 years. It's long.

And we aren't on it (No, I don't count a terrible Indiana team that no one cared about).

Other schools get it done. We don't. Bottom line.

Not only do we not get it done, but put ourselves in a terrible hole in the process. Pretty amazing failure.

Worst thing this AD does.

Oh, and you nailed the work thing ;-)

Edited May 22, 2014 by UNT90

wardly · May 22, 2014

If we had better attendance and more financial contributions from alumni then we wouldn't need to play 7 road games. Since we don't,we do.

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

Two questions. Was the list comprehensive, in the sense that it was 1-1 only? UTSA has huge names in the dome, but I think they are 2-1, which doesn't alleviate the problem you are addressing.

Second, what is wrong with buying a home game against an inferior or FCS opponent to try to guarantee a win in front of your fans? Gets us to 6 home games and makes sure that one is a W.

Please note that I agree that 6 home games should be automatic every year for us. But keep in mind you are saying that being in CUSA is a reason that we should be more big time, yet this list is headed by 3 CUSA teams, including Rice.

I give them props for buying home games the last 3 straight years to avoid even more 5 home game seasons. But just because we did this, it doesn't excuse the TERRIBLE scheduling that put us in a position to buy 3 games in 3 straight years just to barely keep our head slightly underwater in the first place.

I have no problem bringing in an FCS occasionally, as long as you balance it with a marque OOC occasionally. We haven't.

We schedule a horrible 2 for 0 with Iowa just as we would have broken the surface. Brilliant.

Point is, it doesn't matter, because no one is ever held accountable at UNT.

I mean, they are such nice guys...

GrandGreen · May 22, 2014

Like that recruiting hotbed of Monroe , LA, eh??
Just accept it cause it's always been that way and always will be that way, right? Don't try to change one damn thing!
Just keep on getting your ass pounded by the big boys and don't lift a finger to stop it. Just keep on letting your AD sell a new stadium on how much better your home schedule will be, but then don't hold him accountable for the same crap he threw out there at Fouts plus two 5 home game seasons in Apogee's first 5 years, right?
If you wonder why we continually suck at sports, if you wonder how Benford can get away with what he has for 3 f'n years, if you wonder why every other FBS school looks down their nose at UNT, look no further than this quoted post.
If you don't respect yourself, no one will.
But, hey, we are UNT. How could we dare expect to live up to ULM standards.

Don't understand your post at all. I guess everyone should support the team by making demands without any regard to the reality of the situation NT is in. Yes, NT should get rid of the away guarantee game and schedule only big time home games as soon as they find millions of extra dollars.

Have you every really looked at ULM's home schedule. This year they have one home game: Wake Forest Away: LSU, Kentucky, A&M. Last year: Grambling and Tulane at home Away: Oklahoma, Baylor Wake Forest. 2012: Again one home game: Baylor Away: Auburn, Arkansas (so called neutral site game at Little Rock) and Tulane. 2011: One home game against Grambling Away Florida State, TCU and Iowa. 2010: One home game SE Louisiana Away: Arkansas (at LR), Auburn and LSU. They also had only one true home game in 2009 and 2008, Texas Southern and Alabama A&M. Are you sure you want NT to live up to ULM's standards?

Before you post more drivel, you just might want to think first. Not sure how basketball got in your tirade, but than I guess a guy with all the answers without any regard to logic can rant about anything.

greenit · May 22, 2014

I am not saying the scheduling has been stellar. However in terms of occasional marquee h/h series over the last dozen or so years, we have had Indiana, Houston, K-State, Baylor, TCU, and TTech. Since it takes 2 separate years to finish a home and home, we have had roughly one of these series going at any give time.

With the SMU and Army series starting up over the next several years, I doubt we get any P5 home games at least until the Army series ends, which is 2021. I hope I am wrong.

However, if we are able to find a couple of willing teams to schedule h/h AND they are willing to play in Denton 1st AND be willing to wait at least a year for the return game, our schedule start setting up pretty nicely in 2016. For example, Team A agrees to play in Denton in 2016 and return game in 2018, Team B in 2017 in Denton and return game in 2019. Lot's of ANDs, I know. If you have to play the return game the following year, then you may be looking at 2018 to avoid the GMG riot inducing 5 game home schedule. The bodybag game still has a huge influence over how you are able to build your schedule.

I would be very curious to know what the attendance numbers and MGC contributions (ok 90 here is a bone), or increase in student fees would be required in order to be able to eliminate the bodybag game. I am sure someone has probably run the numbers.

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

I have to disagree with a couple of things. SMU and Army are good series for our fans and for DFW sports fans. Are they OkSt or Nebraska? Nope. And that is too bad. But if you look at top 10 attendance home games, SMU and Army are both there. Proven draws. So I would not call them marquee exactly, but I would call them seat fillers. And that is the bottom line isn't it? Also, currently (and normally) both winnable, which is also desirable.

I don't love the scheduling, but buying 3 home games (that are wins) to get to 6 home games isn't a bad thing. Having 5 home games sucks. Having a goal of 6 each year and reaching it is a good thing. Hard to do 3 home-and-home series at a time if you have to pay the bills with the body bag game each year, right? I don't think anyone is arguing that we can afford to get rid of that yet. Correct? (Now 2 body bag games in one year is crap.)

And Iowa is not a 2-0. It is 2 body bag games in separate years. I know that is semantics, but it is the accurate way to look at it. What is the difference between playing Iowa in 2015 and another B10 or SEC team in 2017? It is just two different body bag games in two separate years that happen to be against the same power conference team. Now if we really do get stuck with Tennessee and Iowa in the same year, then that is the problem with it. I know it might be a little naive, but I think RV will either buy out the contract or move one of them to a later year. Both have happened in recent years. I hope I am right.

That is what people thought leading up to 2012, when we had to buy a home game to get to 5. It's a little late in the football scheduling game to be moving around the schdule for 2015. Hope you are right, but I put the chances at about 5%.

I have no problem with the Army series. I think the SMU series is signed for way to many years. Sign a 4 year deal and see where each other are after a couple of years. SMU shouldn't be the be all end all in scheduling

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

Don't understand your post at all. I guess everyone should support the team by making demands without any regard to the reality of the situation NT is in. Yes, NT should get rid of the away guarantee game and schedule only big time home games as soon as they find millions of extra dollars.
Have you every really looked at ULM's home schedule. This year they have one home game: Wake Forest Away: LSU, Kentucky, A&M. Last year: Grambling and Tulane at home Away: Oklahoma, Baylor Wake Forest. 2012: Again one home game: Baylor Away: Auburn, Arkansas (so called neutral site game at Little Rock) and Tulane. 2011: One home game against Grambling Away Florida State, TCU and Iowa. 2010: One home game SE Louisiana Away: Arkansas (at LR), Auburn and LSU. They also had only one true home game in 2009 and 2008, Texas Southern and Alabama A&M. Are you sure you want NT to live up to ULM's standards?
Before you post more drivel, you just might want to think first. Not sure how basketball got in your tirade, but than I guess a guy with all the answers without any regard to logic can rant about anything.

Logic?

You are perfectly ok with having to buy hone games 3 years in a row, meanwhile the year after we stop buying home games, we have our second 5 game home season in 4 years.

So, ya, we are ULM, except we don't get the occasional marque home game. Ever.

We talk about beating a team that matters. You think there is a better chance of that happening in Austin or at Apogee? If you can never play those teams at home, it makes the chances of that win very slim.

As someone posted, UCF got UT for the opening of their stadium. We get Houston.

Houston.

Why do you think UT scheduled that game? Recruiting Florida, right? We have the sane futile recruiting ground to offer, yet never get anything done.

SMU is getting it done, why aren't we?

Your solution is just to accept the way things have always been and ignore everything that has been done to elevate this program the last 10 years. And we wonder why Mean Green Club membership is stagnant. You want the status quo? You got it.

Just never expect anything more, because you won't get it.

As far as what basketball has to do with it, last I looked RV is responsible for both football scheduling and the hiring and retainment of Benford. But, hey, how can we expect poor RV to be able to keep up with all this responsibility, right? I mean, he's a good guy that cries all the time because he CARES so much. Who cares if he is actually effective, right?

Edited May 22, 2014 by UNT90

emmitt01 · May 22, 2014

I am not saying the scheduling has been stellar. However in terms of occasional marquee h/h series over the last dozen or so years, we have had Indiana, Houston, K-State, Baylor, TCU, and TTech. Since it takes 2 separate years to finish a home and home, we have had roughly one of these series going at any give time.

With the SMU and Army series starting up over the next several years, I doubt we get any P5 home games at least until the Army series ends, which is 2021. I hope I am wrong.

However, if we are able to find a couple of willing teams to schedule h/h AND they are willing to play in Denton 1st AND be willing to wait at least a year for the return game, our schedule start setting up pretty nicely in 2016. For example, Team A agrees to play in Denton in 2016 and return game in 2018, Team B in 2017 in Denton and return game in 2019. Lot's of ANDs, I know. If you have to play the return game the following year, then you may be looking at 2018 to avoid the GMG riot inducing 5 game home schedule. The bodybag game still has a huge influence over how you are able to build your schedule.

I would be very curious to know what the attendance numbers and MGC contributions (ok 90 here is a bone), or increase in student fees would be required in order to be able to eliminate the bodybag game. I am sure someone has probably run the numbers.

Not to nitpick but Tech has been nowhere near Denton for a game in the last dozen years. Playing at Texas Stadium does NOT count.

greenit · May 22, 2014

My mistake, I forgot Tech was at Texas Stadium.

I don't disagree with the general sentiment about a bigger time name at home occasionally. Every other year would be nice, minimum every 3rd year. We were somewhat on pace for that, but the schedule for the foreseeable future does not include a P5 at home, but it does include smu and Army, both of which I believe our fans care about and should generate interest. I can't remember 2 simultaneous series that have been as good in my mind.

Add to that, some reasonable interest in conference mates: Rice, LaTech, and UTEP, and there at least half the home games that I am really looking forward to the oppoents. Oh, and don't forget about roadkill down south.

I am not exactly sure how we got into the situation of 2 payday games in 2015, but I imagine Iowa may have said that they will offer 2 games, but you have to take them both, we may have had to take both or get neither, I don't know. The Tennessee game had been on the books for quite some time as I recall and we may have reach a point in the contract where we had to schedule it or face penalties. Heck, maybe 2 payday games just sounded like a good idea to RV.

However, as I have mentioned before, for some reason I don't have a problem with the OOC that year. I actually kind of like it except for the part about asking our guys to have to play 2 P5 teams on the road (plus, I purchased my season tickets with the full knowledge of the schedule, I understand the alternate stance).

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

My mistake, I forgot Tech was at Texas Stadium.

I don't disagree with the general sentiment about a bigger time name at home occasionally. Every other year would be nice, minimum every 3rd year. We were somewhat on pace for that, but the schedule for the foreseeable future does not include a P5 at home, but it does include smu and Army, both of which I believe our fans care about and should generate interest. I can't remember 2 simultaneous series that have been as good in my mind.

Add to that, some reasonable interest in conference mates: Rice, LaTech, and UTEP, and there at least half the home games that I am really looking forward to the oppoents. Oh, and don't forget about roadkill down south.

I am not exactly sure how we got into the situation of 2 payday games in 2015, but I imagine Iowa may have said that they will offer 2 games, but you have to take them both, we may have had to take both or get neither, I don't know. The Tennessee game had been on the books for quite some time as I recall and we may have reach a point in the contract where we had to schedule it or face penalties. Heck, maybe 2 payday games just sounded like a good idea to RV.

However, as I have mentioned before, for some reason I don't have a problem with the OOC that year. I actually kind of like it except for the part about asking our guys to have to play 2 P5 teams on the road (plus, I purchased my season tickets with the full knowledge of the schedule, I understand the alternate stance).

2 payday games, a sell to a fan base that will except anything that the SMU game in 2015 is a quasi-home game, and less work for RV.

As far as Iowa "making" us take 2 games, the answer is easy. You say "no thanks" and walk the F away. If this is what actually happened (doubtful), it should give everyone in this fan base zero confidence in RV's ability to schedule football games. If that is an example of his negotiation skills...

Edited May 22, 2014 by UNT90

MeanGreenTexan · May 22, 2014

2 payday games, a sell to a fan base that will except anything that the SMU game in 2015 is a quasi-home game, and less work for RV.
As far as Iowa "making" us take 2 games, the answer is easy. You say "no thanks" and walk the F away. If this is what actually happened (doubtful), it should give everyone in this fan base zero confidence in RV's ability to schedule football games. If that is an example of his negotiation skills...

Hey, there's still about a year left to get out of either the Iowa game or the Tennessee game. I'll take RV's word that we won't have 5 home games again.

If he cant get out of either of those games, and we DO have only 5 home games next year, then his negative ledger will gain another mark. Make enough mistakes that outweigh the positives, and you lose your job. I think he has so much bank stored up (and if successful in bringing back baseball at a competitive level, will only gain more) that even the horrible Dodge/Stephens/Benford hires, and lackluster scheduling cannot outweigh the good he's done overall.

I'm an RV fan.

GTWT · May 22, 2014

Despite the ravings of '90 & his ilk RV has done more for athletics at UNT than anyone in history. A great new stadium. A great athletics complex. Good hires (for the most part). A move up in conference affiliation. Better academic performance from our athletes.

Some people will b**** about anything.

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

This is the attitude I am talking about and is the reason RV will retire here and has no pressure to perform.

RV told us the same thing before 2012. Remember that 5 game home season, or have you conveniently forgotten it? RV didn't promise that we would have 6 home games in the podcast with Harry where this issue was addressed. He did the usual song and dance of "2015 is a long way away and things can change." It isn't and they won't.

What will it take some people to question the leadership in the AD? A 2 win football season combined with a 8 win basketball season? I guess so.

And that is why so many other fan bases point and laugh at UNT.

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

Despite the ravings of '90 & his ilk RV has done more for athletics at UNT than anyone in history. A great new stadium. A great athletics complex. Good hires (for the most part). A move up in conference affiliation. Better academic performance from our athletes.

Some people will b**** about anything.

Lol.

Great revisionist history.

My favorite part is the "good hires for the most part."

Edited May 22, 2014 by UNT90

GTWT · May 22, 2014

This is the attitude I am talking about and is the reason RV will retire here ...
And that is why so many other fan bases point and laugh at UNT.

I hope you're right.

There are fans on every board that "point and laugh". They show their ignorance. We have a few fans like that on the GMG board.

UNT90 · May 22, 2014

I hope you're right.
.

I guess some people just enjoy losing.

MeanGreenTexan · May 22, 2014

This is the attitude I am talking about and is the reason RV will retire here and has no pressure to perform.
RV told us the same thing before 2012. Remember that 5 game home season, or have you conveniently forgotten it? RV didn't promise that we would have 6 home games in the podcast with Harry where this issue was addressed. He did the usual song and dance of "2015 is a long way away and things can change." It isn't and they won't.
What will it take some people to question the leadership in the AD? A 2 win football season combined with a 8 win basketball season? I guess so.
And that is why so many other fan bases point and laugh at UNT.

Well, I don't recall him promising 6+ home-game seasons prior to the 2012 season. He gave excuses for how that season shook out (K-State and Houston moved around), but then he stated after that season that we wont have to do that again. This is what he needs to be held to.

So, I'll wait and see. Right now, I agree with you, it's not looking good.

greenit · May 22, 2014

2 payday games, a sell to a fan base that will except anything that the SMU game in 2015 is a quasi-home game, and less work for RV.
As far as Iowa "making" us take 2 games, the answer is easy. You say "no thanks" and walk the F away. If this is what actually happened (doubtful), it should give everyone in this fan base zero confidence in RV's ability to schedule football games. If that is an example of his negotiation skills...

Ya, I have no idea about how the 2 Iowa games came about, maybe RV looked at getting 2 games as a good thing and jumped on the chance, but agree that it is doubtful they 'made' us take 2 games. I am not sure if we signed the Iowa game first and then realized we were going to have to play the Tennessee game later or if it was purposefully set up that way. Maybe someone could ask.

This season and next will be interesting to observe from an attendance standpoint. I am really hoping we can push our average attendance over the 25k mark, which will require a roughly 20% increase. Doable, but not a given. It would be awesome to see a sellout/near sellout for the smu game to get things started in the right direction.