SMU suffers because American Athletic Conference

meangreener · March 18, 2014

My point is....UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, and NC State would not all be in the same conference today if they hadn't always been.

Unfortunately, yup.

We won't ever get an invite to the AAC...grind it out in a great regional conference, hope for the MWC or call to the big leagues Big 12.

Edited March 18, 2014 by meangreener

forevereagle · March 18, 2014

I think you make a very valid point about the Big 12. they will add 2 teams. They can't continue to let West Virginia be on an island. The other school could be Houston or possibly even SMU.

If they don't want WV on an island, adding Houston and SMU doesn't solve the problem. I expect that Cincinnati is a likely add for the Big 12 at some point. Puts a team in WV's proximity and adds to basketball. I am not sure who else they will add, but I wouldn't bet on Houston or SMU. They have clearly stated that they want to add outside the current footprint. Best guess is they try to add BYU. If they go to 14, then I would think that Houston has a shot. I still don't know that SMU will be on their radar. I think that there is a possibility that, if they go to 14, there is an outside shot for them to look at USF and UCF to get a foot in the door for recruiting in Florida. That would be if they couldn't add someone from the ACC, which is going to be tough right now with the situation with their media rights. Either way, I doubt that they will be able to hang at 10 for a long time given the revenue forfeited on the championship game.

Edited March 18, 2014 by forevereagle

10Eagle10 · March 18, 2014

it seems like, given the current climate, Cincinnati and BYU are the most likely candidates to join an expanded Big 12. However, Houston is probably in third.

i think forevereagle misunderstood Harry. It seems like Harry was saying the Big 12 will add one team from the east, to remove WV's island status, and they will also add one more school - either Houston, or possibly SMU. forevereagle somehow read that to mean Houston and SMU only?

in terms of the current climate changing: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10620388/anti-trust-claim-filed-jeffrey-kessler-challenges-ncaa-amateur-model ... perhaps it is the beginning of the end. overall, our school's history has indicated that we will not be able to stay with the Big 5 conferences if this comes to pass

UNT90 · March 18, 2014

No not too new here, just have expectations. I think the younger generation will be demand a little more. Expect it, it's a good thing.

Here is how this will go:

2014 - expectations

2017 - frustration that the administration doesn't have the same expectations as you.

2020 - either considered a negative ninny by the 2020 version of the 2014 you or frustrated to the level of complete lack of involvement in UNT athletics.

Check back with me in 2020, if either of us are still around.

Edited March 18, 2014 by UNT90

Ben Gooding · March 18, 2014

Well, I'll be around. I personally think a solid foundation is being laid at North Texas that has never been laid before. Another good year this upcoming year will just solidify that. I think it's a turning point and things are truly looking up for MGN.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Ben Gooding

MeanGreenTexan · March 18, 2014

Well, I'll be around. I personally think a solid foundation is being laid at North Texas that has never been laid before. Another good year this upcoming year will just solidify that. I think it's a turning point and things are truly looking up for MGN.

I think you mean football?

This is the basketball forum though. We had an awful basketball year, the past 2 years.

untjim1995 · March 18, 2014

If they don't want WV on an island, adding Houston and SMU doesn't solve the problem. I expect that Cincinnati is a likely add for the Big 12 at some point. Puts a team in WV's proximity and adds to basketball. I am not sure who else they will add, but I wouldn't bet on Houston or SMU. They have clearly stated that they want to add outside the current footprint. Best guess is they try to add BYU. If they go to 14, then I would think that Houston has a shot. I still don't know that SMU will be on their radar. I think that there is a possibility that, if they go to 14, there is an outside shot for them to look at USF and UCF to get a foot in the door for recruiting in Florida. That would be if they couldn't add someone from the ACC, which is going to be tough right now with the situation with their media rights. Either way, I doubt that they will be able to hang at 10 for a long time given the revenue forfeited on the championship game.

I think the Big XII will eventually die off, but before it does, it will attempt to add TV markets, one of who was already mentioned, in Cincy. Plus, that will help WVU out a ton with just have a traveling companion. My belief is that the 12th team will be South Florida. You get Tampa/St. Pete for a tv market, plus recruiting to Florida ties, as well as a bowl tie-in (the Outback Bowl). If you can go out farther, its to get BYU and another bigger TV market out of the AAC--someone like Memphis, who has a great revenue sport and a bowl tie-in (Liberty Bowl). The Big 12 will eventually lose Texas, OU, OSU, Tech, and KU, which will provide the leftovers a conference that can just get added to by other MWC/AAC schools, even though it will lose the automatic qualifier status like the Big East lost its spot.

As for UNT, our conference affiliation is COMPLETELY dependent on SMU and TCU. As long as those two schools remain in their leagues, then we will have a spot in a different league. Its just how it works in today's world of TV market affiliation. Its also why Rice will never be in a conference with UH ever again. The best case scenario for UNT, to me, is to get a MWC invite with UH, UTEP, and UTSA down the road. We get good Texas schools to be with that should be peer institituitions and we get UNM, CSU, AFA, UNLV, Boise State, and San Diego State, amongst others to play against in football and basketball. That beats the hell out of playing Rice, UTSA, and La Tech every year with the SBCUSA teams. That is about the best bet we could ever ask for, since the AAC will poach other teams from CUSA as soon as they lose other teams along the way, like Cincy, USF, UConn, and Memphis, meaning we lose Rice, MUTS, Marshall, and a F_U twin to them, leaving us even further in the dust--again.

PlummMeanGreen · March 18, 2014

Here is how this will go:
2014 - expectations
2017 - frustration that the administration doesn't have the same expectations as you.
2020 - either considered a negative ninny by the 2020 version of the 2014 you or frustrated to the level of complete lack of involvement in UNT athletics.
Check back with me in 2020, if either of us are still around.

UNT90 knows the UNT athletic terrain about as good as anyone on this message board.

Fact is we are about 25 years behind where we should really be today, but you had to be around here in the 60's or 70's to know that . The 80's and 90's were mostly 2 bad decades for our school's athletic program which in the mid-70's professed to have much higher aspirations as well as to be with much better conference surroundings, too .

Although our school and it's geographical base kept on growing our ticket sales and attendance did not grow with it. For those of us who adhere to the "we are & should be exceptional" mode of thinking it has mostly been a frustrating journey of having to accept dummied down standards coupled with low goal-setting then with some of our elect who were satisfied with that. (Meanwhile, many of us would see way too many schools once at our level go past us).

We have past trends and day to day work operations (or habits) of late to base our present & future. Does that give some of you the warm fuzzies because it shouldn't? Outside what Dan McCarney did this last season, what would we have had to look forward to had his team won less than 5 games this last Fall--so then enter non-revenue producing sports for some to hang their proud Mean Green hats? Do we base everything at North Texas on what happens in one season because Top 50 programs in the NCAA do not. Seems beaurocratic-type operations (as Texas public universities are) just don't know when to hold them or to fold them and our favorite school seems to be the poster child on modus operendi.

Yes, the perfect storm came together for us this last Fall culminating on New Years Day with an event we probably should have had happen much sooner than later in the past, but we've seen other kinds of storms, too, for much of the last 3 to 4 decades and recent trends along with present day to day work operations had much to do with how all those culminated, too. UNT90 has pretty well nailed it and that based on our recent past.

GMG!

.

Edited March 19, 2014 by PlummMeanGreen

Harry · March 18, 2014

I think the Big XII will eventually die off, but before it does, it will attempt to add TV markets, one of who was already mentioned, in Cincy. Plus, that will help WVU out a ton with just have a traveling companion. My belief is that the 12th team will be South Florida. You get Tampa/St. Pete for a tv market, plus recruiting to Florida ties, as well as a bowl tie-in (the Outback Bowl). If you can go out farther, its to get BYU and another bigger TV market out of the AAC--someone like Memphis, who has a great revenue sport and a bowl tie-in (Liberty Bowl). The Big 12 will eventually lose Texas, OU, OSU, Tech, and KU, which will provide the leftovers a conference that can just get added to by other MWC/AAC schools, even though it will lose the automatic qualifier status like the Big East lost its spot.

As for UNT, our conference affiliation is COMPLETELY dependent on SMU and TCU. As long as those two schools remain in their leagues, then we will have a spot in a different league. Its just how it works in today's world of TV market affiliation. Its also why Rice will never be in a conference with UH ever again. The best case scenario for UNT, to me, is to get a MWC invite with UH, UTEP, and UTSA down the road. We get good Texas schools to be with that should be peer institituitions and we get UNM, CSU, AFA, UNLV, Boise State, and San Diego State, amongst others to play against in football and basketball. That beats the hell out of playing Rice, UTSA, and La Tech every year with the SBCUSA teams. That is about the best bet we could ever ask for, since the AAC will poach other teams from CUSA as soon as they lose other teams along the way, like Cincy, USF, UConn, and Memphis, meaning we lose Rice, MUTS, Marshall, and a F_U twin to them, leaving us even further in the dust--again.

Agree that South Florida is a good prospect as well and they seem to move quickly -- no matter what the cost - when a coaching hire goes awry, ie this basketball coach and Skip Holtz before that. They seem to be cognizant of the fact they are under a microscope and the direction of their major revenue sports could be a factor in moving on up.

Ben Gooding · March 18, 2014

I think you mean football?

This is the basketball forum though. We had an awful basketball year, the past 2 years.

yes, I'm speaking of football. Winning in football has a trickle down effect, so this is a warranted topic on the basketball forum as well.

MeanGreenTexan · March 18, 2014

yes, I'm speaking of football. Winning in football has a trickle down effect, so this is a warranted topic on the basketball forum as well.

We'll see.

North Texas went to the dance 2X while mired in football purgatory.

CMJ · March 18, 2014

We'll see.

North Texas went to the dance 2X while mired in football purgatory.

Yeah, if anything success in one usually comes at the detriment of the other. A few schools succeed in both simultaneously (like say the year Florida won both national titles), but it's the exception rather than the rule.

Ben Gooding · March 18, 2014

I'm not referring to national title runs. But asking for better than 16-16 and 6-6 or 5-7. I think maintaining a competitiveness in basketball and football year in and year out is very doable. I'm not asking for dual championships in both sports, I'm just talking about being competitive in both sports. 19-12 and 8-4 annually would hold a lot if weight in the future. It's CUSA for crying out loud, not the SEC or Big12.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · March 18, 2014

I'm not referring to national title runs. But asking for better than 16-16 and 6-6 or 5-7. I think maintaining a competitiveness in basketball and football year in and year out is very doable. I'm not asking for dual championships in both sports, I'm just talking about being competitive in both sports. 19-12 and 8-4 annually would hold a lot if weight in the future. It's CUSA for crying out loud, not the SEC or Big12.

CMJ is correct, it's usually because smaller schools don't have the athletic budget to be competitive in both. Take a look at the CUSA basketball standings this year, basically the football rankings reversed. Schools like Michigan State have the budget to be competitive in both.

GrandGreen · March 18, 2014

Lets see, SMU will be considered to move up but NT will not because; will just because. Nothing makes a lot of sense in realignment but NT has most of the same advantages and disadvantages. They trump NT in money, NT always wins on potential.

A winning solid program cures all ills. If NT really averaged 30k a game, they would be a hot property.

CMJ · March 19, 2014

CMJ is correct, it's usually because smaller schools don't have the athletic budget to be competitive in both. Take a look at the CUSA basketball standings this year, basically the football rankings reversed. Schools like Michigan State have the budget to be competitive in both.

It's not just smaller schools though. Look at Auburn and/or Kentucky in the SEC.

UNT90 · March 19, 2014

I love the title of this thread. SMU loses a first round conference tournament game and still almost gets in, with tge reason they didn't get in being 4 other teams from their conference getting in.

I'd kill to get in a conference like that.

MeanGreenTexan · March 19, 2014

CMJ is correct, it's usually because smaller schools don't have the athletic budget to be competitive in both. Take a look at the CUSA basketball standings this year, basically the football rankings reversed. Schools like Michigan State have the budget to be competitive in both.

You know who bucked that trend? Our old SBC foe, Middle Tennessee.

Went Bowling in football... 4-seed in the conf b-ball tourney losing in semis the to the eventual champs.

untjim1995 · March 19, 2014

Lets see, SMU will be considered to move up but NT will not because; will just because. Nothing makes a lot of sense in realignment but NT has most of the same advantages and disadvantages. They trump NT in money, NT always wins on potential.

A winning solid program cures all ills. If NT really averaged 30k a game, they would be a hot property.

OK--I'll play devil's advocate here.

When we had a great run for our school's basketball program, we drew an average of about 4k in the last season of JJ being here, a year where we didn't go to the postseason yet again. When SMU has their FIRST winning season in years, they start getting sellouts at Moody Coliseum as the season moves forward. Imagine what it will look like for them all season long next year if they are going to be as good as many think they will be? In one freaking year, Moody Coliseum has become "the" place to be for the Dallas locals during that time of the year when the Cowboys are officially out of the playoffs (last weekend of the year) and before the Rangers get up and rolling. Is it something that can continue? Who knows--Larry Brown is a great college coach, even if he is nearing 80, and his top assistant, Tim Jankovich, is a very solid coach. Their future is very bright, at least in my opinion, which absolutely sucks to type out on a post.

If our football program beat them a lot in the upcoming series--and they dont buy it out--and we keep going to bowl games, then we may have the ability to move up ahead of them in the conference affiliation game. But the only conference with out there that has that potential to be better than the AAC year-in and year-out and has a solid media reputation is the MWC. To me, if you can get invited out there, you can work to duplicate TCUs experience from their glory days, as well as improve GREATLY the basketball pedigree for your school to get fans more excited and involved. No matter how good we get, it has been proven over and over that UNT attendance for games against SBCUSA opponents doesn't move the needle enough. I'd take the chance all day long to see how we could do both on the field/court and in attendance if we played the Boise State of today or the Air Force Academy at Fouts or got to host New Mexico, UNLV, or San Diego State at the Pit for a conference game. I can guarantee you that this ain't the Big West Conference redux, with UNT having Craig Helwig as the AD and Al Hurley as President. We would have a chance to do some great things out there--to follow in the footsteps of our Froggy friends to the south in FW. But the MWC is only going to get back into Texas WHEN someone in this state shows them that they are worth going after. Keeping Bumford as the coach again, just as we did with Todd Dodge in football, isn't showing anyone that we are interested in doing anything with a significant revenue sport than just controlling costs as best as possible. Extending McCarney and JJ back in the day were the best things we have done in a looongggg time, leadership wise in the AD, and if Mac can continue to build this thing up, which I believe he will do, then you can really say that this is a different day at UNT--we reward winning, we focus on it, and we won't accept losing. Right now, we have shown that we will reward winning by extending coaches, and we are showing that we are focusing more on keeping the best coaching talent we can by increasing coaching salaries and improving facilites. But to be able to show others that we care so much about winning that we can stand anything less than that, we are going to have to change this acceptability of "well, he still has 2+ years left on the contract and we cannot afford to buy him out, so we gotta just take our chances that he will do a 180 and show some improvement." That costs more in the long run than the buyout does, as evidenced by the Vic Trilli and Todd Doge fiascos. Sadly, we are stuck with the real possibility that Tony Benford will just get added to that list and we will see our basketball program go all the way back to where it was in 2000.

Army of Dad · March 19, 2014

I'd kill to get in a conference like that.

So you lack the dedication to our cause that Craig James has shown?

FirefightnRick · March 21, 2014

CMJ is correct, it's usually because smaller schools don't have the athletic budget to be competitive in both. Take a look at the CUSA basketball standings this year, basically the football rankings reversed. Schools like Michigan State have the budget to be competitive in both.

Unless your schools like Wchita State(Basketball & Baseball) or North Dakota State.

Is the 2013-2014 school year the year of the Bison? As an under-funded, 20 less scholarship FCS program they beat K State in Manhatten and go on to win their 3rd or 4th national FCS football championship in a row and just knocked off zeroU for their first NCAA Basketball tournament win in school history. All while having to, and very successfully I might add, recruit to the frozen tundra of Fargo North Dakota.

Just an unbelievable story going on up at that school right now.

Rick

Edited March 21, 2014 by FirefightnRick

MeanGreenTexan · March 21, 2014

Unless your schools like Wchita State(Basketball & Baseball) or North Dakota State.
Is the 2013-2014 school year the year of the Bison? As an under-funded, 20 less scholarship FCS program they beat K State in Manhatten and go on to win their 3rd or 4th national FCS football championship in a row and just knocked off zeroU for their first NCAA Basketball tournament win in school history. All while having to, and very successfully I might add, recruit to the frozen tundra of Fargo North Dakota.
Just an unbelievable story going on up at that school right now.
Rick

Oil boom in ND right now is flushing all kinds of money into that program.