Does RV need to be fired if Benford is retained and we are this bad ne

untjim1995 · March 19, 2015

RV is a symptom of the illness, not the problem. You cut out RV and you get at best, another BOR lackey. Only way that athletics ever changes here is if the BOR and administration decide to fund it correctly--hiring proven winners or coaches from previous successful staffs of any coach you lose to a bigger job (see JJ to LSU, then not hiring from within but instead hiring an unproven assistant known only as a recruiter), but also firing people for not winning within their first 2-3 years on the job. I have no issue with 5-year contracts--they are an industry standard. But to not fire someone who has been a severe disappointment, to put it mildly, because of the 5-year contract having guaranteed years to have to still payout, then all you are doing is telling everyone that winning doesn't matter here. And it doesn't--at all. Seeing how the university and the city have never taken to UNT athletics ever, you tell me when that changes. Because it hasn't in my 25 years of following the program, nor does it sound like it did in the 25 years before that. Could that change? Sure, but it'll be hard to see that culture change ever occuring anytime soon. So to me, although I think RV is a below average AD at any other FBS university in America, he's just an accepted commodity in Denton, because the BOR has no interest at all in changing this. Maybe that is because they know that their alumni, students, faculty, and local citizenry don't want it, that they just want cheap tuition and a focus on music, fine arts, and education. If that is truly the point, I just wish they would plainly tell us that. Most of us wouldn't even be mad, in fact we would appreciate the candor.

UNT90 · March 19, 2015

For verification on that, ask Ms. "There's already too much literature by dead straight white men" about her opinions on football coaches making more than university presidents.

As to this constant "FIRE RV!" stuff, I recall that by mid-2009, I despised Todd Dodge so much that he could've moved UNT up to the NFL and won the Super Bowl with free BJs in the stands and in-home strippers with happy endings for those watching at home, and I still would've found fault with him. Sometimes we cross that precipice, from which there is no return.

There is no argument to be made. Nothing will please the disgruntled fan base. Nothing. They have made their opinion, and they will stick with it until change someday does come or they keel over in defiance.

Completely untrue. I am extremely results oriented. I may even be able to put up with the AD constantly lying to the fan base if he were winning. He isn't.

Of course if he were winning, he wouldn't have to have told some of the lies that he has to the fan base.

RV is on the way out here. It's just a matter of time. How much time? That depends on just how much people will stomach losing. Will people stomach 3 or maybe 4 wins in football next year followed by the disastrous 4th year of Benford?

I don't think so. If they do, you'll see a lot less of me and about 5-9k other fans around Denton in the fall and the spring.

Results. Tgat is what it SHOULD be about.

UNTLifer · March 19, 2015

Sorry, but writing a dissertation over this topic is something I choose to no longer do due to it being a waste of energy. The results of the Dodge and Benford hirings were/are terrible, and I don't think the hires should just please the media and the fans. What I was trying to state as concisely as possible was that these were not questionable hires at the time. Benford was even touted as a better hire than SMU hiring Larry Brown. The results have obviously not been as envisioned. The problem is the long term contracts that we are saddled with and the inability to get out of them when needed.

Or read untjim 1995's post above.

Edited March 19, 2015 by UNTLifer

UNT90 · March 19, 2015

Sorry, but writing a dissertation over this topic is something I choose to no longer do due to it being a waste of energy. The results of the Dodge and Benford hirings were/are terrible, and I don't think the hires should just please the media and the fans. What I was trying to state as concisely as possible was that these were not questionable hires at the time. Benford was even touted as a better hire than SMU hiring Larry Brown. The results have obviously not been as envisioned. The problem is the long term contracts that we are saddled with and the inability to get out of them when needed.

Or read untjim 1995's post above.

Excuse after excuse.

You say RV is great at raising money, but can't raise the money to buy out his terrible hire?

That is just non-sensical.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · March 19, 2015

At least its baseball season now. ;(

UNTLifer · March 19, 2015

What excuse? I criticized him for the lengthy contracts and his inability to get out of them. Do you even read?

Ben Gooding · March 19, 2015

I am not ready to show RV the door and believe he bought himself extra years with the donations he has secured and the facilities that have been built on his watch. I would bet he is here until baseball is added and then he is done.

His hiring has been problematic, but most people, media included, were on board when Dodge and Benford were hired. I don't like the 5 year deals we hand out, but maybe security makes up for what we can't offer in dollars with these new coaches. Unfortunately, these hires didn't pan out. I think Mac was the right hire and am still on board with him, but it is time for Benford to go.

It doesn't matter what people, media included, though about these hires. Results on the field/court is the only thing that matters in the grand scheme of things. Yes, I like seeing our student-athletes succeed, but give me results on the playing surface and I'll take (earned) 2.0's across the board. These hires have cost the university dollars and that cost should fall on someone's shoulders. There. Is. No. Accountability. And that is where the problem lies, 0 accountability.

UNT90 · March 19, 2015

What excuse? I criticized him for the lengthy contracts and his inability to get out of them. Do you even read?

But in another thread, you praise his fundraising ability.

So which is it? Are we poor or is RV a great fundraiser?

Edited March 19, 2015 by UNT90

GreenMachine · March 20, 2015

I am not ready to show RV the door and believe he bought himself extra years with the donations he has secured and the facilities that have been built on his watch. I would bet he is here until baseball is added and then he is done.

His hiring has been problematic, but most people, media included, were on board when Dodge and Benford were hired. I don't like the 5 year deals we hand out, but maybe security makes up for what we can't offer in dollars with these new coaches. Unfortunately, these hires didn't pan out. I think Mac was the right hire and am still on board with him, but it is time for Benford to go.

So you think his hiring will improve in year 15 or 16? Maybe he is just a slow learner.

ColoradoEagle · March 20, 2015

As long as I've followed the program, the attitude from the majority of the fanbase, and obviously the administration, has been always an excuse of why something hasn't happened or can't happen. At any school that actually cared about athletics, RV would've been fired for:

Hiring Todd Dodge
Inability to fundraise for the new stadium, instead relying on a student-led vote campaign
Hiring Benford
Failing to grow football season ticket numbers
Failing to grow attendance
Possibly for the one two punch of Shanice Stevens and Peterson
Having 4 winning football seasons out of 14 on the job

However, as said before, there's always an excuse at UNT. Either it's that RV couldn't have known on his hires, Denton doesn't support UNT, we can't afford to buy out contracts, etc etc.

Whenever I hear those excuses, it generates questions. Wouldn't a better AD have a more consistent hiring record? Isn't it the AD marketing department's job to generate interest in Denton? Wouldn't an adequate amount of fundraising allow us to pivot and make up for bad hires? Does it really take 10+ years to add baseball?

As a fanbase and administration, we accept the excuses, never stopping to question how we're paying someone $350-450K annually (don't know the exact number) to do the bare minimum. We win a bowl game against a bad UNLV team, and now he's probably good until he chooses to retire.

GrandGreen · March 20, 2015

RV is a symptom of the illness, not the problem. You cut out RV and you get at best, another BOR lackey. Only way that athletics ever changes here is if the BOR and administration decide to fund it correctly--hiring proven winners or coaches from previous successful staffs of any coach you lose to a bigger job (see JJ to LSU, then not hiring from within but instead hiring an unproven assistant known only as a recruiter), but also firing people for not winning within their first 2-3 years on the job. I have no issue with 5-year contracts--they are an industry standard. But to not fire someone who has been a severe disappointment, to put it mildly, because of the 5-year contract having guaranteed years to have to still payout, then all you are doing is telling everyone that winning doesn't matter here. And it doesn't--at all. Seeing how the university and the city have never taken to UNT athletics ever, you tell me when that changes. Because it hasn't in my 25 years of following the program, nor does it sound like it did in the 25 years before that. Could that change? Sure, but it'll be hard to see that culture change ever occuring anytime soon. So to me, although I think RV is a below average AD at any other FBS university in America, he's just an accepted commodity in Denton, because the BOR has no interest at all in changing this. Maybe that is because they know that their alumni, students, faculty, and local citizenry don't want it, that they just want cheap tuition and a focus on music, fine arts, and education. If that is truly the point, I just wish they would plainly tell us that. Most of us wouldn't even be mad, in fact we would appreciate the candor.

I always wonder when someone like in this post, points out the obvious that increased funding is the key; just where do they expect these extra funds to come from. I can already hear the "raise the designated athlete fees" mantra from those that don't seem to realize that in fact, the students are bearing much more of the load than indicated by those funds. Where exactly do many think that those institutional funds that are used every year to balance the athletic budget come from?

Increased funding should come from donations and tickets sales. As fas as I know, those areas are functions of the Athletic Department, so I am not sure how it is directly the function of the BOR anymore than having a bad physics department is.

I am so tired of the continued harangue about NT's cheap tuition and undue focus on fine arts. Neither one is true.

GreenMachine · March 21, 2015

I always wonder when someone like in this post, points out the obvious that increased funding is the key; just where do they expect these extra funds to come from. I can already hear the "raise the designated athlete fees" mantra from those that don't seem to realize that in fact, the students are bearing much more of the load than indicated by those funds. Where exactly do many think that those institutional funds that are used every year to balance the athletic budget come from?
Increased funding should come from donations and tickets sales. As fas as I know, those areas are functions of the Athletic Department, so I am not sure how it is directly the function of the BOR anymore than having a bad physics department is.
I am so tired of the continued harangue about NT's cheap tuition and undue focus on fine arts. Neither one is true.

you increase funding by concentrating on business and engineering then do everything possible to stay connected to those graduates and build up your donations from higher earning alum.