Does RV need to be fired if Benford is retained and we are this bad ne

[the green rokemi]

This is all crazy talk. Seriously, before RV who was the next great NT AD? How many years do you have to go back? my connection to the university began in 1996 and the improvements made under the previous regime to now is night and day! I'm talking athletics across the board, facilities across the board

[UNT90]

This is all crazy talk. Seriously, before RV who was the next great NT AD? How many years do you have to go back? my connection to the university began in 1996 and the improvements made under the previous regime to now is night and day! I'm talking athletics across the board, facilities across the board

Notice you say nothing about winning. Facilities have improved. At what point does it matter if they are empty, or worse, the opponents fans outnumber UNT fans (as was almost the case against UTEP)?

Could it be that our standards are just low?

[untbowler]

there is no doubt that RV is a hug step up from Helwig but that does not say much, as for facility improvements, they had to be done and sorry RV did not get the stadium passed, the SGA and students did it despite the BOR and RV. Then the BOR screws that up by allowing LJ to go down and screw up an easy bill.

So yes everything has improved but where are the wins, where are the 10's of millions of donations that RV promised when hired?

[JesseMartin]

Yeah, nobody's perfect but Rick has done so much more for us than pretty much anybody (everybody?). Some of the old-school guys did a great job back in the day when we were just a little place (Fouts, etc.) but in terms of modern athletics, Rick's only real major issues have been those hires mentioned. I guess his biggest fault is that he's hired better for non-revenue sports than he has for the big three. That's the cause for attendance issues at those, but think about the overall. School spirit actually exists (more than among the few die-hards, I'm not saying we weren't around before but now we have company!), facilities, and most coaches have been great. Who expected that Benford and Patterson would be bad choices? I was iffy on Benny but was like, "Whoa, we stole Wake Forest's coach!". And Dodge was the biggest bust ever but got us so much interest in the Metroplex that brought some of the fans who are now sticking with us into the winning period. From start (1999?) until now, I'd grade him a B.

True, Apogee was done because of UNTFlyer and the students, but you don't think Rick and co. helped out in every phase? And donations are up...I'm sorry, how much was donated for Apogee? As for Jackson...well, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[UNT90]

RV's other issue is football scheduling, specifically 5 home game seasons. Seasons that he said wouldn't happen, only to give us 2 in 4 years (2012 and 2015).

Some people can afford to buy club seats on a whim. For others of us, it's an investment. I don't like getting promises a return on an investment only to have that promise broken twice in the first 5 years.

[the green rokemi]

Ourr football team won a bowl and didn't our golf and track team win titles this last year, not to mention the success of our tennis and soccer teams. Don't sell RV out because of one sport. I can't stand Benford and thought it was a horrible hire when it happened but let's not act like RV has done nothing

quote name="UNT90" post="824813" timestamp="1394678045"]

Notice you say nothing about winning. Facilities have improved. At what point does it matter if they are empty, or worse, the opponents fans outnumber UNT fans (as was almost the case against UTEP)?

Could it be that our standards are just low?

[CMJ]

On the whole, I think RV is in the black. But only slightly. For every positive thing he's done, he has a negative. He hired JJ but then hired Benford. He built lots of facilities, but he hired Dodge. He got Coach Mac, but he hired SS. He signed proven coaches in Lama and Petersen, but only tennis has worked out.

I could go on and on.

[the green rokemi]

there is no doubt that RV is a hug step up from helwig but that does not say much, as for facility improvements, they had to be done and sorry RV did not get the stadium passed, the SGA and students did it despite the BOR and RV. Then the BOR screws that up by allowing LJ to go down and screw up an easy bill.

So yes everything has improved but where are the wins, where are the 10's of millions of donations that RV promised when hired?

You say they had to be done, well the fact is they werent done until RV came. Pretty sure donations are much much higher than they were under helwig.

[BillySee58]

You say they had to be done, well the fact is they werent done until RV came. Pretty sure donations are much much higher than they were under helwig.

Have you read Tasty's posts about the other conference mates who take basketball seriously? These jobs are not always lifetime achievement awards. Is that person the right man for his job right now? Not 5 years ago or when he was hired.

RV has done plenty of good here, and we should be grateful. That is what has had me so torn on this. I want to be grateful for what he has done, but looking at things objectively, he just hasn't been a good AD with the money sports. Outside of helping with the Mac hire, which I don't overlook. I just don't have any faith in him when it comes to hirings.

Retaining Benford for another year and recruiting class will likely set this program back years. If he makes another bad hire after that, we could be looking at another 6 years until we get a competent head coach and likely another 2 years after that until we can get back to where we need to be. Or we could just not care about basketball anymore.

Edited March 13, 2014 by BillySee58

[JesseMartin]

You say they had to be done, well the fact is they werent done until RV came. Pretty sure donations are much much higher than they were under helwig.

Oh yeah. I'd like one of the doubters to file an open records request, because I'm pretty sure that with the Apogee naming rights included, we're in the 8-figure range mentioned earlier.

[CMJ]

It's funny that RV's first hire was Johnny Jones. If he'd have pulled similar hires like that every time, we'd be rolling in a lot of sports right now. Really the only two great hires RV made in the money sports were JJ and Mac. Aston might have been, but wasn't here long enough.

All the others have been underwhelming to bad.

[BillySee58]

I don't know nearly about the workings of the athletic department like many of you do. I have a question.

What are reasons why RV would choose to be cheap for?

We've had a poster on here say that we do have the money to buy him out if we choose. Does RV get to keep any money that we save? Does it just stay in the athletic department? Does he really just have that much confidence in his bad hires? Just trying to figure out why he chooses to retain these mistakes rather than try and atone for them.

[GreenMachine]

I don't know nearly about the workings of the athletic department like many of you do. I have a question.

What are reasons why RV would choose to be cheap for?

We've had a poster on here say that we do have the money to buy him out if we choose. Does RV get to keep any money that we save? Does it just stay in the athletic department? Does he really just have that much confidence in his bad hires? Just trying to figure out why he chooses to retain these mistakes rather than try and atone for them.

Pride

[JesseMartin]

I don't know nearly about the workings of the athletic department like many of you do. I have a question.

What are reasons why RV would choose to be cheap for?

We've had a poster on here say that we do have the money to buy him out if we choose. Does RV get to keep any money that we save? Does it just stay in the athletic department? Does he really just have that much confidence in his bad hires? Just trying to figure out why he chooses to retain these mistakes rather than try and atone for them.

I'll try to keep this short, but in terms of budget and policy I'm nearly as good as you are at in-depth football position analysis. Maybe.

Our revenue from Athletics comes from a few key places: endorsement/conference share revenue (usually able to estimate a pretty good range annually), fees (ditto), and on-site revenue (ticket sales, concessions/money from concessioners, stadium store, etc.). Even with a built-in fee, all segments of the revenue are reviewed in annual budget meetings, and projected expenditures are addressed, as you would expect. This is where it gets a little bit shaky.

I don't have this year's budget info, but I'll outline this part in general terms. Most of the guaranteed revenue is budgeted into expected expenses, everything from facilities upkeep to salaries to team travel and uniforms. Some of it is put aside for marketing, promotions, events (even though some of them have a ticket cost like the HOD festivities, some of them are subsidized via revenue and some are completely subsidized). Then there's always a "to-do" list...will something need to be replaced or renovated in the next couple of years, if so, how is it prioritized? Stuff like that.

Then we come to the issue at hand, buying out contracts. Let's say beyond the automatic expenses, there are 50 items in the "to-do" list and we'd also like to put on a few more events to rally fans. As has been mentioned, we do have a few people who put pretty decent money into the programs, and a bunch who give to the MGC and pay for club seats, season tickets, etc., but that's nowhere near the amount needed to be "comfortable" in a budget sense. To buy out a contract would require moving it up on the priority list, so you'd have to bump out some of the renovated this or new that (multiple unis and helmets would probably be gone quickly), and some of those events might not happen, or might require admission when they otherwise would have been free.

We're in a much better place than we were a few years ago (and FAR better than 15-20 years ago), but any time our revenue exceeds the automatic expenses, there's a whole slew of things they have in line to spend it on. So generally speaking, yes, the money is there to buy out 3 years of his contract (900K, right?), but with so much of what the AD is bringing in going to stuff that should have been done YEARS ago and more of it going to trying to actually forge a relationship with fans (no matter how much it might not seem that way to some...geez, look at how it used to be), a cool million bucks is much more of a setback than it might seem with such a large budget.

Rick's not getting through it by the skin of his teeth or anything, and no, he doesn't get a cut of what's saved by not buying out contracts, but until the recent slew of engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. pony up more donations in larger quantities (unlike those of us who went back to our artsy ways and don't make much dough), the "extra" revenue isn't that large of a margin over the very large sum that comprises the automatic necessities to fund a very expensive athletics program. Like I've said before, it's a chicken-or-egg argument, because you want to sell more tickets and get donations so you can make tough choices about contracts and such, but people want to see a product they want to invest in before getting more involved.

As a side note, I recently learned that about 70% of students who are in Moot Court go to law school and become lawyers/lobbyists/etc. In terms of "growing alumni before graduation"...I wonder how interested Rick might be in working to see when coaches, AD staff, etc. might have an afternoon open for things like MC, debate tournaments, and academic presentations. A little introduction to these students with a "We're very excited about your future and just wanted to come lend our support" could go a very long way, since most of us in those pursuits usually only have our peers and advisors present. If you key into a decent chunk of those who are likely to be a part of the top 10% of post-graduation earners and establish a good rapport while they're still in school...they'll remember it. Some people rarely even have family involved, so to be noticed and approached just as a gesture of goodwill can mean a lot.

[BillySee58]

Thank you very much Jesse. Well put. I've been on the fence as to whether or not RV should be fired. The poster above you (GreenMachine) mentioned pride, and you explained what a financial strain it would be to buyout about $900K. I believe both are factors, but I didn't know if both could be directly attributed to RV.

[Army of Dad]

Its only 900k if Benford pulls a Shanice and doesn't coach anywhere else after getting let go. If he goes back to being an assistant somewhere we pay the difference between what he makes there and what he would have made here. You might have to budget for the whole number, but you would't be paying the whole number.

[the green rokemi]

RV's other issue is football scheduling, specifically 5 home game seasons. Seasons that he said wouldn't happen, only to give us 2 in 4 years (2012 and 2015).

Some people can afford to buy club seats on a whim. For others of us, it's an investment. I don't like getting promises a return on an investment only to have that promise broken twice in the first 5 years.

I agree with this. I also don't like getting home games against 1-aa teams people haven't heard of. Hard to get the casual fan base excited about playing nicholls st.

[wardly]

I found data on average coaches tenure, but nothing on A.D.'s, so original post regarding Rick outliving the norm appears to be just a shot in the dark.I also find this post interesting as a school that only averages 4,000 attendance in the good times and 2,500 in the bad isn't exactly a basketball mecca.We are mistaken if we think experienced coaches were beating down the door for J.J.'s job, and it appears Benford was the pick of the litter. Stephens was the presidents choice, not Ricks,and there was a lot of support when T.D. was hired. Rick tried to make a splash when all we had was Fouts,went all in, and lost. It happens. There has been a world of bricks and sticks added since he came on board, and it's foolish to say that it would have happened anyway. Botton line is that I while think Bendford was a bad hire, he deserves 3 years. Just an old man's opinion.

[UNT90]

I agree with this. I also don't like getting home games against 1-aa teams people haven't heard of. Hard to get the casual fan base excited about playing nicholls st.

Get used to it, because with future money game contracts already signed, we really can't sign another 1 and 1 until 2019, unless a team is willing to play at UNT in 2016 and wait till 2019 for the return game.

The football scheduling issue is another huge failure with this AD. Big 12 schools have played at SMU and at freaking ULM in recent years, yet the best RV can do is freakiing Houston, all the while whoring our program out at the expense of home games (why only 5 home games in 2015? Because we have TWO money games at Iowa and at Tennessee. RV must be channeling Helwig with this schedule).

Look at long term scheduling and you will see why we are buying games with FCS teams. BECAUSE WE HAVE TO in order to have a 6 home game slate. That is how bad of a scheduling situation RV has put us in.

Consequences? None.

I warned people of this, only to be told "there is plenty of time. Don't worry about things so far in the future." Well, we are a year and a half away, and it is absolutely going to happen. Harry actually asked RV about it on a podcast and he completely danced around the issue. Told me right then it was a done deal.

Don't be surprised when at SMU in 2015 is sold to you as an "alternate site home game." That will happen.

Edited March 13, 2014 by UNT90

[BillySee58]

We are mistaken if we think experienced coaches were beating down the door for J.J.'s job.

Are we mistaken? What about Fraschilla, Kaspar, or Scott Cross, who we didn't even contact?

Edited March 13, 2014 by BillySee58

[UNTLifer]

You were saying the same thing about the 2014 home schedule. I will wait to see the final 2015 schedule in writing before bitching about it.

Edited March 13, 2014 by UNTLifer

[UNT90]

You were saying the same thing about the 2014 home schedule. I will wait to see the final 2015 schedule in writing before bitching about it.

No, I said we had to buy a game or else we would have a 5 game home schedule. I said the same thing about 2013, by the way. And we did, spending money we didn't have to spend if proper scheduling had be done.

2015 is completely different than both those years. In 2013 and 2014, we had 2 away games and one home game scheduled OOC. There was an open home spot. The 2015 schedule is set, with away games at SMU, at Iowa, and at Tennessee. We gonna buy out of any if those? Nope.

But you just keep waiting and undoubtedly defending the AD when we have 5 home games in 2015 for the second time in a 4 year period. I'm sure you will be the first to trumpet SMU as an alternate home game.

[wardly]

BillySee58, I don't know who we did or didn't contact, but I do know that there was not much interest in the job.

[UNT90]

BillySee58, I don't know who we did or didn't contact, but I do know that there was not much interest in the job.

I know that Fracshilla interviewed and wanted the job. I know that multiple coaches left messages on behalf of Kaspar, calls that were not returned.

I know that UNT had a future NBA lottery pick (considered so at the time) on their roster. I know that many preseason publications had us as a mid major to watch. I know we were granted a spot in the preseason NIT for the first time in our history because if that potential.

Revise history all you want, but there were plenty if experienced head coaches drooling for this job. UNT just did what they always do and chose the least expensive option.

Edited March 13, 2014 by UNT90

[MeanGreenTexan]

I know that Fracshilla interviewed and wanted the job. I know that multiple coaches left messages on behalf of Kaspar, calls that were not returned.

I know that UNT had a future NBA lottery pick (considered so at the time) on their roster. I know that many preseason publications had us as a mid major to watch. I know we were granted a spot in the preseason NIT for the first time in our history because if that potential.

Revise history all you want, but there were plenty if experienced head coaches drooling for this job. UNT just did what they always do and chose the least expensive option.

I think it was more along the lines of: "...there was not much interest in other candidates." Which could lead some to think that there was little interest in the job itself. I remember reading on here that Benford was in town within a week of JJ's resignation.

If RV isn't returning calls for Kaspar, a proven coach (although one I don't think would have gone over well in the short term), think of others he probably didn't return.