Does RV need to be fired if Benford is retained and we are this bad ne

UNT90 · March 13, 2014

I think it was more along the lines of: "...there was not much interest in other candidates." Which could lead some to think that there was little interest in the job itself. I remember reading on here that Benford was in town within a week of JJ's resignation.
If RV isn't returning calls for Kaspar, a proven coach (although one I don't think would have gone over well in the short term), think of others he probably didn't return.

Fracshilla was interviewed. Fact.

Grant.UNT · March 13, 2014

RV's other issue is football scheduling, specifically 5 home game seasons. Seasons that he said wouldn't happen, only to give us 2 in 4 years (2012 and 2015).
Some people can afford to buy club seats on a whim. For others of us, it's an investment. I don't like getting promises a return on an investment only to have that promise broken twice in the first 5 years.

Just fyi, you aren't paying for 6 games and getting 5. You're paying for 5 and getting 5. I get it. Hell, I'd take 12 home games per season, but I don't think this is the battle to be picking right now.

UNT90 · March 13, 2014

Just fyi, you aren't paying for 6 games and getting 5. You're paying for 5 and getting 5. I get it. Hell, I'd take 12 home games per season, but I don't think this is the battle to be picking right now.

Really? So we can be told something by the AD and then it's "not the battle to pick right now?"

I have club seats, so there is more than just ticket costs that go along with them, as you well know.

MeanGreenTexan · March 13, 2014

Just fyi, you aren't paying for 6 games and getting 5. You're paying for 5 and getting 5. I get it. Hell, I'd take 12 home games per season, but I don't think this is the battle to be picking right now.

The cost of a single game ticket in a season ticket package is really the least of any of our worries (speaking on behalf of UNT90, as well as many others, I'm sure) when complaining about a home schedule that is less than 6 games.

wardly · March 13, 2014

I am not revising history, just stating facts as I know them.I never read that Fraschilla interviewed,and know nothing about Kaspar or Cross, but will take your word for it. I am just repeating what I was told by a friend in the athletic department.On paper Benford looked good, but then again on paper a bumblebee can't fly.Regardless, he is our coach, and will get a 3rd year unless this board is willing to put its money where its mouth is and buy him out.Don't see this happening as our fan base is basically all hat and no cattle, including me.

Green Mean · March 13, 2014

Anything less than 6 games is absolutely unacceptable. Just with that decision alone the AD's job status should be somewhat in question IMO.

CMJ · March 13, 2014

Given the talent we had last year, I'll never believe there was "little interest" in the NT job. Coaches would be banging down the door, because they'd think one (or two) great years and they'd move up to the big time. They might leave NT with nothing, but we'd have gotten an NCAA tourney run out of it (maybe a couple of wins). Look at FGCU!

There'd be little interest NOW though! However, did ASU not hire John Brady a few years ago....who had a Final Four on his resume not long before that?

Edited March 13, 2014 by CMJ

UNT90 · March 13, 2014

I am not revising history, just stating facts as I know them.I never read that Fraschilla interviewed,and know nothing about Kaspar or Cross, but will take your word for it. I am just repeating what I was told by a friend in the athletic department.On paper Benford looked good, but then again on paper a bumblebee can't fly.Regardless, he is our coach, and will get a 3rd year unless this board is willing to put its money where its mouth is and buy him out.Don't see this happening as our fan base is basically all hat and no cattle, including me.

The same AD that blamed the players for last season? Not surprised.

StealthEagle84 · March 13, 2014

As I stated earlier, I think Benford is a bad hire and he needs to go. As for the improvement from last year, as a big picture, we lost an NBA caliber player and moved to a tougher conference and increased wins (albeit with a weak non-conference schedule). I think he did just enough to buy himself one more year. Are we still a bad team? Yes. And I am happy to see that apathy is gone and the expectation of winning is in. I would love to see nothing more than for us to get back to winning 20 games a year and making runs at the conference championship. But you have to admit, we all had this outcome in the back of our minds when JJ left.

Now on to RV. I first got to UNT in 2002. I don't know how you can look around campus, at the students, at the facilities, at what our football team accomplished last season, and not see a vast improvement from that point on. I really only have from 2002 on to put things into perspective. I just remember a friend visiting UNT for the first time in '02 and he came to the football game vs. ULM. His exact words to me were, "This is D1 football?". You take the crowd from that game, maybe 10,000 at best, and look at our homecoming game from this last season vs. UTEP and you tell me the difference.

It is well documented on this board that Todd Dodge was huge failure, which is obvious. We were all fairly excited at first of his hiring, at the thought that he could make inroads to high school coaches and recruit well at the high school level. The recruiting wasn't the problem with Dodge, as evidenced by this last graduating class. But when it came down to X's and O's, he just didn't cut it. But, RV hit a home run with hiring McCarney. I could tell the first year Mac was in town how drastically better coached the football team was. The key now is retaining him and continuing to build on what he has done so far, which I have complete faith will happen.

With all this said, I just don't see where RV's job should be on the line. He has done so much to raise the profile of UNT athletics, getting us out of the $#!* Belt and into a conference where we play teams that people have heard about and have a history of success. In regards to football, he has done a good job of scheduling and get us out of playing two or three body bag games a year. Like I stated, 2002 was my first year at UNT. We played at Texas, Arizona, TCU, and Alabama that year. We now have a home and home with SMU scheduled for years to come and Army right behind that. And then away games against respectable but winnable games at Indiana and Iowa.

UNTFan23 · March 13, 2014

I am not revising history, just stating facts as I know them.I never read that Fraschilla interviewed,and know nothing about Kaspar or Cross, but will take your word for it. I am just repeating what I was told by a friend in the athletic department.On paper Benford looked good, but then again on paper a bumblebee can't fly.Regardless, he is our coach, and will get a 3rd year unless this board is willing to put its money where its mouth is and buy him out. Don't see this happening as our fan base is basically all hat and no cattle, including me.

I think fans are voting with their pocket book. Attendance numbers are down:

2013/2014 - 2,373

2012/2013 - 3,518

2011/2012 - The Athletics site has the 2009/2010 stats listed for the 2011/2012 season. :angry: It should easily be in the 3,500 (or higher!) range though.

2010/2011 - 3,552

We've seen around a 33% drop between this season and last season. We had a couple games this season where we didn't even have 1,000 people at the game. Part of what helps keep the attendance numbers up was a promotion where we must have had the local DISD schools bring in at least 2,500 screaming kids. I think it was East Carolina as the stat sheets says we had 5,000 at the game. I'm not sure whether we even used the UTEP game to help determine this year's attendance average but I know attendance for that game was horrible in part due to the ice storm that blew through town.

I don't think we've seen attendance numbers this bad since the we year made it to the big dance in the 2006/2007 season, which by the way had us with an average yearly attendance of 2,067. By the way, the next year we averaged 3,178. Winning is a big part of getting people to the games along with playing teams people know and care about. We lost some games we shouldn't have, barely beat some teams we should have coasted by, and played a non-conference schedule that was perhaps one of the easiest we've played in quite a while. Unless we get some bigger names in the Super Pit next season and play better against weaker competition we will likely see numbers stay the same or get worse than what they were this year.

Edited March 13, 2014 by UNTFan23

UNT90 · March 13, 2014

As I stated earlier, I think Benford is a bad hire and he needs to go. As for the improvement from last year, as a big picture, we lost an NBA caliber player and moved to a tougher conference and increased wins (albeit with a weak non-conference schedule). I think he did just enough to buy himself one more year. Are we still a bad team? Yes. And I am happy to see that apathy is gone and the expectation of winning is in. I would love to see nothing more than for us to get back to winning 20 games a year and making runs at the conference championship. But you have to admit, we all had this outcome in the back of our minds when JJ left.

Now on to RV. I first got to UNT in 2002. I don't know how you can look around campus, at the students, at the facilities, at what our football team accomplished last season, and not see a vast improvement from that point on. I really only have from 2002 on to put things into perspective. I just remember a friend visiting UNT for the first time in '02 and he came to the football game vs. ULM. His exact words to me were, "This is D1 football?". You take the crowd from that game, maybe 10,000 at best, and look at our homecoming game from this last season vs. UTEP and you tell me the difference.

It is well documented on this board that Todd Dodge was huge failure, which is obvious. We were all fairly excited at first of his hiring, at the thought that he could make inroads to high school coaches and recruit well at the high school level. The recruiting wasn't the problem with Dodge, as evidenced by this last graduating class. But when it came down to X's and O's, he just didn't cut it. But, RV hit a home run with hiring McCarney. I could tell the first year Mac was in town how drastically better coached the football team was. The key now is retaining him and continuing to build on what he has done so far, which I have complete faith will happen.

With all this said, I just don't see where RV's job should be on the line. He has done so much to raise the profile of UNT athletics, getting us out of the $#!* Belt and into a conference where we play teams that people have heard about and have a history of success. In regards to football, he has done a good job of scheduling and get us out of playing two or three body bag games a year. Like I stated, 2002 was my first year at UNT. We played at Texas, Arizona, TCU, and Alabama that year. We now have a home and home with SMU scheduled for years to come and Army right behind that. And then away games against respectable but winnable games at Indiana and Iowa.

He has done a TERRIBLE job at football scheduling. We play 2 body bag games next year, for goodness sakes.

I think some are perfectly ok being the same old UNT, which we will be as long as people are perfectly ok with it.

Have you looked at the schedule long term? Obviously not, or you would realize we are going to have to buy at least 2 more home games to get even. That is why we are playing 2 body bag games next year, to pay for the games we have to buy because of godawful scheduling.

And the thing is, the best thing we got out of that godawful scheduling was a K. St. home game, and that wasn't even in Apogee.

Single worst thing this AD does.

Edited March 13, 2014 by UNT90

10Eagle10 · March 13, 2014

RV's penny pinching to add baseball (specifically building up the dinero for schollies). His man Kuehne is still backing Benford and RV wants some more donations to build a baseball stadium so he's gotta keep him happy.

on a related note, watch for men's track to disappear or become unfunded around that same time.

it's time for RV to go. He's done what he can do here.

We need someone new at North Texas who can take us to the NEXT LEVEL. getting rid of RV also includes getting rid of some of his stale upper level associates

I'm thankful for all that RV has done and accomplished, but I think his work here is finished

UNT90 · March 13, 2014

I think fans are voting with their pocket book. Attendance numbers are down:

2013/2014 - 2,373
2012/2013 - 3,518
2011/2012 - The Athletics site has the 2009/2010 stats listed for the 2011/2012 season. It should easily be in the 3,500 (or higher!) range though.
2010/2011 - 3,552

We've seen around a 33% drop between this season and last season. We had a couple games this season where we didn't even have 1,000 people at the game. Part of what helps keep the attendance numbers up was a promotion where we must have had the local DISD schools bring in at least 2,500 screaming kids. I think it was East Carolina as the stat sheets says we had 5,000 at the game. I'm not sure whether we even used the UTEP game to help determine this year's attendance average but I know attendance for that game was horrible in part due to the ice storm that blew through town.

I don't think we've seen attendance numbers this bad since the we year made it to the big dance in the 2006/2007 season, which by the way had us with an average yearly attendance of 2,067. By the way, the next year we averaged 3,178. Winning is a big part of getting people to the games along with playing teams people know and care about. We lost some games we shouldn't have, barely beat some teams we should have coasted by, and played a non-conference schedule that was perhaps one of the easiest we've played in quite a while. Unless we get some bigger names in the Super Pit next season and play better against weaker competition we will likely see numbers stay the same or get worse than what they were this year.

2011/2012 numbers were posted in another thread as 4004, I believe.

CMJ · March 13, 2014

RV's penny pinching to add baseball (specifically building up the dinero for schollies). His man Kuehne is still backing Benford and RV wants some more donations to build a baseball stadium so he's gotta keep him happy.

on a related note, watch for men's track to disappear or become unfunded around that same time.

it's time for RV to go. He's done what he can do here.

We need someone new at North Texas who can take us to the NEXT LEVEL. getting rid of RV also includes getting rid of some of his stale upper level associates

I'm thankful for all that RV has done and accomplished, but I think his work here is finished

If we actually drop track - then yes it's way past time for him to go.

forevereagle · March 13, 2014

on a related note, watch for men's track to disappear or become unfunded around that same time.

Do you have actual info, or are you just throwing out a wild-ass opinion?

GRN-WHT · March 13, 2014

Once again, I don't see anybody who is defending RV make a good case for the future of the athletic department under his direction.

It sounds like the RV supporters just want him around as a "thank you" for what he's done in the past. Does anybody think we reach the next level with him at the helm. Anybody?

We've been in the gutter for so long that people are blinded to the idea that we can do so much better than what we have on Bonnie Brae right now.

UNT90 · March 13, 2014

Once again, I don't see anybody who is defending RV make a good case for the future of the athletic department under his direction.

It sounds like the RV supporters just want him around as a "thank you" for what he's done in the past. Does anybody think we reach the next level with him at the helm. Anybody?

We've been in the gutter for so long that people are blinded to the idea that we can do so much better than what we have on Bonnie Brae right now.

I tend to agree, but be careful what you ask for. Some said the same thing about JJ, and now they would die to get him back.

It depends on who the hire is after RV. If we want to continue down the same penny pinching, do as much with as little as possible path, there really is no point in replacing RV. The replacement would be the same or worse than RV at many different things.

So, do you trust the people hiring the AD?

That would be the million dollar question.

MeanGreenTexan · March 13, 2014

Once again, I don't see anybody who is defending RV make a good case for the future of the athletic department under his direction.

It sounds like the RV supporters just want him around as a "thank you" for what he's done in the past. Does anybody think we reach the next level with him at the helm. Anybody?

We've been in the gutter for so long that people are blinded to the idea that we can do so much better than what we have on Bonnie Brae right now.

Don't count me in the mob. I'm a fan of RV's. I don't know how you can look into the future with any AD... Although we can say we have baseball to look forward to!

And as much credit as the students & Flyer and other folks should get for Apogee, Rick was the AD when that stadium was built. He should get credit for learning from his past mistakes (when the vote failed in 01/02?) and staying in the shadows to let the students lead the charge.

He was the AD when we moved to C-USA. The past decade + under his leadership has been a rollercoaster, for sure, but it's trending in the right direction.

GRN-WHT · March 13, 2014

I tend to agree, but be careful what you ask for. Some said the same thing about JJ, and now they would die to get him back.
It depends on who the hire is after RV. If we want to continue down the same penny pinching, do as much with as little as possible path, there really is no point in replacing RV. The replacement would be the same or worse than RV at many different things.
So, do you trust the people hiring the AD?
That would be the million dollar question.

I'm willing to take the chance. We know what we've got with RV, sometimes you have to take a risk to try to get to the next level.

MeanGreenTexan · March 13, 2014

I'm willing to take the chance. We know what we've got with RV, sometimes you have to take a risk to try to get to the next level.

This guy agrees!

Sometimes you take a risk on an Athletic Department Plan. Right?

GRN-WHT · March 13, 2014

Don't count me in the mob. I'm a fan of RV's. I don't know how you can look into the future with any AD... Although we can say we have baseball to look forward to!

And as much credit as the students & Flyer and other folks should get for Apogee, Rick was the AD when that stadium was built. He should get credit for learning from his past mistakes (when the vote failed in 01/02?) and staying in the shadows to let the students lead the charge.

He was the AD when we moved to C-USA. The past decade + under his leadership has been a rollercoaster, for sure, but it's trending in the right direction.

RV's past coaching hires are a good predictor of his future coaching hires. It's also easy to say we're heading in the right direction when we've been down for so long.

GRN-WHT · March 13, 2014

This guy agrees!

Sometimes you take a risk on an Athletic Department Plan. Right?

The worst part about the Dodge hire was keeping him for as long as we did.

forevereagle · March 13, 2014

I'm willing to take the chance. We know what we've got with RV, sometimes you have to take a risk to try to get to the next level.

Are you willing to take a chance that we head back down, possibly farther down than we have been in the past 15 years? You say to get to the "next level," care to define what that means? We do know what we have with RV and we know that improvements have been coming steadily over his tenure. Since you seem to know the future, care to clue the rest of us in on how the future looks with a yet to be named next hire? Easy to say that you don't like the job RV is doing, but there is more uncertainty with an unproven commodity than there is with the person we currently employ to do the job and is doing an adequate job.

RV's past coaching hires are a good predictor of his future coaching hires. It's also easy to say we're heading in the right direction when we've been down for so long.

Given RV's past coaching hires, one could predict that it is a 50/50 proposition. That would be true no matter who we have running the AD. If you have a magic formula for making all the right hires you should market that thing right now because you could make millions.

How down do you think we are? I think that we are not in a terrible place at the moment. Could things be better? Sure they could. You act like there is a magic bullet that can be fired that instantly gets us in the SEC and we are one of the best programs in the country. Building a program takes time.

I am not saying that RV is perfect, but I don't think that he should be fired either.

GRN-WHT · March 13, 2014

Are you willing to take a chance that we head back down, possibly farther down than we have been in the past 15 years? You say to get to the "next level," care to define what that means? We do know what we have with RV and we know that improvements have been coming steadily over his tenure. Since you seem to know the future, care to clue the rest of us in on how the future looks with a yet to be named next hire? Easy to say that you don't like the job RV is doing, but there is more uncertainty with an unproven commodity than there is with the person we currently employ to do the job and is doing an adequate job.

Given RV's past coaching hires, one could predict that it is a 50/50 proposition. That would be true no matter who we have running the AD. If you have a magic formula for making all the right hires you should market that thing right now because you could make millions.

How down do you think we are? I think that we are not in a terrible place at the moment. Could things be better? Sure they could. You act like there is a magic bullet that can be fired that instantly gets us in the SEC and we are one of the best programs in the country. Building a program takes time.

I am not saying that RV is perfect, but I don't think that he should be fired either.

Maybe that's the problem, we accept "adequate" as basis to retain employment. By these standards, Benford's 16-16 season is a-ok, so let's print out that extension.

Not saying I have all the answers, but my next level is having teams in 2 of the 3 revenue sports competing for conference championships at any given time. I don't think that's happened yet with RV.

Edited March 13, 2014 by GRN-WHT

NT03 · March 13, 2014

RV's penny pinching to add baseball (specifically building up the dinero for schollies).

We must have more money than most think

Last year we send the nearly 35 member Swim & diving team to Puerto Rico for a practice : http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/w-swim/spec-rel/010813aaa.html

This year we send the women's golf team out to Hawaii - http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/w-golf/recaps/031214aab.html

Nothing against those teams , but is that really money well spent ? Just seems like a lot of dough right there for some non-revenue sports. I'll hang up and listen

Edited March 13, 2014 by NT03