Rick v do the right thing

Stan R · March 7, 2014

Fingers crossed, Stan. I think he may do it.

I'm just hoping you're one of RV's social media internet scanner interns and you really have some pull. You have only been here on this board for the last several years in an Andrew-like fake persona who happens to be somewhat humorous but who's #1 purpose for being on this board is to gather opinions from the unwashed masses and forward them along to RV. Therefore, in my dream world, you actually have some sway in persuading RV, and of course the board of regents.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Stan R

drex · March 7, 2014

It won't happen, but wouldn't it be refreshing if Benford walked in to Villareal's office and said that he appreciated the opportunity, but it is clear to him that he is not a good fit here...and resigns.

untjim1995 · March 7, 2014

Worse.

We were already effed under Dodge, and that year of recruiting and pit digging we gave him just made things worse.

With Benford? Losing 2/3rds of the roster in a year with a doomed coach means that whoever gets hired will lose the talent we do have, and get to rebuild with a team of all new players he either didn't recruit, or brought in with less than a month of lead time, after much of the talent has already signed in November.

Firing Benford now means we can be back on track quickly, and the new coach can assemble his own team next year rather than face a long rebuild with what may be poorly matched parts. Keeping Benford, even for half a season, could mean a 3-4 year crater even after he's gone.

I think keeping Benford another year isn't as bad as it was for keeping Dodge around for a 4th year--and its not because I have any faith Benford will do anything better next year. Like it or not, football pays most of the bills and brings in more interest to the university than basketball does. Dodge won 5 games in his first 3 years, while losing 31, and that was only that good because brand new startup Western Kentucky was on our schedule for 3 wins. So, in theory, Dodge went 2-26 against anyone not named WKU in 3 years as head coach--and only made less than $300k per year, yet we still brought him back because we only had to buy out a minimal amount after the 4th year of the contract.

Benford has killed the momentum for sure. Its been a disaster, but to me, a good coach could come here and turn this thing around again, pretty quickly. Its easier to find quality basketball talent than it is to rebuild a football program, if you have the right coach in place. So, to me, in the hell that is a comparison between Dodge and Benford, Benny wins (or loses less) against Dodge.

TheTastyGreek · March 7, 2014

Its been a disaster, but to me, a good coach could come here and turn this thing around again, pretty quickly. Its easier to find quality basketball talent than it is to rebuild a football program, if you have the right coach in place.

People think that, but it's actually not true. For starters, next season would be the equivalent of a single scholarship class in football where we had to sign 57 new players or be short handed. If that had happened in Dodge's last year, we might never have climbed our way out of the hole. Also, if we fire Benford after the season, most of the top talent will have already signed elsewhere 5 months earlier, or have committed to other programs prior to April signing.

Also, in basketball, nobody really counts it as a success when you win 18% of your games against lower division teams and finish .500. If basketball were football, THIS SEASON would be a bowl caliber year and half of this forum would be making reservations for hotels in Albuquerque or Mobile or some other 3rd tier postseason destination. Building a quality basketball program at a non-power conference school without a legacy of success (like WKU or Gonzaga) is VERY, VERY HARD. We took huge steps in that direction under Johnny, and it's not too late to recover a lot of that ground. But one more year of Benford could be devastating for a half decade to come. Or worse.

UNTGuy5 · March 7, 2014

For those people that argue that Benford's increased win total is reason for optimism, or reason to give him another year, I present this argument...

Last year, we won 12 games, Benford told us that we won only 12 because our roster was so depleted with injuries. This year, outside of Kelvin Gaines missing a few games while recovering from a foot injury, we were completely healthy. And being completely healthy bought us 3 wins. With a joke of a schedule.

Nothing to see here, time to move on.

curtisdaa · March 7, 2014

Rumor from Austin, UNT and UTSA basketball jobs are about to be open. All ways fun to hear expert high school coaches talk at the beer garden.

TheTastyGreek · March 7, 2014

Rumor from Austin, UNT and UTSA basketball jobs are about to be open. All ways fun to hear expert high school coaches talk at the beer garden.

Brighter days could be just around the corner!

cogido · March 7, 2014

Tell me guys, and I am a greenhorn at basketball, but weren't Johnny Jones' first two years here dismal? Didn't he get faced with job loss if he didn't turn it around in his third year? Which he did. I'm just saying...First two years under both coaches were crap. Don't get me wrong, I remember the "greatness days" of the past under Blakeley and our other NCAA trips, it's frustrating to say the least.

Eagle1855 · March 7, 2014

Tell me guys, and I am a greenhorn at basketball, but weren't Johnny Jones' first two years here dismal? Didn't he get faced with job loss if he didn't turn it around in his third year? Which he did. I'm just saying...First two years under both coaches were crap. Don't get me wrong, I remember the "greatness days" of the past under Blakeley and our other NCAA trips, it's frustrating to say the least.

I don't think he had much to work with then he arrived... but I could be mistaken.

Cerebus · March 7, 2014

Tell me guys, and I am a greenhorn at basketball, but weren't Johnny Jones' first two years here dismal?

He went 22-35, 22 wins was more than Trilli had in the previous 4 years.

Benford has gone 27-35, while the team had gone 40-25 the previous two years.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Cerebus

TheTastyGreek · March 7, 2014

Tell me guys, and I am a greenhorn at basketball, but weren't Johnny Jones' first two years here dismal? Didn't he get faced with job loss if he didn't turn it around in his third year? Which he did. I'm just saying...First two years under both coaches were crap. Don't get me wrong, I remember the "greatness days" of the past under Blakeley and our other NCAA trips, it's frustrating to say the least.

Johnny inherited the program at arguably it's lowest point ever, and immediately had a winning season.

Benford took over a team poised for a transcendent, once in a generation or more chance at huge success. And lost 20 games.

We are not screwed yet. The future, both immediate and distant, is still promising. But one more year of Benford could derail us for a long time to come. Our peer institutions fire guys with proven track records and a legacy of success at their school (more on this soon!) when it looks like they aren't the right person to continue leading the program. We waited a year longer than we should, but it's still not too late. Rick V can still save this thing.

GRN-WHT · March 7, 2014

Why isn't anybody suggesting that the BOR or whoever the the powers that be are fire both RV and Benford at the same time?

RV should not have a hand in choosing our next coach, period.

NT03 · March 7, 2014

We might be nearing the end of this nightmare. Why wouldn't I be excited?

Because the man in charge of naming a replacement has had his last 4 BB hires go a combined 85-145 vs DI competition ?

My only real concern with the process

*85 may be 1 or 2 off.. Couldn't find all past results off meangreensports for the women.

CMJ · March 7, 2014

JJ's first year was like a miracle. We were coming off 20-87 and we had a winning record! Admittedly, the second was a huge step back, but then we floated around .500 till the breakout 2007 campaign.

JJ's start was nothing like Benford.

NT03 · March 7, 2014

Rumor from Austin, UNT and UTSA basketball jobs are about to be open. All ways fun to hear expert high school coaches talk at the beer garden.

Men or woman's ? Both should be on the HOT seat IMO

Harry · March 7, 2014

OK - - as of yesterday my sources in Denton indicate that Benford is not going anywhere next year. With the addition of Combs, Wesley, Ward etc they feel pretty good about where things will be next year and are expecting significant improvement.

GRN-WHT · March 7, 2014

OK - - as of yesterday my sources in Denton indicate that Benford is not going anywhere next year. With the addition of Combs, Wesley, Ward etc they feel pretty good about where things will be next year and are expecting significant improvement.

Surprise, surprise...

NT03 · March 7, 2014

I feel bad for Combs & Wesley. I think some may look at them to turn this think around & put up big numbers.Truth is, they are a few years away. Both have a lot of work to do before they are significant players in CUSA

Ben Gooding · March 7, 2014

Oh. My. God. It's not the players that's causing this. If RV is the one behind this then go ahead and light a torch under his seat too.

untjim1995 · March 7, 2014

People think that, but it's actually not true. For starters, next season would be the equivalent of a single scholarship class in football where we had to sign 57 new players or be short handed. If that had happened in Dodge's last year, we might never have climbed our way out of the hole. Also, if we fire Benford after the season, most of the top talent will have already signed elsewhere 5 months earlier, or have committed to other programs prior to April signing.

Also, in basketball, nobody really counts it as a success when you win 18% of your games against lower division teams and finish .500. If basketball were football, THIS SEASON would be a bowl caliber year and half of this forum would be making reservations for hotels in Albuquerque or Mobile or some other 3rd tier postseason destination. Building a quality basketball program at a non-power conference school without a legacy of success (like WKU or Gonzaga) is VERY, VERY HARD. We took huge steps in that direction under Johnny, and it's not too late to recover a lot of that ground. But one more year of Benford could be devastating for a half decade to come. Or worse.

I don't argue your last point is dead-on about the devastation that another year of his could bring, but again, in the bigger realm of athletic department fundraising and PR, since we are in Texas, football drives the bus. And by bringing back a former high school coach from the wealthiest suburb in DFW that won because his kids had better everything than the kids from other high schools in the state, while having sat thru 5 wins and 31 losses in 3 f'ing years, which included our version of having a pseudo-lower division win over WKU built in during those three years, was just pure devastation. But the thing was that the kids Dodge had recruited got better WHEN they got legitimate coaching. It just took 3 years to do it.

Its my belief that at UNT, if we keep Benford again (which I don't want to happen at all--I wanted him fired after last season) and he spares us to death again in his third year, his one saving grace should be that the talent that is here could be coached up and more importantly, added to with some JUCO talent, with a good hire. Now the hard part of this is the great unknown of who would be his replacement. I wouldn't trust RV to hire a dog-catcher again, much less anyone associated with coaching a basketball team. I firmly believe that Rawlins chose McCarney to come here to lead the football program back from the dead. It was alamost other-worldly to believe that UNT actually decided to do something they had done exactly once in 40 years in football or basketball--hire a coach who has actually been a successful head coach at a Division 1 university before. Shockingly, it appears that it has paid the university back immensely, since he has built the thing up into a winner, at least for now. Imagine if we did something even crazier and hired a --gasp!!--an actual experienced head coach from somewhere that people had heard of before?? I mean, if there was just a coach nearby in the area that could be offered something like this to move up in the coaching ranks for more money than anything he could make at his current place...a guy who made the NCAA Tournament while recruiting players to play on a freaking stage for most of his time as coach and would take that team and kick our ass so badly that we ran away from playing them again. But our history would suggest that Scott Cross wouldn't even get a call for soemthing like this, when we can hire a no-name assisitant that is the "recruiter" for a big name program.

Tommy Newman, Jimmy Gales, Tim Jankovich, Vic Trilli, Johnny Jones, and Tony Benford. That is 6 coaches over the last 30 years. The two coaches who came here as big-time assistants that weren't recruiters on their previous staff did the best here (Jank and Johnny). And in each case we followed their "success" by hiring recruiters from Texas and Marquette. If we have to sit through another year of Benford to get a coach that has proven to be able to win at the Division 1 level, I will bite down and accept it. I'll tell you a guy who I would think could do well down here who is not a head coach right now is Doc Sadler. He's from Texas, did a good job at UTEP and got to be the head coach at Nebraska during the BIg 12 years when you played KU and Mizzou twice every year. What I fear more than anything is that we fire Benford and use that as the reason we have to hire a no-name assistant coach from some big name program who has never been a head coach before, which buries us for years--basically following Dickey with Dodge, leading to the worst program in FBS college football.

Cerebus · March 7, 2014

OK - - as of yesterday my sources in Denton indicate that Benford is not going anywhere next year.

eagle2014 · March 7, 2014

Anyone have RV's email so we can all email him and let him know how disgusted we are?

NT03 · March 7, 2014

I'm 99.9% Benny will be back, but I'd expect him to be on a short leash. A win over Rice guarantees us a .500 record ( on paper). I just don't see RV canning anyone over that, he's kept a lot worse around. Now a loss vs Rice and things might get interesting..

I still say we have talent to beat Rice & Tulane in tournament.

eagle2014 · March 7, 2014

I'm 99.9% Benny will be back, but I'd expect him to be on a short leash. A win over Rice guarantees us a .500 record ( on paper). I just don't see RV canning anyone over that, he's kept a lot worse around. Now a loss vs Rice and things might get interesting..
I still say we have talent to beat Rice & Tulane in tournament.

For the betterment of the program I hope we lose.