Kiev Burning

[Cerebus]

Ukraine has about 30 air worthy military jets. Soviet era Mig 29s and SU-27s.... so:

Ukraine pleads for help after Russian 'invasion'

The new Ukrainian government says it has been invaded by Russia and has appealed for the United States and United Kingdom to protect it, as guaranteed under a 1994 agreement.

The parliament also called for guarantees of the memorandum signed by Ukraine, Britain, Russia and the United States in Budapest in 1994. That agreement guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty and current borders in exchange for surrendering the nuclear weapons that were left after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Cerebus]

Joanna Walters, out US correspondent says there are indications that US believes some of these troops on the ground in Crimea are Russian troops. Awaiting the President's speech.

[Cerebus]

Welp, now I think we can officially call this a shit storm.

https://twitter.com/CrimeaEU/status/439513706297176064/photo/1

Edited February 28, 2014 by Cerebus

[Cerebus]

Obama about to make a statement, live feed:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-makes-statement-13

Edited February 28, 2014 by Cerebus

[Cerebus]

Obama says has made clear Russia can be part of international community's effort for a united Ukraine

[MeanGreenTexan]

Obama about to make a statement, live feed:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-makes-statement-13

Not much to it ~2 min. Said about what anyone would expect (let's do this diplomatically). Didn't answer any questions from press afterward.

[Cerebus]

BREAKING #Russian troops are trying to disarm the36th Brigade of #Ukrainian Armed Forces.The military does not give up -censor.net |PR

— Euromaidan PR (@EuromaidanPR)

February 28, 2014

#Russina military convoy is going to capture a military base in #Feodosia - http://t.co/2154i2k28W |PR News #Crimea #Ukraine

— Euromaidan PR (@EuromaidanPR)

February 28, 2014

In #Crimea soldiers turning off lightlamps out on the street. Tanks moving to suburbs. @lindabnorris @CrimeaEU |PR News

— Euromaidan PR (@EuromaidanPR)

February 28, 2014

[Cerebus]

Feodasia is a port city in the Crimea. It just happens to be the HQ of the Ukrainian Морська піхота , the Ukrainian Marine Corp aka the 36th Brigade.

[Cerebus]

Not much to it ~2 min. Said about what anyone would expect (let's do this diplomatically). Didn't answer any questions from press afterward.

He did tell Russia that "There will be costs for any intervention in Ukraine."

You don't have a press conference and say those type of things if you plan to let the Russians roll over the Ukrainians unopposed, like what happened in Georgia.

[Cerebus]

I can't find an English language report covering this, but:

And here we go:

CNN URGENT - Ukraine-Crimea-Telecom

Ukraine's largest telecom company is unable to provide data and voice connectivity between Crimea and the rest of Ukraine because unknown people seized telecommunications nodes and destroyed cables, it said Friday. There is almost no phone connectivity or Internet service across Crimea, said Ukrtelecom, which is the only landline provider in Ukraine.

[Cerebus]

ATR Live from Crimea

[Cerebus]

Another shoddy Google Translate, all I could find though, Ukraine scrambles fighters:

Pilots are ordered to use their weapons against aircraft that cross the border without permission Ukraine.

[Cerebus]

At one point, Ukraine had 5000 nuclear warheads, third only to the US and Russian Federation. Now they are getting pushed around by a guy who wants to restart the CCCP.

Lesson: Don't give up your guns ICBMs.

[Cerebus]

Ukraine's defence ministry said it had information that unknown "radical forces" were planning to try to disarm its military units in Crimea early on Saturday morning and warned against such action.

"In the case of such unknown actions, the Ukrainian armed forces will act in accordance with the laws of Ukraine and the regulations of the Ukrainian armed forces," the ministry said in a statement on its website.

[Cerebus]

22:46: Crimea's Supreme Council (parliament) has set up a "Berkut special-purpose detachment" for guarding public order, which "will be subordinated exclusively to the republican authorities", Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temyrgaliyev is quoted by Unian as saying. Bekrut personnel are blamed for shooting protesters during the dying days of former President Yanukovych's regime.

[Cerebus]

Have to go home now. Reports of APC on the road in the Crimea. There may not be a Ukraine with the current borders come Monday.

Have a good weekend!

[Cerebus]

One last thing. There seems to be a sense of "The Russians need the Crimean ports, let them take the Eastern half of the country for peaces sake." If that happens I have no doubt they will fund paramilitiares who will "fight for a unified Ukraine."

Russia needs the wheat production, most of that is in the west:

[UNT90]

Well boys, it was nice knowing y'all...

UN Security Council to hold emergency meeting on Ukraine crisis

Almost forgot to add: Russian Parliament just passed a new annexation law.

Russia will disregard the UN and troops will be in Keiv by the start of the NCAA tournament.

U.S warns Russia?? Lol. We drew a line in the sand with Syria, Asad crossed it, so we just drew another line. this is the same thing we will do in the Ukraine. We really have no power in this situation due to a lack of leadership and backbone.

And the whole world knows it.

I would expect harsh words, a Russian invasion, harsher words, some weak and uninforcable sanctions, harsher words when the Russians don't give back power to the Ukraine government, harsher more demanding words, Russia sets up a puppet government and places a new leader at the helm (because the deposed president has failed Russia miserably), and the UN and US finally saying that a proper government has been restored and agreeing to allow Russian troops to stay a certain amount of time to "keep the peace."

Of course, Russian troops stay long after the agreement.

Edited March 1, 2014 by UNT90

[Cerebus]

Russian parliament approves troop deployment in Ukraine

Russia's upper house of parliament has approved President Putin's request for Russian forces to be used in Ukraine.

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Moscow says it is potentially significant that the request was for deployment in Ukraine as a whole, and not specifically for flash-points such as Crimea.

I'm going to go outside and enjoy this beautiful weather before the draft starts.

[Army of Dad]

Do we have the will to project force there? The Russians have a history that strong words don't stop them...

Edited March 1, 2014 by Army of Dad

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Not defending Russia ... but this is a problem and the mess is on their border.... and from what I have heard most of the people in the Crimea region were actually born in Russia and not Ukraine.. When the USSR came apart citizenship was a strange thing.... I know of some whose parents are considered Ukrainian and the child is Russian... all came from same town but it was about where they were when the USSR fell apart....

We need to mind our own business.. this is not a typical invasion. We don't need to lose American lives for something that few Americans really understand what is happening.. ... I am sort of surprised that the Crimea isn't Russian territory anyway based on what I have read.. They already have naval bases there.

----------

Rather unrelated... heard a comment dealing with US military budget that claims we spent on military that Russian, Britain, China, France India, Japan and some others combined.... We do not want to be as unprepared as we were in 1940 and any huge war could be over quickly now ... but we may be overdoing it some. It is not our responsibility to "police" the world with our money and lives.

[ hello UNT90 .. is that a conservative or liberal view ? ... apparently you think I have no clue .. seems conservative to me.. spends less money and minding our own business instead of telling them what to do. ]

Edited March 1, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNT90]

Not defending Russia ... but this is a problem and the mess is on their border.... and from what I have heard most of the people in the Crimea region were actually born in Russia and not Ukraine.. When the USSR came apart citizenship was a strange thing.... I know of some whose parents are considered Ukrainian and the child is Russian... all came from same town but it was about where they were when the USSR fell apart....

We need to mind our own business.. this is not a typical invasion. We don't need to lose American lives for something that few Americans really understand what is happening.. ... I am sort of surprised that the Crimea isn't Russian territory anyway based on what I have read.. They already have naval bases there.

----------

Rather unrelated... heard a comment dealing with US military budget that claims we spent on military that Russian, Britain, China, France India, Japan and some others combined.... We do not want to be as unprepared as we were in 1940 and any huge war could be over quickly now ... but we may be overdoing it some. It is not our responsibility to "police" the world with our money and lives.

[ hello UNT90 .. is that a conservative or liberal view ? ... apparently you think I have no clue .. seems conservative to me.. spends less money and minding our own business instead of telling them what to do. ]

Definitely liberal, as you probably would have not wanted to go to war over the Pearl Harbor bombing.

Lord knows you were against it after an attack against American civilians.

There is little we will and can do. The problem is perception. Maybe if the Russians thought we would do something, they would be a little more thoughtful in their own approach to the situation.

Ronald Regean's Star Wars defense ruse scared the holy crap out of the Russians and probably hastened an end to the Cold War.

Problem is, every foreign government knows that Pres. Obama is nothing but hot air. He demonstrated it in Syria. They know he doesn't have the stomach for ANY extended fight (much like you, I'm sure).

In one respect, I guess you could say he is an accurate reflection of the current American culture. You know, we'll do it if its easy, but if it involves any long term commitment or sacrifice, we are out.

One of the greatest weapons in this type of political situation is how others perceive you. Do THEY think you will act. Are THEY concerned with your response. I promise you that Putin not only is completely unconcerned with Pres. Obama's "response", but he doesn't respect him as a leader.

That's why you will see Russia take what it wants in the Ukraine. And you will see the world do nothing.

Kind like the way a power 5 team would treat UNT in negotiating a football series (over and over again).

[FirefightnRick]

Problem is, every foreign government knows that Pres. Obama is nothing but an empty....

.

https://twitter.com/heytammybruce/status/439959274970570752

FIFY

Rick

Edited March 2, 2014 by FirefightnRick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Definitely liberal, as you probably would have not wanted to go to war over the Pearl Harbor bombing.

.

How could you ever dare compare Pearl Harbor in which 100's Americans soldiers died with this situation... no Americans are involved... but if we get involved .. they will ... and you apparently want that... disgusting.

My wife lost her father as as result of WWII and I had a cousin (age 18) in Battle of the Bulge under Patton in a unit that less than 20% survived... You went way too far... War is no game.

My two best HS buddies died as the result of Nam.

Which military branch were you in... and in which war zone???

..

Edited March 2, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNT90]

.

How could you ever dare compare Pearl Harbor in which 100's Americans soldiers died with this situation... no Americans are involved... but if we get involved .. they will ... and you apparently want that... disgusting.

My wife lost her father as as result of WWII and I had a cousin (age 18) in Battle of the Bulge under Patton in a unit that less than 20% survived... You went way too far... War is no game.

My two best HS buddies died as the result of Nam.

Which military branch were you in... and in which war zone???

..

Ah, the "I knew someone who died so how dare you question me" feigned indignant post that answers none of the points I just made.

As far as my service, people who actually know me.know a little of what I've done. I damn sure would never flaunt it on a message board in a stupid Internet argument, but you go right ahead.and throw it out there, my friend.

And actually, I was wrong. I'm sure you would support whatever war we went into as long as a democrat was president, cause that's the way you roll.

I wasn't comparing this situation to Pearl Harbor. I was comparing your reluctance to go to war for anything ever to Pearl Harbor. But you knew that and just chose the typical deflection technique that people like you chose (see: feigned indignancy) and really made a stretch to get there.

Care to bring it back to the issue?

What we should do is start moving military assets to the region while issuing very vague statements along the lines of "Russia has chosen to invade a free, sovereign country, and this will not be tolerated by other sovereign nations in today's world. Russia needs to realize this is not the 1950s and they cannot take what they want indiscriminately without consequences."

This puts pressure on THEM. This makes THEM worry about our reaction. This causes THEM to think about what THEY are doing. This also points to their communist history, which will make the people of Russia extremely uncomfortable.

Sadly, this opportunity was lost long ago when Pres. Obama made a rookie mistake (unbelievably so) by drawing a line in the sand in Syria, then compounded the mistake by doing nothing when the line was crossed.

Unfortunately, we have a President that believes words mean more than action (makes sense, being that he is a lawyer). Sadly, that isn't the way it works in these types of situations.

Edited March 2, 2014 by UNT90