Kiev Burning

[forevereagle]

This is why it is important to make the EU no longer dependent on Russia for Oil and Gas.

So far Putin has threatened to "cease gas deliveries" to:

• Germany
• France
• Turkey
• Poland
• Italy
• Austria
• Czech Republic
• Greece
• Bosnia
• Croatia
• Macedonia
• Bulgaria
• Moldova
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Hungary

Wouldn't that behavior result in trade cutoff the other way as well? Do those nations need Russian oil more than Russia needs what they send back?

[Cerebus]

Wouldn't that behavior result in trade cutoff the other way as well? Do those nations need Russian oil more than Russia needs what they send back?

It's kind of like MAD, except that Russia does money in reserve, while the EU does not have any significant O&G in a ready reserve. So, if Putin really wanted to sow some economic chaos he could just turn down the taps to 50% for a couple of months.

Also, you have to remember that most observers don't think Putin fully understands how integrated Russia is into the world economy. He might see O&G sanctions as a powerful weapon, and under appreciate how much Russia would be hurt.

[adman]

In case you missed this episode of Ukraine's Got Talent.

[UNT Five&Dime]

So...everything is cool now?

[UNT90]

Hardly.

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-russian-jet-passes-near-us-warship-155042130--politics.html

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-gives-rebels-deadline-disarm-face-military-operation-002429861--finance.html

And for those that think "this isn't our problem," have you noticed the increase at the pumps lately?

Edited April 14, 2014 by UNT90

[H-towngreen]

So...everything is cool now?

No. Cerebus has just gotten lazy

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Hardly.

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-russian-jet-passes-near-us-warship-155042130--politics.html

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-gives-rebels-deadline-disarm-face-military-operation-002429861--finance.html

And for those that think "this isn't our problem," have you noticed the increase at the pumps lately?

..

Yep ... and we left wing socialists (your term for me ) that own oil stocks are doing great. Check out CWEI of Midland...

[mattmartin817]

Where are Goose and Maverick?

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russian-fighter-jet-buzzed-u-s-ship-officials-n79971

[Censored by Laurie]

And for those that think "this isn't our problem," have you noticed the increase at the pumps lately?

Ya...oil companies are great at changing cause and effect to perception and effect.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Where are Goose and Maverick?

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russian-fighter-jet-buzzed-u-s-ship-officials-n79971

If I were the Admiral of that ship, I repeatedly tried to radio that plane without response, I'm sitting on a hull full of missiles, and I have no idea what this dude's intentions were... My instinct would have been to shoot it down after a '3-strikes' rule, if that.

Instead, the admiral was probably commanded to leave it alone.

This plane could have blown that ship up getting as close as it did...

Speak loudly, and carry a pool noodle, right?

[UNT90]

Ya...oil companies are great at changing cause and effect to perception and effect.

How do you cover both your eyes and ears with only 2 hands?

[UNT90]

If I were the Admiral of that ship, I repeatedly tried to radio that plane without response, I'm sitting on a hull full of missiles, and I have no idea what this dude's intentions were... My instinct would have been to shoot it down after a '3-strikes' rule, if that.

Instead, the admiral was probably commanded to leave it alone.

This plane could have blown that ship up getting as close as it did...

Speak loudly, and carry a pool noodle, right?

Article said the plane was clearly not armed with missiles. If the plane had opened up with gunnery fire, missiles would have been launched post haste.

You know they were already locked onto the fighter.

Just an attempt to F with the American forces in the area and hopefully get an unprofessional response that they can use to manipulate world opinion. Strike one.

Welcome back to Cold War warfare. Some if you youngsters get to see it for the first time.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Article said the plane was clearly not armed with missiles. If the plane had opened up with gunnery fire, missiles would have been launched post haste.

You know they were already locked onto the fighter.

Just an attempt to F with the American forces in the area and hopefully get an unprofessional response that they can use to manipulate world opinion. Strike one.

Welcome back to Cold War warfare. Some if you youngsters get to see it for the first time.

You know who gets flagged when an O-lineman moves, and a D-lineman pummels him based on reaction? The first guy who moved.

Some rogue pilot could have imbibed in a little too much Vodka and employed a Kamikaze/Al-Qaida technique against that ship. Then what?

No need to risk our sailors' lives to not bow on these games. Homey don't play that!

[UNT90]

You know who gets flagged when an O-lineman moves, and a D-lineman pummels him based on reaction? The first guy who moved.

Some rogue pilot could have imbibed in a little too much Vodka and employed a Kamikaze/Al-Qaida technique against that ship. Then what?

No need to risk our sailors' lives to not bow on these games. Homey don't play that!

Again, these are Cold War rules. That pilot has a boss who has a boss who is telling the exactly what to do and what not to do. Attacking an American warship in international waters ain't gonna happen, and everyone knows it. They tells us that by disarming the fighter of missiles and sending one singular fighter to make the pass.

Just gamesmanship and testing our resolve a bit, not to mention testing our response and whatever they can find out about the weapons systems on that ship.

Edited April 15, 2014 by UNT90

[Rudy]

You know who gets flagged when an O-lineman moves, and a D-lineman pummels him based on reaction? The first guy who moved.

Some rogue pilot could have imbibed in a little too much Vodka and employed a Kamikaze/Al-Qaida technique against that ship. Then what?

No need to risk our sailors' lives to not bow on these games. Homey don't play that!

Maybe we should walk up to Putin and smack him with a stocking filled up with a sock on in the end, then make him rapidly repeat the Star Spangled Banner, periodically stopping to warn him that he ain't singing.

[Rudy]

No. Cerebus has just gotten lazy

The KGB kidnapped him and is re-educating him.

[UNT90]

The KGB kidnapped him and is re-educating him.

In Russia, government educate you.

Uh..

Give up

[H-towngreen]

Putin and Obama chatted yesterday. Russia then promptly had a jet fly by a a US destroyer several times.

[UNT90]

Putin and Obama chatted yesterday. Russia then promptly had a jet fly by a a US destroyer several times.

Shows you how much respect Putin has for Pres. Obama.

That's what happens when you openly abdicate your country's role in the world for the last 60 years and tell leaders of other countries that you can make concessions once an election is over.

People don't respect you.

Putin has his number. And Putin knows it. And that is scary.

It's like we are reliving 1979 all over again.

Edited April 15, 2014 by UNT90

[Quoner]

Shows you how much respect Putin has for Pres. Obama.

That's what happens when you openly abdicate your country's role in the world for the last 60 years and tell leaders of other countries that you can make concessions once an election is over.

People don't respect you.

Putin has his number. And Putin knows it. And that is scary.

It's like we are reliving 1979 all over again.

I have a relative who is a Navy pilot who told me about some of these buzzing incidents in the past. He said this happens more than you think and told me the story of a patrol colleague who went to the edge of enemy airspace just last year and started yelling into the radio for someone to "f***ing fire and get some action going" as he buzzed up and down. He said he'd never been more scared in his life about what was going to happen next.

Before you launch into your planned angry response, I'm not saying that to diminish your point or stick up for Obama - it's just all I could think of when I heard this story.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Putin and Obama chatted yesterday. Russia then promptly had a jet fly by a a US destroyer several times.

..

You misrepresented (or made an error) about the order of events. ... The flyby was on Saturday ... the talk was on Monday...AFTERWARDS.. I hope you made an honest error not some crazy dishonest political comment ...Also remember that our destroyer is near THEIR coast in international waters.... What would we do if a Russian missile launching ship appear near our coast. ??.. [ not making an excuse for them... but that does increase the danger ..so does sending a warship into their area ... doubt the Russians (Putin) were very happy to see an American warship near their coast ] They did not fly OVER or toward the ship in a threatening manner but nearby..

Russia's hold card is that they control much of the oil and natural gas that is used in Western Europe... Western Europe is reluctant to "tick them off". This is a dangerous situation if Russia pushes it any further other than Crimea. The entire situation began in Kiev when people became disgusted with their OWN government.. (100's of miles away.)

----- Back to the 60's ... the Gulf of Tomkin Resolution was passed and the Viet Nam War escalated greatly after a false report of an attack on our ships..... that never happened... reports and comments need to be truthful... ... McNamara and others pushed for LBJ to "up the war" effort on a false and unconfirmed report (which McN. said had been).. which resulted in many men of my generation dying... many I knew.... I have no use for McNamara... and neither did his son who had no contact with him for years....

.

Edited April 15, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNT90]

I hope you made an honest error not some crazy dishonest political comment ...

.

Now that's just funny.

As for the rest, not shocked you are sticking up for an emerging American enemy. At all.

[UNTFan23]

Hardly.

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-russian-jet-passes-near-us-warship-155042130--politics.html

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-gives-rebels-deadline-disarm-face-military-operation-002429861--finance.html

And for those that think "this isn't our problem," have you noticed the increase at the pumps lately?

I thought gas prices go up about this time of year for two reasons -- changing blends and the amount of travel increases in the summer.

Edited April 15, 2014 by UNTFan23

[Cerebus]

No. Cerebus has just gotten lazy

My "I think I have a bad sinus infection" has progressed to "so the doctor tells me he has to take a dremel to the inside of my face and possibly change the number of and type of orifices in my head", so the updates have been a little slow I admit.

As far as the other comments in this thread, well Herp and Derp is gonna herp and derp. I'll try to get some update in now.

[Cerebus]

So you probably are caught up on the following stories:

• "Local ethnic Russian's" have begun to seize government buildings in Eastern Ukraine, the area's that border the Crimea region.
• Pretty much everyone knows these are in fact Russian Spetsnaz. I'll get into what exactly that means in another post.
• Besides the US and Ukraine, several other independent observers have pointed out that these "local ethnic Russians" just happen to have the same gear loadouts, tactics, comm equipment and even hand signals that Russian military special forces have... so either they are in fact Spetsnaz or this is the greatest coincidence in world history.

What might not be apparent is that there is a huge difference between Crimea and the other eastern regions. While there are a lot of ethnic Russians there, they are no where near the huge minority that they are in Crimea. More importantly, neither are the military units.

In Ukraine people tend to serve in units close to tier homes. So the majority of the armed forces in Crimea were ethnic Russian. Most of them just stopped turning up to work, leaving mainly ethnic Ukrainians to get over run by "local ethnic Russians." However, in these new areas, most of the armed forces are ethnic Ukrainians who are going to fight these local takeovers.

For example:

https://twitter.com/_DuncanC/status/456103301395009538/photo/1

UPDATE: Kiev govt claims no military casualties incurred during Kramatorsk 'counter-terror' op http://t.co/YtaPqbJrkM pic.twitter.com/BRzLkvddNg

— RT (@RT_com)

April 15, 2014

UKRAINE: MILITARY RECAPTURES EASTERN AIRPORT

In short, Putin is not going to be able to rely on Russian units masquerading as local rabble rousers. If he wants those territories, the regular army is going to have to come in flying the Russian flag.