Kiev Burning

[Cerebus]

http://imgur.com/a/Uc1gP?gallery

[Harry]

Wow...reminds me of Romania ---

Why Kiev is burning article for those interested.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Thank goodness we live in America.... not in some place like that... It still bothers me that some here are constantly trashing our government ( facebook. here, radio, etc. ) and making claims that are not even true... That is not good for our country .. we were much more civil and unified until those folks showed up and often earning a fortune spewing hatred... ... ... It was elected by popular vote whether you like them or not.

[Cerebus]

Live feed from Ukrainian TV station:

[UNTFan23]

Thank goodness we live in America.... not in some place like that... It still bothers me that some here are constantly trashing our government ( facebook. here, radio, etc. ) and making claims that are not even true... That is not good for our country .. we were much more civil and unified until those folks showed up and often earning a fortune spewing hatred... ... ... It was elected by popular vote whether you like them or not.

Distrust of our government is a long standing tradition. Also, everyone drinks the party kool-aid and so many times you end up with widely varying opinions. That is perhaps the biggest downfall of our two-party political system.

[Cerebus]

It was elected by popular vote whether you like them or not.

The vast majority DO NO WANT to have closer ties with Russia. One of the largest components of the protest group is older people who remember Soviet rule.

The majority want to become part of the EU. Putin is funneling huge amounts of under the table contracts to the Ukrainian leaders to make sure they sign pro Russian trade deals and the people are fed up. The government began the violence when it arrested several protest leaders who were in the hospital, then denied it, then those people were found dead in the woods:

Long story short, Ukraine is a divided country, and it probably won't survive long term.

[Cerebus]

This is really a race against time. Once the Olympics are over and Putin has a better chance to act, they will Tienanmen Square style crush them. The protesters know this, are trying to build critical mass by spreading the word of why they are acting, and trying to spread the protests outside of the capitol. Here is a protest that burned down a militia barracks and armory in Lviv:

Notice the grey heads. I think when Americans think of protesters they think of the young kids who made up the bulk of Occupy or Black Bloc. People who are old enough to remember Soviet rule are the ones in charge of the Ukraine protests.

[Cerebus]

Another good read.

Open Letter from Ukrainian Writer Yuri Andrukhovych

Edited February 19, 2014 by Cerebus

[Cerebus]

More young radicals fighting the interior ministry police:

You'll know the end times are here when these middle aged Ukrainian women PUT DOWN THEIR PURSES before making petrol bombs:

The government is claiming the the rebels are heavily armed. But if you look at the photos you will notice the vast majority of them are pellet guns:

Not that the petrol bombs aren't extremely dangerous:

[UNT90]

Thank goodness we live in America.... not in some place like that... It still bothers me that some here are constantly trashing our government ( facebook. here, radio, etc. ) and making claims that are not even true... That is not good for our country .. we were much more civil and unified until those folks showed up and often earning a fortune spewing hatred... ... ... It was elected by popular vote whether you like them or not.

It was only good for our country when. Bush was president, eh? ;-)

[Andrew Balettie]

This was an incredibly powerful image IMHO:

[Cerebus]

Video of security forces firing into the crowd:

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/media/video/25270710.html

[UNT90]

Shortly after the Olympics are over, Putin wil have Russian troops inside Ukraine. In the name of peacekeeping, of course. They will never leave and you will see the Ukraine become a part of the federation.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

The vast majority DO NO WANT to have closer ties with Russia. One of the largest components of the protest group is older people who remember Soviet rule.

The majority want to become part of the EU. Putin is funneling huge amounts of under the table contracts to the Ukrainian leaders to make sure they sign pro Russian trade deals and the people are fed up. The government began the violence when it arrested several protest leaders who were in the hospital, then denied it, then those people were found dead in the woods:

Long story short, Ukraine is a divided country, and it probably won't survive long term.

.. Our government not theirs .. you misread what I meant. ....

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

It was only good for our country when. Bush was president, eh? ;-)

.

I don't remember radio guys yelling impeach all the time (or any) or a constant barrage of hate spewed on radio/TV then ... Now I do and that is dividing America and most of what is said just isn't true anyway.

People should have pointed out how much the debt was increasing then though.... and that was true.........

I know you will find some obscure guy that no one listens to to quote.... but no one like Rush L. etc. with millions of listeners listing to his arrogant rants... thinking they are hearing the truth.

[UNT90]

.

I don't remember radio guys yelling impeach all the time (or any) or a constant barrage of hate spewed on radio/TV then ... Now I do and that is dividing America and most of what is said just isn't true anyway.

People should have pointed out how much the debt was increasing then though.... and that was true.........

I know you will find some obscure guy that no one listens to to quote.... but no one like Rush L. etc. with millions of listeners listing to his arrogant rants... thinking they are hearing the truth.

Of course you "don't remember" because they were saying things you agreed with.

Ain't memory convenient?

The hate spewed toward Bush was just has bad as some of the hate spewed toward Pres. Obama. There was talk of impeachment constantly by the nutty far left.

And yet another liberal position held by the self-proclaimed conservative 66. Lol.

[UNTFan23]

.

I don't remember radio guys yelling impeach all the time (or any) or a constant barrage of hate spewed on radio/TV then ... Now I do and that is dividing America and most of what is said just isn't true anyway.

People should have pointed out how much the debt was increasing then though.... and that was true.........

I know you will find some obscure guy that no one listens to to quote.... but no one like Rush L. etc. with millions of listeners listing to his arrogant rants... thinking they are hearing the truth.

People were complaining about the debt/deficit spending that was taking place but it was never made into a crisis since we never made it past some amount that made many people think was too much. I guess when we hit the 1 trillion dollar budget deficit mark a lot people really started to care.

Here's a cool video that outlines how debt/deficit spending under the different presidents since the 1980s has gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV-xPS5-GxE

Edited February 21, 2014 by UNTFan23

[Green Mean]

Both Bush and Obama have been spewed on but it seems they've been spewed on in different ways. But make no mistake Bush got constantly grilled during his tenure as well.

Criticism of both Presidents is/was warranted as well. But because one is republican and the other is democrat, the barrage will be from opposite ends so you can never really expect much of a middle ground unfortunately.

[UNT90]

Both Bush and Obama have been spewed on but it seems they've been spewed on in different ways. But make no mistake Bush got constantly grilled during his tenure as well.

Criticism of both Presidents is/was warranted as well. But because one is republican and the other is democrat, the barrage will be from opposite ends so you can never really expect much of a middle ground unfortunately.

Yep

[Coffee and TV]

Anyone who thinks the left was just as bad under Bush need to look no further than the right's hatred of Michelle Obama. That simply didn't exist with Laura Bush.

[Cerebus]

Anyone who thinks the left was just as bad under Bush need to look no further than the right's hatred of Michelle Obama. That simply didn't exist with Laura Bush.

"for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback." --Michelle Obama

You don't think it might because Laura Bush was experienced enough not to fire off HSOs like this?

The vitriol level at Bush and Obama has been pretty consistently high, just from different sources...

AND NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE UKRAINE.

There is a political cage fighting thread, go circle jerk in that one.

[DeepGreen]

All I'm going to say is, like him or not, Barrack Obama has turned this country inside out according to his and others' political agenda. If you criticize him, you're racist. People are criticizing him for what he is doing to our country and our constitution. And his two partners, Harry Reid and Eric Holder, are helping him accomplish his leftist agenda by cramming this shit in our faces, day after day.

[Censored by Laurie]

All I'm going to say is, like him or not,

you know, most of the time when people start a statement with lead-ins like this, they tend to be measured and well-thought out responses.

[Coffee and TV]

"for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback." --Michelle Obama

You don't think it might because Laura Bush was experienced enough not to fire off HSOs like this?

The vitriol level at Bush and Obama has been pretty consistently high, just from different sources...

AND NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE UKRAINE.

There is a political cage fighting thread, go circle jerk in that one.

Yeah a statement like that totally opens her up to monkey comparisons. Totally.

[Army of Dad]

Yeah a statement like that totally opens her up to monkey comparisons. Totally.

I did a quick Google image search for caricatures of Bush and then both Obamas.

There was a monkey one that can only be described as hateful on the third result for Bush.

There was one that vaguely resemebeled Michelle had been crossed with a plaenof the apes character on the third row.

No monkeyish caricature of Barack on the fist page.