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Kiev Burning

Cerebus
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UNT90 Newbie

UNT90

Posted
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You people are being so petulant that UNT90 is correcting you. UNT90... think about that.

I'm not mad, just really dissapointed.

Watch it, sir, or I'll start a budget conversation up in here.

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SCREAMING EAGLE-66
SCREAMING EAGLE-66

Thank goodness we live in America.... not in some place like that... It still bothers me that some here are constantly trashing our government ( facebook. here, radio, etc. ) and making claims that a

UNT90
UNT90

It was only good for our country when. Bush was president, eh? ;-)

SCREAMING EAGLE-66
SCREAMING EAGLE-66

. I don't remember radio guys yelling impeach all the time (or any) or a constant barrage of hate spewed on radio/TV then ... Now I do and that is dividing America and most of what is said just isn'

All About UNT Veteran

All About UNT

Posted
Posted

I seriously thought about starting an Iraq/ISIS/etc thread, and having a huge initial post that presents a lot of background. But after just a little but of though it was clear to me it would be WAY to much work.

I agree that there should be a thread on Iraq and the situation in it...... but that would be a TON of work. Obviously the situation isn't as black and white and some present it to be but posting political pundit's estimations for what is the cause of the rise of ISIS and blaming it on a lack of continual American presence within the country is simply not accurate.

The larger picture is that lines have literally been drawn in the sand with each group having their own support system:

Iraq (Shiite run and operated): Iran, Russia, Syria, US

Kurdistan: US and some consideration of Turkey if they opt to continue buying oil directly from the Kurds

ISIS: Syrian Rebels, Turkey (to a degree) and some would even say Saudi Wahhabists

This problem cannot be permanently resolved by the presence of US troops in Iraq for the next 10 years... sorry. The cynic in me thinks that either you break up the country into 3 different partitions or these guys will continue to slit each other's throats until the bloodletting becomes too much (as you saw in later stages of the Bosnian wars).

George Bush Sr. made a well educated military decision when he stopped our tanks at the gates of Baghdad. Too bad his son couldn't take a page out of this book but I attribute George's decision to having worked at the CIA and fully understanding the ramifications that would exist if Saddam was overthrown. The same ramifications that we see existing today.

Can one blame the Shiite majority for acting the way they are in Iraq? They were a sub-servant majority in the nation for YEARS.... brutally suppressed when they rose up after the Gulf War by Saddam..... and now are in power over their former masters. Combine that with the obvious affection they carry towards Iran and it sets a bad tone for any and all relations with Sunni officials within Iraq.

Picking sides in this battle is very dangerous (even with the Kurds) and I hope that after years of failed foreign policy (from both parties) that we can make more calculated decisions about who we decide to support and who we decide to bomb.

SCREAMING EAGLE-66 Rookie

SCREAMING EAGLE-66

Posted
Posted (edited)

---Agree with above post..... I am not sure how pointing out us trying to "fix" Iraq and also Nam didn't work out well for us.... is considered political.... One party can be blamed for one and the other for the other... The whole point was ... let them solve their own problems (includes Ukraine) ..... humanitarian help or stopping slaughter is entirely different... but don't try to tell them who to put in charge of their country.. Bush Sr. (GOP) did the right thing when he freed Kuwait but left Saddam alone... Bush Jr. (GOP) should have done the same.. left him alone..... How is that political, both GOP even same family?? We should keep our nose out of Ukraine as much as possible at least militarily.. .... besides there are as lot of other bad situations in the world as well and we are leaving them alone. Iran and Hugo Chavez constantly insulted us and we did nothing ... why Saddam ..??. no other country at the time believed the WMD "tale" and no terrorist acts to us came from there.

Perhaps a little interference in Central America would have helped and not led to the immigration problems of all these kids... but we didn't. We went to the other side of the world instead .. and into a large country ... not some small one nearby where we might have changed things some and that really affected us here. .

Edited by SCREAMING EAGLE-66
VideoEagle Mentor

VideoEagle

Posted
Posted

For former GRU officer who had be the "rebels" defense minister in Donetsk has quit. He's the third Russian citizen "volunteer" who had been running the pro-Russian revolution to leave this week. The rebel's website says he's resigned in connection with "his transfer to another job." I wonder what that job is, especially the Russians ready to invade under the cover of supporting their "aid column."

Here's the story from DW.

The BBC has a live feed going here that's interesting but some of it from tweets from unconfirmed sources.

All About UNT Veteran

All About UNT

Posted
Posted

For former GRU officer who had be the "rebels" defense minister in Donetsk has quit. He's the third Russian citizen "volunteer" who had been running the pro-Russian revolution to leave this week. The rebel's website says he's resigned in connection with "his transfer to another job." I wonder what that job is, especially the Russians ready to invade under the cover of supporting their "aid column."

Here's the story from DW.

The BBC has a live feed going here that's interesting but some of it from tweets from unconfirmed sources.

He will try to flee the country before the Ukrainians inevitably capture him and try him for shooting down the airliner and insurgency. Hope they catch him since if he gets to the border he is a goner

Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

Posted
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Posted (edited)

In today edition of "Strange things going on with the Russian Convoy"

Things seemed to be going well when Putin agreed to allow Ukraine border guards to inspect Russian aid convoy (BBC).

However things get weird when reports show the trucks to be mostly empty:

https://twitter.com/JuMistress/status/500205528313004033/photo/1

https://twitter.com/RoslyakovAP/status/500190707165192192/photo/1

https://twitter.com/TomBartonJourno/status/500206510551871488/photo/1

Why would Russia send empty trucks? Was their cargo removed before the inspection to hide it? Has the cargo already been smuggled in? What was it?

ETA:

Edited by Cerebus
Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

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Posted

He will try to flee the country before the Ukrainians inevitably capture him and try him for shooting down the airliner and insurgency. Hope they catch him since if he gets to the border he is a goner

The border is pretty porous, no reason to doubt the Russians can get him out.

Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

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The big question right now is have Russian troops crossed into Eastern Ukraine?

Reuters: NATO accuses Moscow of escalating Ukraine conflict

NATO accused the Kremlin on Friday of escalating the conflict in Ukraine, following reports that a small column of Russian armored vehicles had crossed overnight into an area of Ukraine where pro-Moscow rebels are battling government forces.

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"If there are any Russian military personnel or vehicles in eastern Ukraine, they need to be withdrawn immediately or the consequences could be very serious," he told reporters. Lithuania's foreign minister also voiced concern.

Britain's Guardian newspaper said on Friday that its reporter had seen several armored personnel carriers (APCs) crossing the border with Ukraine. (bit.ly/1pbRpYg)

Ukrainian officials said that some armored vehicles did cross from Russian into Ukraine overnight, and that they were investigating.

"These movements into Ukrainian territory take place practically every day with the aim of provoking (the Ukrainian side)," said Oleksiy Dmytrashkivsky, a Ukrainian military spokesman.

---

Apart from the trucks, a Reuters reporter with the convoy saw a dozen APCs on the move not far from the convoy. Another Reuters reporter saw two dozen APCs moving near the border with Ukraine on Thursday night.

ETA: More photo evidence that the Russians crossed at least momentarily.

Edited by Cerebus
Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

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Posted (edited)

This seems almost unbelievable, but Russia appears to be moving BUK systems back near the Ukrainian border again:

The Buk (Sa-11) is a multi vehicle system. A command control vehicle, a dedicated radar, and a launcher. The launcher has it's own radar, but it is much less sophisticated than the radar in the dedicated vehicle, and it would have to operate without the benefit of the C&C vehicle.

The launcher by itself is probably what shot down MH17 and it's partially blind condition probably contributed to the terrible mistake.

ETA: These photos appear to be of a Buk launcher and a loader.

Edited by Cerebus
Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

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Time: Russians Start Paying the Price for Putin’s Ukraine Adventure

Russians have started asking themselves — or rather, they have been forced to ask themselves — whether they are prepared to make real sacrifices for the sake of their country’s policy in Ukraine.
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The food ban was simply imposed by a Kremlin decree “to protect Russia’s security,” and the predictable result was a run on supermarkets in Moscow and other cities, a spike in prices and panic buying in the dairy aisle.

It was not the first measure to test the public’s patience on Ukraine. Desperate for cash to develop Crimea, the Russian government has dipped into the national pension fund, essentially deciding to confiscate everything its citizens will contribute to it this year and the next. “No one has any intention of giving this money back, because this money has gone to Crimea,” said Finance Minister Anton Siluanov. (His deputy was promptly fired when he confessed on Facebook that he “feels ashamed” for the expropriation on Aug. 5.)
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Two-thirds of the population, says Gudkov, place all responsibility for the crisis squarely on Putin and his inner circle rather than on themselves. Only 7% to 12% are prepared to make personal sacrifices for the sake of Russia’s policies in Ukraine, he says. “The rest take a characteristic position: ‘Leave me out of it.’”

But short of emigrating, Russians can’t opt out. They will all have to deal with the fact that inflation is due to reach up to 9% this year, while the Finance Ministry has proposed a new sales tax of 3% to plug holes in the federal budget that have largely resulted from the crisis in Ukraine. Diabetics in Russia are having to stock up on insulin just in case it winds up on the import ban as well.

Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

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More photos of Russian military vehicles in Ukraine.

What about the vehicles than entered last night? Depends on who you ask.

The Russian story:

The Ukrainian story:

Edited by Cerebus
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Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

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Posted

Full invasion upcoming?

I would guess 50% chance. Remember that Russia invaded Georgia over an "attack" on a soldier that was there illegally. They seem to be setting up the same scenario. While the actual aid trucks are at the border, the "peace keeping" forces are already in the Ukraine and Russia has warned not to attack them.

H-towngreen Newbie

H-towngreen

Posted
Posted

Where is the Ukraine getting its equipment and people from? I imagine the majority of Ukrainians are stepping up but where is the equipment coming from that's allowing them to withstand the Russians?

Cerebus Experienced

Cerebus

Posted
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Posted

Where is the Ukraine getting its equipment and people from? I imagine the majority of Ukrainians are stepping up but where is the equipment coming from that's allowing them to withstand the Russians?

Ukraine was the third largest nuclear power during the cold war. They had the second largest military in the Warsaw Pact. The have a population of almost 50 million.

Ukraine had almost its entire cold war arsenal in long term storage. They sold or permanently disabled very little of it. It's taken them months but they are slowly activating equipment, and every one of their calls for volunteer has been over subscribed.

They don't have a lot of advanced training or the ability to combine arms, but then they are fighting even more disorganized troops. They are winning ground by sheer weight of numbers and the government, people and militaries willingness to 1) accept high casualties and 2) use heavily artillery on urban areas.

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