Kiev Burning

[UNT90]

..

--Yep no service answer.. as expected... Me I will answer .. I took a physical during the Tet Offensive.. failed due to surgery I had as a child although was surprised that happened. I was not completely excused though and could have been called up. You are comparing this to WWII .. WOW.. Japan attacked us and Germany declared war on us the next day and besides it was a war to survive... not some regional war... When Germany invaded Poland in 1939 we had 175,000 men in uniform.. TOTAL... and not enough army camps to train in or weapons to supply a real fighting army.. We joined the war after Pearl Harbor over TWO years later, Dec, 1941 because we just we not capable of doing well.. ... Stick with the real subject... I did lose a great-great grandfather in the Civil War... family is uncertain where he died.. that is the way things were then... no dogtags etc. Don't make stupid assumptions about people.. including me... You are not the greatest smartest wisest guy on earth.. You refused to answer the service question but are willing to put other's lives on the line. We know the answer... none, never knew of anyone in military that would refuse to answer it.. most are proud to have served. . . I have a first cousin that made a career of the Air Force after Nam then worked at Sandia afterward.

Also ... many Americans were in British planes fighting in the air war "Battle of Britain" (knew one, flew Spitfires) and we were supplying them ammo and arms like crazy while we prepared..The first American troops on Europe soil invaded at Solerno Italy 10 months before Normandy and were trained in my hometown (36th division) .. knew some of them as well. An much older cousin was in the Bulge (age 17) under Patton.. about 20% of his unit survived. . ..but you won't answer... too private for you... hahaha.

Babahahahahahahahahahahahah.

You try to call someone out on service having NEVER SeRVED?!?!?

What a D-Bag move.

See, people who have served rarely wear it on their sleeve or use it in an Internet argument. It means a little more than that to them. Maybe you would know that IF YOU EVER SERVED your country in any capacity.

Man, thanks for a great early morning laugh.

Edited April 22, 2014 by UNT90

[Rudy]

--

..a lot of wars {The British had a lot and in a lot of places, , there was the Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, many in Asia, and many many more.. ... we just did not get involved.... how many major ones since WWII .. a lot of wars but they have all been regional and not worldwide and we seem to be involved in a lot of them unlike before. .

Which military group did you join and what war did you fight in... MY wife lost her father as the result of WWII and I lost my two best HS friends to Nam.... People die ... Are these really worth losing American lives or having them come back blind or without limbs. ??... You won't answer... Again which service did you fight in???? If you graduated in 90 ... Desert Storm was available for you... did you go.. or even join ...since you are so eager to fight a war.?? ... War is not a game... and it seems that you are a fan and not a participant.

.

Holy crap dude, please tell me you ARE NOT trying to imply WW II whould have been avoided, or that maybe it wasn't worth it.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Rudy

[HoustonEagle]

Well I would have lost the bet. I thought for sure this baby was going to be locked as soon as we started calling out people's service. Should only get better from here.......

[Rudy]

This thread has useful information and I would love to see it continue. The moronic postings just need to stop.

[H-towngreen]

This thread has useful information and I would love to see it continue. The moronic postings just need to stop.

Agreed. Scale back the name calling and personal attacks. Don't lock this down for the rest of us who are getting useful info out of this.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Holy crap dude, please tell me you ARE NOT trying to imply WW II whould have been avoided, or that maybe it wasn't worth it.

..

Maybe you should have read my last post first... I said nothing close to that...

" Those who know how terrible it is usually are the ones that don't want war until it is absolutely necessary... and I agree sometimes it is... WWII was one of them.".

Edited April 22, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Rudy]

Maybe you should realize that your last post seemed to contradict the other post you quoted. I would hope you were only misspeaking.

[UNT90]

Pres. Obama sends 600 troops to Poland and Romania (?) for exercises as a message to Putin.

Unless these are special forces, the only "message" this sends to Putin is that we have no commitment. I know Cerebus will come on here and tell us that Putin won't attack NATO countries, especially ones that have any kind of Military presence, no matter the number.

I'm just saying that Putin completely has Obama's number and sees this for exactly what it is: a weak response to a Russian violation of treaty and invasion of said treaty country.

This will do nothing to stop Putin. If his goal is to take Ukrane, he will. If his goal is to take Poland, he will.

And the USA will do nothing.

Edited April 23, 2014 by UNT90

[Quoner]

Agreed. Scale back the name calling and personal attacks. Don't lock this down for the rest of us who are getting useful info out of this.

Burning dog poo and the human response >>>>>> SE66 and the UNT90 response

[Censored by Laurie]

And the USA will do nothing.

So tell me...what would you do? Or...more accurately for you, perhaps...what would Reagan do?

[UNT90]

So tell me...what would you do? Or...more accurately for you, perhaps...what would Reagan do?

I would put a substantial force in Poland, Romania and Ukraine (so long as Ukraine wanted such forces).

I would also send a carrier group to the Black Sea and impose harsh sanctions on Russia.

At the same time I would make it very clear to Putin through diplomatic channels that we will remove these forces once he publicly orders a stand down of his forces, clears all special forces out of Ukraine, and vacates Crimea. I would make it very clear to him that if this doesn't occur, US and Russian forces will be staring across the border at each other indefinitely. The Russian border.

I would call Putin's bluff.

The fastest way to war is to tell the other side that you really don't care what happens or to attempt to placate that enemy. All men like Putin see in that is a sign of weakness. Putin respects only one thing, and that is strength. Follow something along the lines of the above steps will prevent a war, not cause one. What we are doing now is only emboldening an enemy and making that enemy's will stronger when an inevitable confrontation does occur.

Of course all this doesn't matter, because Putin KNOWS Pres. Obama will do nothing. That is the reason he has been as bold as he has been and will continue to be. We have to make it extremely painful for him and send our own message to the Russian people.

We haven't.

[Censored by Laurie]

I would put a substantial force in Poland, Romania and Ukraine (so long as Ukraine wanted such forces).

I would also send a carrier group to the Black Sea and impose harsh sanctions on Russia.

At the same time I would make it very clear to Putin through diplomatic channels that we will remove these forces once he publicly orders a stand down of his forces, clears all special forces out of Ukraine, and vacates Crimea. I would make it very clear to him that if this doesn't occur, US and Russian forces will be staring across the border at each other indefinitely. The Russian border.

I would call Putin's bluff.

The fastest way to war is to tell the other side that you really don't care what happens or to attempt to placate that enemy. All men like Putin see in that is a sign of weakness. Putin respects only one thing, and that is strength. Follow something along the lines of the above steps will prevent a war, not cause one. What we are doing now is only emboldening an enemy and making that enemy's will stronger when an inevitable confrontation does occur.

Of course all this doesn't matter, because Putin KNOWS Pres. Obama will do nothing. That is the reason he has been as bold as he has been and will continue to be. We have to make it extremely painful for him and send our own message to the Russian people.

We haven't.

We've already seen billions of investment dollars leaving Russia amid uncertainty. I'd too would like to see stronger sanctions from the U.S....however for them to have any real impact they'd need to be met in kind from the rest of Western Europe...a Western Europe hesitant to do so due in large part to their dependence on Russian oil. Say the rest of the West goes in on harsh sanctions with the agreement that the U.S. starts funneling in a large part of it's strategic oil reserve into Europe. Is that a move you make?

I also think you grossly over-estimate the amount of damns Putin gives about the U.S. I think you have the number up around "lots" when it's far closer to, if not spot on "none". You honestly believe that 100,000 troops in Poland and Romania and a carrier group in the Black Sea will quell the "local, ethnically Russian uprisings" in Donetsk? It wouldn't. He'd continue to staunchly deny that these are actually Russian forces. So what then...American forces in Donetsk?

If Putin really does long for the days of the Cold War, he'd welcome military stand-offs, stalemates and staring contests with the West. Just a couple of alphas with a three-foot high table, trousers around their ankles seeing whose is longer. Hopefully, we're beyond that as a nation.

[UNT90]

We've already seen billions of investment dollars leaving Russia amid uncertainty. I'd too would like to see stronger sanctions from the U.S....however for them to have any real impact they'd need to be met in kind from the rest of Western Europe...a Western Europe hesitant to do so due in large part to their dependence on Russian oil. Say the rest of the West goes in on harsh sanctions with the agreement that the U.S. starts funneling in a large part of it's strategic oil reserve into Europe. Is that a move you make?

I also think you grossly over-estimate the amount of damns Putin gives about the U.S. I think you have the number up around "lots" when it's far closer to, if not spot on "none". You honestly believe that 100,000 troops in Poland and Romania and a carrier group in the Black Sea will quell the "local, ethnically Russian uprisings" in Donetsk? It wouldn't. He'd continue to staunchly deny that these are actually Russian forces. So what then...American forces in Donetsk?

If Putin really does long for the days of the Cold War, he'd welcome military stand-offs, stalemates and staring contests with the West. Just a couple of alphas with a three-foot high table, trousers around their ankles seeing whose is longer. Hopefully, we're beyond that as a nation.

We aren't beyond it if Putin won't let us be. And while there were staring contests in the Cold War, absolutely zero of them occurred ON the Russian border. If we wait around, we may find that Russia has re-appropriated it's "cushion countries" and has no problem with any "staring war."

I guess you missed that I would also put forces in Ukraine. Specifically in eastern Ukraine. These forces would seal a perimeter around the buildings occupied by "freedom fighters" AKA Russian Special Forces, would cut off their supply line and starve them out. When they did finally surrender after 30 days without food, I would make sure to have the media present to show them the Russian special forces equipment seized from the soldiers or the buildings they formerly occupied.

You don't have to engage them directly, just seal their supply route and wait.

Again, we can either do this now or do it later with a emboldened Putin with a much greater will.

You are absolutely right. Putin doesn't give 2 s about the USA. But that is because he knows the US leader has zero political will for a conflict. That is a huge tactical advantage.

[Censored by Laurie]

We aren't beyond it if Putin won't let us be. And while there were staring contests in the Cold War, absolutely zero of them occurred ON the Russian border. If we wait around, we may find that Russia has re-appropriated it's "cushion countries" and has no problem with any "staring war."

I guess you missed that I would also put forces in Ukraine. Specifically in eastern Ukraine. These forces would seal a perimeter around the buildings occupied by "freedom fighters" AKA Russian Special Forces, would cut off their supply line and starve them out. When they did finally surrender after 30 days without food, I would make sure to have the media present to show them the Russian special forces equipment seized from the soldiers or the buildings they formerly occupied.

You don't have to engage them directly, just seal their supply route and wait.

Again, we can either do this now or do it later with a emboldened Putin with a much greater will.

You are absolutely right. Putin doesn't give 2 s about the USA. But that is because he knows the US leader has zero political will for a conflict. That is a huge tactical advantage.

And if Putin's response to American forces in Donetsk is to choke the oil supply from Russia to Western Europe?

This is why Western Europe is already reticent to engage in harsher sanctions...so if uni-lateral American military involvement leads to the same end, we've again acted brashly and alienated allies.

[Cerebus]

[Rudy]

If Putin really does long for the days of the Cold War, he'd welcome military stand-offs, stalemates and staring contests with the West. Just a couple of alphas with a three-foot high table, trousers around their ankles seeing whose is longer. Hopefully, we're beyond that as a nation.

We aren't beyond it if Putin won't let us be. And while there were staring contests in the Cold War, absolutely zero of them occurred ON the Russian border. If we wait around, we may find that Russia has re-appropriated it's "cushion countries" and has no problem with any "staring war."

In the long run, it does no good to be the winner of a measuring contest if we are still standing around the table saying, "We're bigger", if the other party is on the bed banging the chick.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Maybe you should realize that your last post seemed to contradict the other post you quoted. I would hope you were only misspeaking.

--

---The quote of mine was from the "last" post ....meaning the my post immediately prior to your comment.. I am clueless how you think I thought WWII was unjustified from any post of mine..... I didn't think the Iraq invasion was justified as did most European countries then.... explains why very few assisted us in the actual invasion ..... I just hope sensible people make good decisions in this situation..... So far I don't see any very good reason to risk American lives.... the person here who apparently never spent one day in military is all for it.

The "what would Reagan do comment"... I don't remember him invading any country other than Granada....and taking Noriega out of Panama...( both in North America ) He did not even invade Libya but sent bombers to bomb Qaddafi as a message after Lockerbee and sent no troops ( it worked) .... He would likely do about the same that is happening now .. He didn't invade Iran or Afghanistan then either.... How about Lebanon when they blew up our barracks killing 200 marines... no invasion or war... Besides what made him all-knowing anyway. The Iron Curtain fell apart when Bush Sr. was in office ( and the justified Desert Storm) and I am not sure why the Reagan worshipers think he was responsible... what did he do other than say "Tear down this wall"..?.

I was in Europe the summer before the Wall fell ... and I heard several times (especially from a German guy) that the situation in USSR was very unstable .. I did not believe them... but they were right... and in fact it was much more unstable than they were predicting.... the whole country came apart not just those on the western side getting free.

Edited April 23, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Cerebus]

See you suckers later.

[UNT Five&Dime]

This is why we can't have nice things

[KRAM1]

Let's just sit down and talk to them. That seems to be working out really well these days...hey maybe CBL can run for election and use that as a campaign slogan or something. It ALWAYS works great with folks throughout history.

Could even use the refrain, "Peace in our time"... Would definitely get the pacifist/hippie vote. It's a start, right? He might even get the electoral vote from Conn....I'm thinking Carter might still be available to run as his VP if the announcement comes pretty quickly. Might not want to delay too long to get with Carter. :-)

Hey, SE-66 might even want to be CBL's campaign manager! Just think, first ever GMG.Com election slate....possibility?

OK, OK, slow day here...just having some fun as this thread is pretty much heading the way of the climate change one....no real discussion...just same folks making the same comments over and over and over and over. Well, pretty much anyway. That's why it's in the pie thread, yes?

[Cerebus]

OK, OK, slow day here...just having some fun as this thread is pretty much heading the way of the climate change one....no real discussion...just same folks making the same comments over and over and over and over.

Actually it was one guy posting a ton of updates, a couple dozen reading them, asking good questions, adding their own insight and updates and trying to in general make it a good thread... but then there were 2-3 people being complete wastes of human flesh.

To the people in the first group: congrats, you were awesome.

To the people in the second group:

[adman]

Speaking of updates - do you happen to have any? Love reading them.

[Rudy]

Everything I'm seeing it doesn't look good. Apparently now the Russians are saying they are going to "protect their interests".

[H-towngreen]

Speaking of updates - do you happen to have any? Love reading them.

It seems the Ukraines are going to re-deploy their "anti-terrorisim" units in the region.

[UNT90]

And if Putin's response to American forces in Donetsk is to choke the oil supply from Russia to Western Europe?

This is why Western Europe is already reticent to engage in harsher sanctions...so if uni-lateral American military involvement leads to the same end, we've again acted brashly and alienated allies.

Which is why you release done of the reserve to Western Europe. We also find a way to supply them with natural gas, which we have in abundance.

I don't think this will be that big of an issue, as Western Europe has already shown concern for the situation that will directly affect them. But you would have to do this through diplomacy and make Western Europe trust your promises. I don't think any if our own allies have that kind of faith on the current administration.