Kiev Burning

[Rudy]

A recording proving that Russia is backing separatists in eastern Ukraine has surfaced online. The SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) taped the operatives, whose code names are "Nose," "Adler," "Shooter" and "Agath," discussing strategy, weapon stockpiles, and requests for reinforcements.[/quote}

Ummmm, is there something one of our GMG board members needs to confess?

[Army of Dad]

Or one of our coaches?

[Cerebus]

Putin admits Russian forces were deployed to Crimea

"We had to take unavoidable steps so that events did not develop as they are currently developing in southeast Ukraine," Putin said in a televised call-in with the nation. "Of course our troops stood behind Crimea's self-defence forces."

Putin then stated, "but how can you stay mad at me, look at how adorable this puppy is!"

Putin had the puppy executed less than twenty minutes later after it refused to answer whether he was a good boy or not. The Russian media hailed it as a brave step against the Fascist West. The Russian populace remained largely inebriated.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Cerebus

[forevereagle]

The best part of it is that he admits that they were in Crimea. Then goes on to say "but we are totally not in Eastern Ukraine".

[Cerebus]

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Ukrainian and Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website.

---

The leaflets bore the name of Denis Pushilin, who identified himself as chairman of "Donetsk's temporary government," and were distributed near the Donetsk synagogue and other areas, according to the reports.

[forevereagle]

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

When does Godwin's Law happen and would this actually be the most apt application ever?

[UNT90]

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

Still against the Hitler comparison?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

-- Who does Denis Pushilin ( that ordered the Jewish registration) actually represent....a legit government or just some wacko group...( we even have some..Aryan Brotherhood ) The Ukraine is a total mess.... with no real well supported government.... plus toss in that Russia is trying to exploit the situation to their advantage.... This whole "situation" started in Kiev, Ukraine (not very near Russia) when the locals got tired of the government they had.

-- We need to remember the past .. Saddam was bad but is what replaced him any better ?? At least Iraq had never performed any terrorists acts toward us when he was there..he was a thug and killing the Islamic crazies and Al Qaeda types there.. he feared them also. (our real enemy) . ... What about Syria .. which still hasn't sorted it all out.. Will the new group be better.. .. Careful who we support..

Edited April 17, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Cerebus]

The Ukraine is a total mess.... with no real well supported government....

Do you speak directly to Putin or do you just subscribe to his newsletter? I don't see how you copy his talking points exactly without one or the other.

This whole "situation" started in Kiev, Ukraine (not very near Russia) when the locals got tired of the government they had.

So Putin subverts a countries government, and then when the people rise up to remove that corruption via their constitutional measures, Putin can call THAT anarchy and be forced to send in Russian forces to replace his now removed cronies with new ones?

Good to know your opinion, I'll just choose to disagree.

[Cerebus]

Still against the Hitler comparison?

These are just one off nut balls, like the guy who said Russia should annex America and put Obama in the Moscow Zoo with the gorillas. Neither is speaking for Putin.

However, it is indicative to show how shallow Putin's words that he needs to step in to prevent fascism are.

[Censored by Laurie]

These are just one off nut balls, like the guy who said Russia should annex America and put Obama in the Moscow Zoo with the gorillas. Neither is speaking for Putin.

Still against the Jane Goodall comparison?

[Cerebus]

Putin Asserts Right to Use Force in Eastern Ukraine

Mr. Putin repeatedly referred to eastern Ukraine as “New Russia” — as the area north of the Black Sea was known after it was conquered by the Russian Empire in the late 1700s. He said only “God knows” why it became part of Ukraine in 1920.

---

Speaking in a televised question-and-answer show, Mr. Putin also admitted for the first time that Russian armed forces had been deployed in Crimea, the disputed peninsula Russia annexed last month immediately after a large majority of the population voted in a referendum to secede from Ukraine.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Do you speak directly to Putin or do you just subscribe to his newsletter? I don't see how you copy his talking points exactly without one or the other.

So Putin subverts a countries government, and then when the people rise up to remove that corruption via their constitutional measures, Putin can call THAT anarchy and be forced to send in Russian forces to replace his now removed cronies with new ones?

Good to know your opinion, I'll just choose to disagree.

..

---How do you get I support anything or any one.... especially Russia.... The locals in Ukraine were tired of the government they had and tossed it.... that has led to a lot of instability.... and Russia is trying to take advantage of it at least in Crimea ....That is not good for the locals or us especially since they have so many nuclear weapons in the area. I am not so sure we would do a lot different if things went to hell in Canada especially in an area where a lot of American people lived. There is now no evidence that the idiot that wanted Jews registered had any connection with the Russia government.... It is possible I suppose but no indication of that yet. Just remember that about 20 years ago a lot of those people now alive were under the Russian or USSR government..... maybe many of them think things were better then than now in a country with a government in chaos..We need to monitor everything and see what happens is not contradictory to what most people there want. Why do you think I support Putin... I have never stated anything close to that..... only that the Crimea has a long history of being Russian... even before the USSR existed.

Edited April 17, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNT90]

..

---How do you get I support anything or any one....

If only you had stopped here, mutual agreements would happen.

I think if Mexico invaded New Mexico and Arizona, you would tell us they deserved that land because we stole it from them.

I also think your world views are so circa 1934.

Please continue.

Edited April 17, 2014 by UNT90

[All About UNT]

If only you had stopped here, mutual agreements would happen.

I think if Mexico invaded New Mexico and Arizona, you would tell us they deserved that land because we stole it from them.

I also think your world views are so circa 1934.

Please continue.

Or pre-1941? Remember this country existed for over 150 years without feeling the overbearing need to interfere in every international conflict.

[UNT90]

Or pre-1941? Remember this country existed for over 150 years without feeling the overbearing need to interfere in every international conflict.

And how many major wars occurred during that time?

The world changes. Pre-1941 was pre-nukes, pre-superpowers, pre-information revolution. When we abdicate the leading role in the world, someone will try to step up and fill it. That is Putin's overall objective. It's also China's, but they have a much different game plan in how to achieve it (basically owning us).

We should be fighting back on both these fronts. Instead, we do nothing.

[HoustonEagle]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/01/23/is-chinas-ownership-of-u-s-debt-a-national-security-threat/

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

And how many major wars occurred during that time?

The world changes. Pre-1941 was pre-nukes, pre-superpowers, pre-information revolution. When we abdicate the leading role in the world, someone will try to step up and fill it. That is Putin's overall objective. It's also China's, but they have a much different game plan in how to achieve it (basically owning us).

We should be fighting back on both these fronts. Instead, we do nothing.

--

..a lot of wars {The British had a lot and in a lot of places, , there was the Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, many in Asia, and many many more.. ... we just did not get involved.... how many major ones since WWII .. a lot of wars but they have all been regional and not worldwide and we seem to be involved in a lot of them unlike before. .

Which military group did you join and what war did you fight in... MY wife lost her father as the result of WWII and I lost my two best HS friends to Nam.... People die ... Are these really worth losing American lives or having them come back blind or without limbs. ??... You won't answer... Again which service did you fight in???? If you graduated in 90 ... Desert Storm was available for you... did you go.. or even join ...since you are so eager to fight a war.?? ... War is not a game... and it seems that you are a fan and not a participant.

.

Edited April 21, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNT90]

Which military group did you join and what war did you fight in... MY wife lost her father as the result of WWII and I lost my two best HS friends to Nam.... People die ... Are these really worth losing American lives or having them come back blind or without limbs. ??... You won't answer... Again which service did you fight in???? If you graduated in 90 ... Desert Storm was available for you... did you go?

.

Yes, they are worth it because, unfortunately, there is a price for freedom. If it were up to you, we would have sat idly by while Germany took England, then Rusia, then China. You probably would have wanted to negotiate with Japan after Pearl Harbor.

My service is quite frankly none of your damn business, but lets just say I'm quite positive it far outweighs yours.

This is what far left liberals do when confronted with facts. Go straight to the emotional appeal.

Should the north just have just let the south succeed to avoid bloodshed and let Slavery continue unabated? Would that have been fine and dandy with you? I mean, it is the most deadly war in American history.

You want all the priveledges without being willing to make any of the sacrifices. Not surprised.

Edited April 21, 2014 by UNT90

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Yes, they are worth it because, unfortunately, there is a price for freedom. If it were up to you, we would have sat idly by while Germany took England, then Rusia, then China. You probably would have wanted to negotiate with Japan after Pearl Harbor.

My service is quite frankly none of your damn business, but lets just say I'm quite positive it far outweighs yours.

This is what far left liberals do when confronted with facts. Go straight to the emotional appeal.

Should the north just have just let the south succeed to avoid bloodshed and let Slavery continue unabated? Would that have been fine and dandy with you? I mean, it is the most deadly war in American history.

You want all the priveledges without being willing to make any of the sacrifices. Not surprised.

..

--Yep no service answer.. as expected... Me I will answer .. I took a physical during the Tet Offensive.. failed due to surgery I had as a child although was surprised that happened. I was not completely excused though and could have been called up. You are comparing this to WWII .. WOW.. Japan attacked us and Germany declared war on us the next day and besides it was a war to survive... not some regional war... When Germany invaded Poland in 1939 we had 175,000 men in uniform.. TOTAL... and not enough army camps to train in or weapons to supply a real fighting army.. We joined the war after Pearl Harbor over TWO years later, Dec, 1941 because we just we not capable of doing well.. ... Stick with the real subject... I did lose a great-great grandfather in the Civil War... family is uncertain where he died.. that is the way things were then... no dogtags etc. Don't make stupid assumptions about people.. including me... You are not the greatest smartest wisest guy on earth.. You refused to answer the service question but are willing to put other's lives on the line. We know the answer... none, never knew of anyone in military that would refuse to answer it.. most are proud to have served. . . I have a first cousin that made a career of the Air Force after Nam then worked at Sandia afterward.

Also ... many Americans were in British planes fighting in the air war "Battle of Britain" (knew one, flew Spitfires) and we were supplying them ammo and arms like crazy while we prepared..The first American troops on Europe soil invaded at Solerno Italy 10 months before Normandy and were trained in my hometown (36th division) .. knew some of them as well. An much older cousin was in the Bulge (age 17) under Patton.. about 20% of his unit survived. . ..but you won't answer... too private for you... hahaha.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[KRAM1]

..

--Yep no service answer.. as expected... Me I will answer . ..but you won't answer... ha.

I will answer...I took a draft physical in 1966....was about to fail it, but talked my way into a pass. Ended up serving as an Air Force officer during the Viet Nam era...'72-'75. Do I get pie?

And, since I actually served...can I comment?

Lots of similarities here in my opinion between the WWII build up with Nazi Germany. If one can't see the parallels they either don't want to or are just not wanting to admit it...yes, lots of differences as well, but remember the "Peace in Our Time" thing? Remember all the promises Germany made if the West would just give them the Sudatenland, Austria, etc.? How'd that work out for the Allies?

And...talk about stretching it...if you are of the age to have taken a Viet Nam era draft physical you darn sure know or know of or knew folks who served in WWII. Knowing someone who served does not make one any sort of expert on serving during a time of conflict, nor does it give one any sort of unique insights. And, if one did not actually set foot in Viet Nam, it is doubtful they have any real perspective on what it was like to have done so. Just like those who fought in WWII, Korea, Desert Storm, etc., etc. it's personal.

I really dislike it when folks get into this "served/didn't serve thing. UNT90 is correct in that sense...no body's business one way or the other...telling or not telling is a personal thing. I respect that position. And while I am proud to say "I served" others have every right to keep it to themselves.

So, you guys carry on your back and forth, but let's back off the suggestion/inuendo that one is or is not "better" in their argument for having or having not actually served and how they might have served.

Carry on...

[THOR]

Ya know...war sucks, but it's necessary...me..never gonna be involved nor would I have volunteered back in the day...thankful for those that did and do...but military life is not for me...

That does not say that I care less or my thoughts don't matter...Some lifestyles are not for everyone...but I'm glad military life works for others

[KRAM1]

That does not say that I care less or my thoughts don't matter...Some lifestyles are not for everyone...but I'm glad military life works for others

Agree...that's the point. Thus...back off the "I am better than you" because thing. Agree Thor, agree.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Agree...that's the point. Thus...back off the "I am better than you" because thing. Agree Thor, agree.

..

---I think you missing my point....what you are saying is not my point... those who have never served don't need to be urging us into a war.. Those who know how terrible it is usually are the ones that don't want war until it is absolutely necessary... and I agree sometimes it is... WWII was one of them.. The situation in Ukraine is not to that level yet but UNT90 thinks it is.. He is also making hair-brained conclusions that I would have not wanted us to go into WWII.. He won't mention about his service or that he has lost friends or family as the result of war... he just sits on the side and complains and urges war with nothing personal at stake....

I honestly think we would not have invaded Iraq if W. Bush had actually been in a war-zone during Nam (there were no nukes and most Europeans said that was true and refused to assist him in Iraq..it wasn't about be afraid as some were portrayed )... W. spent the Nam war in Texas and Alabama (supposedly) . I lost very good friends because of Nam.. Not much record if any of W. even attending any meetings that were supposedly required during Nam... Ever hear of any of his military buddies coming forward to make any comments pro or con about him.?? As for his father, yes he knew what it was like and had served in a war-zone... I respect his decision to run Saddam out of Kuwait... plus no one in Kuwait wanted Saddam there and their government was stable... That is not the same as exists now...

All of us are liberals compared to UNT90... because he is so extreme and knows everything.

Edited April 22, 2014 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNT90]

..

---I think you missing my point....what you are saying is not my point... those who have never served don't need to be urging us into a war.. Those who know how terrible it is usually are the ones that don't want war until it is absolutely necessary... and I agree sometimes it is... WWII was one of them.. The situation in Ukraine is not to that level yet but UNT90 thinks it is.. He is also making hair-brained conclusions that I would have not wanted us to go into WWII.. He won't mention about his service or that he has lost friends or family as the result of war... he just sits on the side and complains and urges war with nothing personal at stake....

I honestly think we would not have invaded Iraq if W. Bush had actually been in a war-zone during Nam (there were no nukes and most Europeans said that was true and refused to assist him in Iraq..it wasn't about be afraid as some were portrayed )... W. spent the Nam war in Texas and Alabama (supposedly) . I lost very good friends because of Nam.. Not much record if any of W. even attending any meetings that were supposedly required during Nam... Ever hear of any of his military buddies coming forward to make any comments pro or con about him.?? As for his father, yes he knew what it was like and had served in a war-zone... I respect his decision to run Saddam out of Kuwait... plus no one in Kuwait wanted Saddam there and their government was stable... That is not the same as exists now...

All of us are liberals compared to UNT90... because he is so extreme and knows everything.

Way to turn a great thread on a big problem RIGHT NOW for the USA into another "George W. is the DEVIL!" thread. You are further left than I am right, compadre, you are just too dishonest to admit it.

By your theory, Pres. Obama could never lead us into war because he doesn't have military service. Just stupid and uninformed. Then again, that's what your pacifist self probably wants.

I never said we should be going to war against Russia. Way to misstate my views (but that's what hardcore liberals do in an argument). I said we should take no option off the table. Doing so only encourages Putin's behavior.

It's really disgusting that you cheapen the service of those that did sacrifice life or limb by telling them that it wasn't worth it in the opinion of the almighty 66. Ever think THEY may disagree with you? But you know better than them, don't you lefty?