John Odoh

Andrew · January 23, 2014

There are few people I would trust on these boards. Cooley is right there with NT03 (usually), myself (but not in the recruiting front) and a few others that I have learned more about after conversations in messages.

I am still waiting for an answer to my previous question. Are you taking minutes into account? Stats will always go up when a player plays more minutes. That is natural and has nothing to do with coaching. Again Benford is not developing players at an expectional rate either but like JJ he is trying to play to his teams strengths and bring in his system.

Out of thempaypal who have returned I have seen little if any regression at this point. CJ did during his injury but the past two games is turning back the clock to his freshmen year (minus the scoring). Colman is much improved and everyone else is consistent with where they have been.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Andrew

Cooley · January 23, 2014

Stop...For the love of God....please stop. When it gets down to ragging on one of the two best and knowledgeable basketball sources we have on this board, it has just gone too far.
For the love of God....just stop!

I expressed a basketball opinion without bashing anyone. Folks just have to respectfully disagree or don't comment. I don't need some box score analyst telling me what I just saw at a ball game. I don't agree with half the stuff I read on here but I don't chime in unnecessarily and call somebody or post stupid or dumb. To hell with him!

I'm sorry Kram!

Edited January 23, 2014 by Cooley

CMJ · January 23, 2014

Andrew...one could argue that the reason they didn't get the minutes earlier was because they weren't good enough to. These are circular arguments all day long.

Edited January 23, 2014 by CMJ

CMJ · January 23, 2014

Unfortunately Cooley -- the so called "eye test" is something that can't ever be debated in a rational way. It's like faith or something. To one person an event might be a miracle, to another it's explainable. If you don't believe statistics, fine. But we don't necessarily take you eye test as the ultimate word either.

So....circular arguments again.

Andrew · January 23, 2014

Andrew...one could argue that the reason they didn't get the minutes earlier was because they weren't good enough to. These are circular arguments all day long.

Well in general freshman do not get minutes (outside of big name schools) because there are upperclassman with more experience or who may be better. It does not mean the freshman were not good enough but that they found themselves behind a junior or senior who has experience in the coaches system. I cannot remember everyone who was there when Tristan and josh arrived but wasn't Ben Bell and Dennis or maybe Watson (though I think he graduated). All came in as seniors who played in the NCAA tournament. There were just not minutes. Once they got more minutes they played to their potential. I never once saw Tristan's defense get any better... Ever...

forevereagle · January 23, 2014

There are few people I would trust on these boards. Colley is right there with NT03 (usually), myself (but not in the recruiting front) and a few others that I have learned more about after conversations in messages.

I think that puts you in a very, very exclusive group of 1.

Green P1 · January 23, 2014

I think that puts you in a very, very exclusive group of 1.

He actually listed himself... lolz

Cooley · January 23, 2014

Unfortunately Cooley -- the so called "eye test" is something that can't ever be debated in a rational way. It's like faith or something. To one person an event might be a miracle, to another it's explainable. If you don't believe statistics, fine. But we don't necessarily take you eye test as the ultimate word either.

So....circular arguments again.

That's why it is called an opinion CMJ. And help me find the post where I have ever professed to know anymore than anyone else on here. Or, where I felt so damn smart, intelligent or knowledgeable where I felt compelled to call someone's post stupid? The arrogance of some people.

CMJ · January 23, 2014

That's why it is called an opinion CMJ. And help me find the post where I have ever professed to know anymore than anyone else on here. Or, where I felt so damn smart, intelligent or knowledgeable where I felt compelled to call someone's post stupid? The arrogance of some people.

I didn't call you stupid (and to be fair...CBL didn't either...he just said the post was)? I did/do question you on this though. But it's all water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.

greenminer · January 23, 2014

This forum used to be a land of love and green-lit towers.

Cooley · January 23, 2014

I didn't call you stupid (and to be fair...CBL didn't either...he just said the post was)? I did/do question you on this though. But it's all water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.

Sorry if I left the impression that you did. I know you guys are buds but it ok.

CMJ · January 23, 2014

Sorry if I left the impression that you did. I know you guys are buds but it ok.

Oddly enough, we've never met in real life. We're just "net buds" or whatever that is called. :lol:

Andrew · January 23, 2014

I dislike Larry brown.... Not relevant but I did not want to make a new post...

http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id/10331036/southern-methodist-mustangs-basketball-coach-larry-brown-already-talking-national-title-just-second-year-dallas

Green92 · January 23, 2014

There are definitely some blow hard knowitalls around here.

Cooley · January 23, 2014

Oddly enough, we've never met in real life. We're just "net buds" or whatever that is called.

I thought I read where y'all were meeting up for game in LA. (UNT) during a tournament out there. Maybe someone else. That would be an interesting thread. Who do you feel like you are most connected to on this board despite never meeting them?

CMJ · January 23, 2014

I thought I read where y'all were meeting up for game in LA. (UNT) during a tournament out there. Maybe someone else. That would be an interesting thread. Who do you feel like you are most connected to on this board despite never meeting them?

That was TheTastyGreek with his wife that came out for the LMU tournament.

KRAM1 · January 23, 2014

If the tone of this thread is not enough to make a few folks take a step back I doubt any thread will. Like I have said here before, very difficult these days to have a real discussion about anything UNT basketball related. Too many just want to make it personal or all about the coach. One cannot even discuss players without the name calling starting up.

Folks, really, time to take a breath and give it a rest. I think everyone pretty much where everyone stands. So, given that, how about we get back to basketball and allow again what used to be some pretty decent basketball discussions.

There are differences of opinion on what's going on with the men's team these days...fine...simply opinions all. Let's get back to accepting opinions for what they are and start enjoying the ride again.

I am not too sure such will happen, but let's just say I am hopeful.

emmitt01 · January 23, 2014

I dislike Larry brown.... Not relevant but I did not want to make a new post...
http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id/10331036/southern-methodist-mustangs-basketball-coach-larry-brown-already-talking-national-title-just-second-year-dallas

I watched SMU play Rutgers last night. I too dislike Larry Brown in his 1st year.

I dislike that his team played aggressive defense.

I dislike that they had an offensive system.

I dislike that they passed with a purpose.

I dislike that coaching matters...and we don't have it.

UNT90 · January 23, 2014

If the tone of this thread is not enough to make a few folks take a step back I doubt any thread will. Like I have said here before, very difficult these days to have a real discussion about anything UNT basketball related. Too many just want to make it personal or all about the coach. One cannot even discuss players without the name calling starting up.
Folks, really, time to take a breath and give it a rest. I think everyone pretty much where everyone stands. So, given that, how about we get back to basketball and allow again what used to be some pretty decent basketball discussions.
There are differences of opinion on what's going on with the men's team these days...fine...simply opinions all. Let's get back to accepting opinions for what they are and start enjoying the ride again.
I am not too sure such will happen, but let's just say I am hopeful.

Ya, problem is, just about the entire student body and many alums have decided to "give it a rest" when it comes to UNT basketball in general.

But I'm sure the coach has nothing to do with that.

MeanGreenDan · January 23, 2014

If the tone of this thread is not enough to make a few folks take a step back I doubt any thread will. Like I have said here before, very difficult these days to have a real discussion about anything UNT basketball related. Too many just want to make it personal or all about the coach. One cannot even discuss players without the name calling starting up.
Folks, really, time to take a breath and give it a rest. I think everyone pretty much where everyone stands. So, given that, how about we get back to basketball and allow again what used to be some pretty decent basketball discussions.
There are differences of opinion on what's going on with the men's team these days...fine...simply opinions all. Let's get back to accepting opinions for what they are and start enjoying the ride again.
I am not too sure such will happen, but let's just say I am hopeful.

I have to chuckle every time you call out others for degenerating a thread on this board, when you've been responsible for doing it to a good number of threads yourself.

Green P1 · January 23, 2014

Curse you John Odoh. YOU'RE TEARING THIS FANBASE APART

Army of Dad · January 23, 2014

I don't see how there can be any reduction in vitriol on the basketball board anytime in the near future.

Serious question, was this what the football board was like during the dodge years?

Green92 · January 23, 2014

I don't see how there can be any reduction in vitriol on the basketball board anytime in the near future.
Serious question, was this what the football board was like during the dodge years?

Probably worse. People hated Dodge worse than the devil. It got really personal.

Censored by Laurie · January 23, 2014

You tell me yours!!!

You didn't see any of these guys until they got to UNT. (Mr. Stat Guy) How did they improve their shooting, rebounding, passing etc. when they already had that exact skill when they got herel? Stop reading box scores so much and go to a damn game! The fact that you have to get personal tells me that you have a very weak argument. JJ has been known as a recruiter for years. If he was good at developing players he would have been gone long time ago.

Again, tell me what skills they improved upon that they didn't already have when they came here? (Don't think they track that in the box scores)

I used numbers to actually provide some sort of empirical evidence and objective evidence for my statements...college numbers, of course...since we we're discussing their college careers and considering the list of kids who could drop 40 in a high school game and then never sniff a college basketball floor is massive...but let's not let that obscure the fact that my opinion is more formed from not just having watched live all but maybe a dozen home games from 01-07, but also from the first-hand experience of having played and scrimmaged with and against many of these players. Perhaps I was able to see certain things from the basketball floor that you couldn't see from your seat.

But if you want specifics, here's a few...

- I saw Hop learn how to use his body, even developing some effective post moves, especially as his athleticism continued to decline late in his career due to his foot issues.

- I saw Rogers slow down and learn how to run a team, rather than just being a change-of-pace guard...he went from a 15 minute a night sub to a starter and leader who I swear played 40 minutes a night by conference play his senior year.

- If you didn't see a significant evolution in Calvin's game...I really don't know what to say

- I saw Simpson, in only his two seasons here, go from a pure energy athlete who got his buckets on nothing but lobs and put-backs, to one who developed a consistent baby-hook and some semblance of a post game

- I saw Q go from a timid and soft kid with terrible foot-work and range that you might measure in inches rather than feet develop into one of the best post players of the JJ era...one who understood how to use his body, read the ball better as a rebounder and could knock down 12-15 foot shots.

And let me be clear about something...I've never said JJ was great at developing talent. He's tried projects like Howerton and Knox and missed...and he certainly never got the best out of players like Ty Thomas and Ron Harris...but your initial contention was that JJ didn't develop talent. That's just not right. You're either saying that JJ essentially rolled out high school all-star teams for 11 seasons...or that you feel that some of these players would've turned out significantly better with different coaching. Either way, it's insulting and disparaging towards what JJ did here...and if the last season and a half has taught us anything, its that swipes like that should probably stop.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Censored by Laurie