Was this the best NT team ever?

FirefightnRick · January 20, 2014

No way the 2002 defense was better than this years. Our second half defense was unbelievable.
Also, the '13 team had wins against very good teams too, such as Rice, Ball State and MTSU. Works both ways. Two ten win teams.
I think this was the best team ever fielded at NT. Statistically it is. Our end of the season ranking was as high as we've been since the 70s.
Sorry to the DD groupies. Just the facts.

Yes way. Look up the stats. Our '02 and '03 defenses were top 15 in Run defense, Score Defense, Pass Defense and Total Defense.

The '02 team, once the offense stopped setting up Texas inside our 20 yard line the entire first half, shut Texas out in the second half. That Texas team went 11-2.

Lost to 11-3 Alabama 33-7.

Lost to 10-2 TCU by 6.

Lost to 9-2 S. Florida by 7.

Lost at Arizona on the road at the goal line.

Also, three players would go on to play on Sunday's off that '02 team.

And don't forget, it was mentioned earlier, when judging who beat 10 win teams, the 70's era teams didnt play in an era where everyone played 12 regular season games, plus a conference championship and a bowl game. There were only a few bowl games back then.

I believe one of those '70's era teams was ranked in the top 20. Is that correct?

Rick

Edited January 20, 2014 by FirefightnRick

greenminer · January 20, 2014

FWIW

2013:

AVE SCORE UNT 32 OPP 18
AVE in W UNT 38 OPP 13
AVE in L UNT 19 OPP 29

2002:

AVE SCORE UNT 18 OPP 14
AVE in W UNT 25 OPP 8
AVE in L UNT 9 OPP 23

FirefightnRick · January 20, 2014

..... it just seems like beating in state conference teams and winning a bowl game in Dallas is one of the greatest achievement for any North Texas team.

It is. I for one would never argue that it wasn't. And of your looking for a unifier season, it may go down as THE greatest year that brings the most people into the Mean Green Nation fold.

Rick

greenminer · January 20, 2014

Brelan Chancellor and Zach Orr will both have huge NFL careers.

I hope they do, but I don't share your confidence.

I didn't have confidence (for NFL careers) back then, either. But we're (both) talking about players that love to prove people wrong!

Best wishes to them. I hope they stay involved with UNT.

greenminer · January 20, 2014

The more I reminisce about these teams the more I wish I collected programs from every game. I think that might be a 2014 Season resolution for me.

FirefightnRick · January 20, 2014

FWIW

2013:

AVE SCORE UNT 32 OPP 18
AVE in W UNT 38 OPP 13
AVE in L UNT 19 OPP 29

2002:

AVE SCORE UNT 18 OPP 14
AVE in W UNT 25 OPP 8
AVE in L UNT 9 OPP 23

Wow, that's pretty tough to give up only 23 points nearly every time you lose. And look at the difference in our offense back then...10 points in losses. As '03 said,.. That '02 offense really put our defense behind the 8 ball a lot of times. But as I recall in the Texas game, Jamel Branch two or three times tried to bring the ball out of the back of the endzone, then fumbled inside our 25 when he fielded it in front of the endzone. We handed Texas 21 easy points to start the game. All told, had we just been allowed to play our style without any hiccups that game ends up 6-0.

God,...could Brandon Kennedy bring it! Will we see another dominating D lineman like him ever again at North Texas?

Rick

Edited January 20, 2014 by FirefightnRick

PlummMeanGreen · January 20, 2014

It is. I for one would never argue that it wasn't. And of your looking for a unifier season, it may go down as THE greatest year that brings the most people into the Mean Green Nation fold.
Rick

Are we all just not counting a team many of us were not fortunate to see due to our either not being around this area at the time, being too young or not even born and that being the North Texas Mean Green football era of Mean Joe Greene, Cedric Hardman, Steve Ramsey, Chuck Beatty, Ron Shanklin, etc, etc, etc and our football program that produced 3 NFL #1 draft choices over a 4 year period along with a whole host of other NFL draft choices, too?

I know most of these comparisons (including my own) has not counted that superb NCAA college football team at North Texas back in the mid 60's. I would have loved to have seen how close to the top or at the very top UNT's Mean Joe's teams would have finished in the old Southwest Conference.

Dandy Don Meredith commented on an old Monday Night Football broadcast how good that team in Denton had been and that he was glad that even his SMU teams never had to play North Texas.

Edited January 20, 2014 by PlummMeanGreen

Graddean · January 20, 2014

What about the '68 team with Steve Ramsey, Ron Shanklin, Joe Greene, Cedric Hardeman, and Chuck Beatty among others. They were 8-2' Zander robbed at Little Rock by a team that won the Sugar Bowl..

FirefightnRick · January 20, 2014

Are we all just not counting a team many of us were not fortunate to see due to our either not being around tjos area at the time?

Probably.

Rick

greenminer · January 20, 2014

God,...could Brandon Kennedy bring it! Will we see another dominating D lineman like him ever again at North Texas?
Rick

It's fun to watch the old videos, right?

"You either have to double team him, or hold him. And those are probably not going to work either."

I remember one time he broke through LaMos line and chased Steven Jiles from sideline to sideline. I couldn't believe the agility of that booger. One thing that always struck me is, even at about 300 lbs, he got up seemingly after every play and hopped back to the huddle like he was stretching to do 20 laps.

EDIT: He also always pointed to the sideline....does anyone have any interesting info on that? Was there a specific person he was crediting for every play, like DeLoach?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsEr094-SN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDLvYGiEerU

Edited January 20, 2014 by greenminer

CMJ · January 20, 2014

The thing yall also forgot to mention about the 2002 Arizona game. The Wildcats blocked two of our Field goals AND RETURNED THEM FOR TOUCHDOWNS. They could not do anything on offense...that was how they scored.

meangreener · January 20, 2014

FWIW

2013:

AVE SCORE UNT 32 OPP 18
AVE in W UNT 38 OPP 13
AVE in L UNT 19 OPP 29

2002:

AVE SCORE UNT 18 OPP 14
AVE in W UNT 25 OPP 8
AVE in L UNT 9 OPP 23

Offenses now and then are incredibly different. Naive to think differently.

CMJ · January 20, 2014

The thing yall also forgot to mention about the 2002 Arizona game. The Wildcats blocked two of our Field goals AND RETURNED THEM FOR TOUCHDOWNS. They could not do anything on offense...that was how they scored.

I just looked it up and was mistaken (I swear they did it twice...oh well...guess I am getting old). Arizona only returned one for a score. They got their other TD after Andrew Smith fumbled on our own 20 yard line. So, their offense did actually punch one in on a short field. For the most part it was a defensive slug fest. We moved the ball better but could not punch it in.

That was one of the more frustrating walks out of a stadium I ever had. I remember several AZ fans stopping me on the way out, telling me that we deserved to win.

emmitt01 · January 20, 2014

Offenses now and then are incredibly different. Naive to think differently.

More or less naive than insisting you're right in the face of multiple people who saw BOTH defenses telling you otherwise?

CMJ · January 20, 2014

More or less naive than insisting you're right in the face of multiple people who saw BOTH defenses telling you otherwise?

In about 15 years, he'll be debating with a college kid about the merits of the '13 defense against the 2028 one. It happens to all of us to one degree or another.

What's the Mark Twain quote? Something like - When I was 18 my dad was an idiot...when I was 25 I couldn't believe how much he'd learned in seven years.

Huff · January 20, 2014

Guys I know it was a LONG time ago but let's not forget the 1959 team. That was the Senior season for Abner Haynes and that group. They went 9-1 in the regular season before losing to New Mexico State in the Sun Bowl. Most folks remember the outstanding offense but the team gave up 7 points or less in eight of their ten regular season games. They finished ranked in the top twenty in the nation.

FirefightnRick · January 20, 2014

Guys I know it was a LONG time ago but let's not forget the 1959 team. That was the Senior season for Abner Haynes and that group. They went 9-1 in the regular season before losing to New Mexico State in the Sun Bowl. Most folks remember the outstanding offense but the team gave up 7 points or less in eight of their ten regular season games. They finished ranked in the top twenty in the nation.

There you go. Incredible! Wished there was some video of that season.

Rick

GrandGreen · January 20, 2014

Wow, old history, but none of those teams were close to the talent of the 67-69 teams. Three first round draft choices and a bunch of other drafted.

I know there are not a lot of you around in those days, but Greene, Hardman and crew would have destroyed last year's offense. Shanklan, Hollaway, Ramsey and Parker would have done the same to the defense.

Many lament the 1988 UT game, but NT had a game stolen by a much better Arkansas in that period. They did lose some to lesser teams, but motivated; I don't think any NT team since could play with them.

UNTcrazy727 · January 20, 2014

The 2002 defense may have been better, but the 2013 team was better overall.

Green P1 · January 20, 2014

No one from this years defense would have touched the field in 02 outside of Orr and Buyers.

FirefightnRick · January 20, 2014

Wow, old history, but none of those teams were close to the talent of the 67-69 teams. Three first round draft choices and a bunch of other drafted.

I know there are not a lot of you around in those days, but Greene, Hardman and crew would have destroyed last year's offense. Shanklan, Hollaway, Ramsey and Parker would have done the same to the defense.

Many lament the 1988 UT game, but NT had a game stolen by a much better Arkansas in that period. They did lose some to lesser teams, but motivated; I don't think any NT team since could play with them.

More valid points. Its certainly hard to argue against an era that had three first round draft choices in a five year period.

Rick

SilverEagle · January 20, 2014

Wow, old history, but none of those teams were close to the talent of the 67-69 teams. Three first round draft choices and a bunch of other drafted.

I know there are not a lot of you around in those days, but Greene, Hardman and crew would have destroyed last year's offense. Shanklan, Hollaway, Ramsey and Parker would have done the same to the defense.

Many lament the 1988 UT game, but NT had a game stolen by a much better Arkansas in that period. They did lose some to lesser teams, but motivated; I don't think any NT team since could play with them.

Now there is an interesting concept. In addition to asking "which team was the best in NT history", how about coaching staffs? How would our current coaching staff have done with the 67-69 teams?. For instance, the 67 team. Could our current coaching staff have made the difference in a 7-1-1 season? Our only loss was to Memphis....by 9 points.

Or how about the team, and defense, that inspired our nickname? In 66 our only losses were a three point loss to Tulsa and a four point loss to Drake. What kind of difference would our current coaching staff have made that year?

gruu · January 20, 2014

Date Home Team Score Visit Team Record Location Notes A.P. Poll

Sat, 9/3/1988 Texas Tech 24 - 29 (W) North Texas 1-0

Sat, 9/17/1988 North Texas 49 - 21 (W) Arkansas St. 2-0 Denton, TX

Sat, 9/24/1988 Texas 27 - 24 (L) North Texas 2-1

Sat, 10/1/1988 North Texas 51 - 0 (W) Eastern Washington 3-1

Sat, 10/8/1988 North Texas 26 - 23 (W) Louisiana-Monroe 4-1 Denton, TX

Sat, 10/15/1988 North Texas 37 - 0 (W) McNeese State 5-1

Sat, 10/22/1988 Sam Houston State 3 - 24 (W) North Texas 6-1

Sat, 10/29/1988 Stephen F. Austin State 17 - 10 (L) North Texas 6-2

Sat, 11/5/1988 North Texas 17 - 25 (L) Northwestern State (LA) 6-3

Sat, 11/12/1988 Texas State 10 - 30 (W) North Texas 7-3

Sat, 11/19/1988 Rice 17 - 33 (W) North Texas 8-3

Sat, 11/26/1988 Marshall 7 - 0 (L) North Texas 8-4 Huntington, WV Division I-AA 1st Round Playoff Game

This team was special.

UNT90 · January 20, 2014

It's because you were a toddler then.

Then?

;-)

UNT90 · January 20, 2014

Is it hard to dismiss a D that sacked Texas QB 8 times, shut them out for a half.

Stop.

Just stop.

We lost that friggin game by 22 POINTS!!

22!!!

This game should never be cited in any argument for being good, much less great.

It just shows how bad and for how long things have been around this football program. A 22 point loss isn't even a freakinn moral victory, much less the lead in statement for why a team should be on a "greatest teams" list.

For the record, I don't think any of Dickey's teams should be on this list. There was never a signature OOC win (Baylor was like beating Indiana at the time) and the conference we played in was beyond bad.