Was this the best NT team ever?

[UNT86]

My choices for the best 5 NT Teams Last 100 years

1. 1947 (10-2)
   1. Salad Bowl loss to Nevada
   2. Held every opponent to 13 or less and 9 of them to 7 or less
   3. Beat Florida and Houston
2. 2013 (9-4)
   1. HOD Bowl Champions over UNLV
   2. Only NT team to beat two 10 win teams (Ball State and Rice)
3. 1977 (10-1)
   1. Beat SMU and 9 win Louisiana Tech to close the season
4. 1978 (9-2)
   1. Beat Oklahoma St, La. Tech, Southern Miss, and Memphis
5. 1946 (7-3-1)
   1. Optimist Bowl Champions over Pacific
   2. Held 8 opponents to 7 points or less
   3. Win over Houston

I did not include any of the New Orleans Bowl teams since they only won 4 out of conference games during that span, and none were over a team with a winning record (Baylor, Nichols, Troy, and Cincinnatti)

[Green P1]

02. Leaving them out is just straight up silly.

[UNT90]

1977 and 1978 need to be higher on your list. Like #1 and #2.

And a mere 4 years later, we drop to 1AA.

Infuriating.

Edited January 20, 2014 by UNT90

[UNT 90 Grad]

02. Leaving them out is just straight up silly.

Which of the teams listed do they beat out and why?

[PlummMeanGreen]

Why leave out 1975 for heavens sake?

The 1975 season seemed to do more to put North Texas on the national map in that era than any others that I can recall. Beating a 6 & 5 SEC team that Fall with our 3'rd string QB would be toward the top of the list of that 1975 season and had we had all the bowl games back then that we have today.............well, you know the rest of that story. (We also beat the University of Houston Cougars 28 to 0 that same Fall, too).

Still....sorta' hard to compare teams from different eras.

This 2014 HOD Bowl winning team and our enourmous fan support at the historic Cotton Bowl stadium this past New Years Day created more pride within me as a UNT alum and Mean Green fan as most any other thing thats happened in North Texas football during my past 40 years of this. Good days are ahead for us all! Thanks Coach Mac, his assistants and the mighty Mean Green football team for all that!

GMG!

Edited January 20, 2014 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT86]

I left the 2002 team out of the top 5 because they didn't beat anyone outside of the conference until the bowl win. Even that win was over a 7-7 team. They also lost to a 4-8 Arizona team and lost 5 of 6 to start the year. I had them as our #7 team overall.

The '75 team was 7-4, but did have wins over Tennessee and Houston. That Houston win looked better when they won the SWC the next year, but that Houston team went 2-8.

I placed all three of those Fry teams ('75, '77, '78) slightly lower without bowl scalps. Today, at least two of those teams would have gone to a bowl.

I thought the '56 team was worthy of consideration, but I didn't include them because so many of their wins were over non-IA teams.

[FirefightnRick]

I left the 2002 team out of the top 5 because they didn't beat anyone outside of the conference until the bowl win. Even that win was over a 7-7 team. They also lost to a 4-8 Arizona team and lost 5 of 6 to start the year. I had them as our #7 team overall.

The '75 team was 7-4, but did have wins over Tennessee and Houston. That Houston win looked better when they won the SWC the next year, but that Houston team went 2-8.

I placed all three of those Fry teams ('75, '77, '78) slightly lower without bowl scalps. Today, at least two of those teams would have gone to a bowl.

I thought the '56 team was worthy of consideration, but I didn't include them because so many of their wins were over non-IA teams.

That '02 team had possibly our best defense ever. And the Cincy team they beat in the bowl was C-USA co-champs, and played the eventual national champion (Ohio St) down to the wire the first or second game of the season that year. But if your gonna gauge their wins and the '75 team wins over supposedly poor teams, then you gotta give the same considerations to the '13 teams wins over poor teams also....UTEP, S Miss, Tulsa, La Tech.

Edit: That Arizona loss was on the road and Cobbs scored at the goal line that should have given us the win, but the refs said he didn't cross the line. Replay, had we had it then, would have showed he did.

Rick

Edited January 20, 2014 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

By the way, not sure where I would rank them, but despite being 1-AA, I'd put our '86 and '88 teams up against any team we have ever fielded.

Rick

[UNT86]

Crap like that in Arizona and at Texas in '88 is why I don't care if we play either one of them anymore. If Texas wants to play us, they need to come to Denton and we get to use the refs of our own choosing.

And, the team this year beat two 10 win teams. In our entire history, I can only find one other with over a 10 win team (Boise St in 2000) The '75 team only beat one team with a winning record, although beating Tennesse was maybe our biggest win ever.

[meangreener]

That '02 team had possibly our best defense ever. And the Cincy team they beat in the bowl was C-USA co-champs, and played the eventual national champion (Ohio St) down to the wire the first or second game of the season that year. But if your gonna gauge their wins and the '75 team wins over supposedly poor teams, then you gotta give the same considerations to the '13 teams wins over poor teams also....UTEP, S Miss, Tulsa, La Tech.

Edit: That Arizona loss was on the road and Cobbs scored at the goal line that should have given us the win, but the refs said he didn't cross the line. Replay, had we had it then, would have showed he did.

Rick

No way the 2002 defense was better than this years. Our second half defense was unbelievable.

Also, the '13 team had wins against very good teams too, such as Rice, Ball State and MTSU. Works both ways. Two ten win teams.

I think this was the best team ever fielded at NT. Statistically it is. Our end of the season ranking was as high as we've been since the 70s.

Sorry to the DD groupies. Just the facts.

Edited January 20, 2014 by meangreener

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

No way the 2002 defense was better than this years. Our second half defense was unbelievable.

Also, the '13 team had wins against very good teams too, such as Rice, Ball State and MTSU. Works both ways. Two ten win teams.

I think this was the best team ever fielded at NT. Statistically it is. Our end of the season ranking was as high as we've been since the 70s.

Sorry to the DD groupies. Just the facts.

I know there is bias because we were students when it happened this year, but the late 70s teams were the last time we've been ranked and produced many NFL draft players. Also during a time when college football was probably more popular than the NFL. It's hard to rank teams in different decades because there's always different caliber of talent in any given era. But "statistically" I'll go with the late 70s having a slight edge.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

Also the 2002 team got 2 coaches poll + an AP poll vote, so slightly more than we got this year.

[MeanMag]

No way the 2002 defense was better than this years. Our second half defense was unbelievable.

Also, the '13 team had wins against very good teams too, such as Rice, Ball State and MTSU. Works both ways. Two ten win teams.

I think this was the best team ever fielded at NT. Statistically it is. Our end of the season ranking was as high as we've been since the 70s.

Sorry to the DD groupies. Just the facts.

You haven't looked at the facts then. How many shutouts did we have this past year? How many points per game did we surrender?

This past year was good. One of the best ever at the school, and one I will remember for a long time.

As dominating as this defense was this season in the 2nd half, the 2002 defense was more dominating for the entire games.

Edited January 20, 2014 by MeanMag

[meangreener]

I know there is bias because we were students when it happened this year, but the late 70s teams were the last time we've been ranked and produced many NFL draft players. Also during a time when college football was probably more popular than the NFL. It's hard to rank teams in different decades because there's always different caliber of talent in any given era. But "statistically" I'll go with the late 70s having a slight edge.

Fair enough, I agree, tbh, I guess technically the 70s teams were better...albeit Mac currently has a better record over three years here than Fry did. I think at the very least the 70s teams and this team are deserving of this consideration of being the "best" UNT teams.

[meangreener]

You haven't looked at the facts then. How many shutouts did we have this past year? How many points per game did we surrender?

This past year was good. One of the best ever at the school, and one I will remember for a long time.

As dominating as this defense was this season in the 2nd half, the 2002 defense was more dominating for the entire games.

We surrendered around 16 points per game this year and 14 then. But college football average scoring is about 14 points higher now than then. So it's very deceptive. We had more turnovers on average, as well, and performed better against better teams. The 2002 defense performed admirably against Sun belt schools.

For whatever reason, I just have little respect for the DD-era teams. Kinda hard to when you routinely lose every OOC game.

Edited January 20, 2014 by meangreener

[meangreener]

Also the 2002 team got 2 coaches poll + an AP poll vote, so slightly more than we got this year.

Finished the year in most polls ranked anywhere from 50-75 though. We averaged about 40-50 on end of the year polls, as high as 33.

[emmitt01]

We surrendered around 16 points per game this year and 14 then. But college football average scoring is about 14 points higher now than then. So it's very deceptive. We had more turnovers on average, as well, and performed better against better teams. The 2002 defense performed admirably against Sun belt schools.

For whatever reason, I just have little respect for the DD-era teams. Kinda hard to when you routinely lose every OOC game.

It's because you were a toddler then.

ANYONE who has followed this program for more than a decade will tell you that the front seven from '02 would have started this past season (with the possible exception of Orr staying put).

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

We surrendered around 16 points per game this year and 14 then. But college football average scoring is about 14 points higher now than then. So it's very deceptive. We had more turnovers on average, as well, and performed better against better teams. The 2002 defense performed admirably against Sun belt schools.

For whatever reason, I just have little respect for the DD-era teams. Kinda hard to when you routinely lose every OOC game.

Admittedly,I can't say I can picture the 2002 season being as exciting as this year. I know I wasn't there but it just seems like beating in state conference teams and winning a bowl game in Dallas is one of the greatest achievement for any North Texas team.

[meangreener]

It's because you were a toddler then.

ANYONE who has followed this program for more than a decade will tell you that the front seven from '02 would have started this past season (with the possible exception of Orr staying put).

I was 10. Toddler is usually used in regards to 3-5 year olds.

[greenminer]

We surrendered around 16 points per game this year and 14 then. But college football average scoring is about 14 points higher now than then. So it's very deceptive. We had more turnovers on average, as well, and performed better against better teams. The 2002 defense performed admirably against Sun belt schools.

For whatever reason, I just have little respect for the DD-era teams. Kinda hard to when you routinely lose every OOC game.

Is it hard to dismiss a D that sacked Texas QB 8 times, shut them out for a half, intercepted Cinci 5 times, and had multiple Conference Defensive POY on the roster?

You seem so quick to dismiss that team because of their overall OOC record, that you're dismissing some very notable facts.

I'm revisiting that 2002 schedule and having a hard time seeing how much different the 2013 team would fare. 2013 probably wins at Arizona and TCU, but that 2002 was a wrong call and single possession (I think FFR? Do you remember the TCU details?) away from winning both. But you don't care because you're just looking at W-L.

We had a couple of LBs from that era that were drafted and/or had decent NFL careers. Brad Kassell, for sure, was one but he graduated after 2001. Cobbs was also NFL. Is there any single guy on the 2013 team that you can single out and confidently say they will match their pro careers?

DD was f'n terrible in OOC (I was so sick of it!) but, you have to admit, he faced some brutal opponents and had the worst of luck seemingly every year with officials and such.

[MeanMag]

We surrendered around 16 points per game this year and 14 then. But college football average scoring is about 14 points higher now than then. So it's very deceptive. We had more turnovers on average, as well, and performed better against better teams. The 2002 defense performed admirably against Sun belt schools.

For whatever reason, I just have little respect for the DD-era teams. Kinda hard to when you routinely lose every OOC game.

I suppose offenses are different, and I haven't seen the 14 point difference.

I have the utmost respect for the DD-era teams. Chris Hurd, Cody Spencer, Kennedy, Jonas Buckles etc. I'm leaving out another NFL D lineman that played for the Giants and got kicked off the team near the SuperBowl. Forget his name. The reason I would have little respect for DD is the end of his tenure was just despicable, so that might affect your feelings. As far as pure dominance tho, our Defense from front to back was better, but our offense was for sure less productive through the air.

Our OOC now is a little more winnable than it was back then, but we did have some baffling losses to transitional teams joining our conference. It's funny because that's what UTSA is as well...

[NT03]

That 02 offense constantly put our D behind the 8 ball

[meangreener]

Is it hard to dismiss a D that sacked Texas QB 8 times, shut them out for a half, intercepted Cinci 5 times, and had multiple Conference Defensive POY on the roster?

You seem so quick to dismiss that team because of their overall OOC record, that you're dismissing some very notable facts.

I'm revisiting that 2002 schedule and having a hard time seeing how much different the 2013 team would fare. 2013 probably wins at Arizona and TCU, but that 2002 was a wrong call and single possession (I think FFR? Do you remember the TCU details?) away from winning both. But you don't care because you're just looking at W-L.

We had a couple of LBs from that era that were drafted and/or had decent NFL careers. Brad Kassell, for sure, was one but he graduated after 2001. Cobbs was also NFL. Is there any single guy on the 2013 team that you can single out and confidently say they will match their pro careers?

DD was f'n terrible in OOC (I was so sick of it!) but, you have to admit, he faced some brutal opponents and had the worst of luck seemingly every year with officials and such.

Brelan Chancellor and Zach Orr will both have huge NFL careers.

[emmitt01]

I suppose offenses are different, and I haven't seen the 14 point difference.

I have the utmost respect for the DD-era teams. Chris Hurd, Cody Spencer, Kennedy, Jonas Buckles etc. I'm leaving out another NFL D lineman that played for the Giants and got kicked off the team near the SuperBowl. Forget his name. The reason I would have little respect for DD is the end of his tenure was just despicable, so that might affect your feelings. As far as pure dominance tho, our Defense from front to back was better, but our offense was for sure less productive through the air.

Our OOC now is a little more winnable than it was back then, but we did have some baffling losses to transitional teams joining our conference. It's funny because that's what UTSA is as well...

Adrian Awasom. If he were on this upcoming year's team we wouldn't be sweating Xavier Washington's signing.

[greenminer]

Emmit's right, I've seen both front sevens: the 2002 was havoc on opponents.

I am the biggest homer for Buckles and Jones and Crew, but I can give the nod for 2013 secondary because of their tackling/footwork. 2002 secondary, to me, was more athletic and ball hawking.