Question for 1970s and prior alums

[Cr1028]

I was wearing my UNT gear out in public and a gentlemen stopped me and said that was his school. We got to talking and I found out he grad in '79. I talked about how I went to the bowl game and we won. He knew about it but didn't seem like he had gone. He told me he was there during the Hayden Fry years and that Fry spent a bunch of money trying to get us in the Southwest Conference and when he left for Iowa our program had very little money left and the program was down many years afterward because of this.

Is there any substance to this? Thanks.

[UNTLifer]

I am not that old, but Fry worked with my Dad. I don't think we had much for Fry to spend in the first place, but that is a good story and a way to shift blame to Fry and away from the cheap administration.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Those who can...do; those who cannot and could not..... blamed Fry.

UNTLifer pretty well said it all.

GMG!

[Huff]

Hayden made a lot of changes. Most of them were for the better. There is no question that he became very frustrated with our inability to get into a better conference or to get to a bowl game. I'm sure those were some of the reasons for his departure to Iowa. Plus, Iowa was a much better job. To say that he left the program broke - without money or quality players - would certainly not be true.

[GrayEagle]

Definitely not. Hayden's "big Southwest Conference expenses" were some phone calls, and maybe a few lunches on visits to UT and likewise for Dewitt Weaver in feeling out Tech. He did have some heavy expenses trying to see if it was feasible to expand Fouts to Southwest Conference standards. But, he raised most of the extra funds that he spent himself. He had some antagonists on the faculty and the BOR but an excellent friend in North Texas President Jitter Nolen. Hayden simply left for a better job and left the program in better shape than he found it. It was the stadium issue and the tightfisted administration that sent us to 1-AA and that is where we lost a lot of our old alumni.

[greenjoe]

Spent a lot mof money on what ? I agree. Perhaps a bunch of phone calls and maybe a visit or two.

I am not the fan of hayden Fry that many on this board are. I think he did his job while he was here. He did a good job and the public bought in to what he was doing. However, his first allegience was to himself. And when a better opportunity came along, as most college coaches, he took the better job. Fry was at North Texas for fewer years than any of his other head coaching jobs.

The SWC possibility was wishful thinking on the part of Mean Green fans. And since Fry came from a SWC school, many of us thought he had an inside track to SWC membership. Looking back with a more mature eye, it was never to be.

And by the way, Coach MaC has a better record through 3 seasons than Fry.

Beat Texas

GO MEAN GREEN

Edited January 19, 2014 by greenjoe

[SilverEagle]

I'm going to bring up the "C" word again.....culture. Around the time that Hayden Fry was hired, a serious culture change was needed at North Texas.

Hayden Fry was hired by President C.C. "Jitter" Nolan. "Jitter" Nolan was hired to be President in spite of the fact that he didn't even have a masters, much less a PhD. So why was he hired? Well, someone in the position of hiring must have finally awakened to the fact that North Texas needed to do some serious fund raising....and fast. Because "fund raising" was non-exsistant before Mr. Nolan was hired. In fact the previous President, Dr. Matthews, actively discouraged it (Dallas Green might want to chime in on this) . I was told by more than one person that "Jitter" Nolan (who was at TCU before being hired) was hired for his "perceived" connections and his abilities to fund raise....period.

Not long after Mr. Nolan became President, Rod Rust was fired and Hayden Fry was available to be hired. NT basically couldn't afford Fry, so Mr. Nolan got creative and paid him two salaries. Since he was both Head Coach and Athletic Director, he was paid both salaries.

After Hayden Fry was hired, he immediately assessed that what North Texas needed was a "culture change". He went about doing just that by changing the logos, changing the shade of green, and emphasizing "Mean Green" over "Eagles". But he NEVER got rid of our mascot, he just changed (with the help of Rick Spears) it's image. He then went about doing for the athletic department what Mr.Nolan was hired to do for the University.....fund raise. Something that had NEVER been done previously...and as stated previously it had in fact been actively discouraged. In his first year, Hayden raised over 200K, which is phenomenal considering that fund raising was non-exsistant before he arrived.

So when Hayden got tired of fighting the uphill battle of dealing with our public negative perception, plus all the Dr. Matthews minions still in the administration, he took a job that was less stressful. Taking Iowa to the Rose Bowl for the first time in over 25 years and breaking the stranglehold of Ohio St in the big 10.

Not long after Hayden Fry left, Mr. Nolan was ganged up on by the aforementioned Dr. Matthews minions and basically run out of town.

And when they regained power they provided their own revisionist history of that era. And shortly after that we back-slid into 1-AA sports.

[drex]

It was the disasterous hiring of Bob Tyler to replace Jerry Moore (who was a questionable hire and played .500 ball) that sent the athletic department into the serious red area. Hayden played a lot of 'body bag' games to raise revenue for football, plus did some serious fund raising...he should never be accused of getting the program into the red. By the way, Hayden won some of those 'body bag' games. Hayden was a promoter and self promoter, that is true. Every coach is a self promoter, but not many are promoters.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I will add that Coach Fry was our coach while I was a student so his legacy means much to those of us who were UNT students when he was at UNT than perhaps most? Throw in a little nostalgia in the mix, too?

Best I recollect even in his short 6 years stay in Denton he is still the last coach who left our school with over .500 in wins and among them some impressive ones. I'd rather had that than someone who wore out his welcome at UNT and left town well below .500 in career wins and no national or significant eye-popping wins......wouldn't you?

If Coach Mac were younger and in tip top health, how many of you think we'd have him for 6 years based on what many of us feel he will being doing at UNT based on 3? Even based on his 3'rd year at UNT and the HOD Bowl game results many of us would tell you his light would shine brightly for those in larger P5 conferences looking for a new HFC today. (Ark. State with 3 HFC's the last 3 years----caca like that happens--ya' know)?. I think Coach DMac staying in Denton would be a win-win for both parties and I've heard many of you say the same. I hope he feels that way, too! LOL!

Still............being age 60 today is not like it was 25 or so years today, either; in other words, with most in our society it is still young. Heck, how old was Woody Hays when he retired at Ohio State? How old was Bear Bryant when he hung em' up at Alabama?

Glad we had Fry when we did but have said a few times we had him about 20-25 years too early and Pre-A.S. (pre Apogee Stadium).

Why 20-25 years too early? Well, here were the constituency numbers when Fry was at UNT as compared to today. Fry didn't have nowhere close to the numbers to get a much larger bandwagon effect in place as we do today.

_______________________________________________

Fry Era UNT Constituency Numbers:

Denton.......................39,000 pop.

Denton County..........99,000 pop.

UNT alumnus numbers? Nobody around Denton flat out had any idea how many we had in the early 70's.

They didn't have very good records (or maybe even no records at all) of past alums because of what some of you have told me was former North Texas President J.C. Matthews attitude toward alums and that as mostly an era when we were a teacher's college. Not a bad thing being a teachers college BTW....weren't some of all our favorite people on this earth.....some of our teachers?

Yet President Matthews didn't want alums or their influences around after they graduated is what I've heard from some of you. So in essence, Hayden Fry started with that kind of an "un-organized" alumnus base in Denton and beyond.

Today's UNT Constituency Numbers

Denton..................120,000 pop (and expected to be much larger next 10 plus years)

Denton County......Approx. 800,000 (ditto to above)

UNT Alums............One UNT publication says 225,000 North Texas exes in northern Texas alone. Didn't we see so many of that group for the first time ever at the HoD Bowl game, too?

Fry took a Big 10 Iowa U job he'd been crazy to have not taken considering our Denton and UNT culture of that day along with a much, much smaller constituency, too.

I hope Coach Fry's health is OK because we haven't been hearing much about him of late when we probably should have around the time of the Heart of Dallas Bowl game. Anyone know?

Edited January 19, 2014 by PlummMeanGreen

[SilverEagle]

It was the disasterous hiring of Bob Tyler to replace Jerry Moore (who was a questionable hire and played .500 ball) that sent the athletic department into the serious red area. Hayden played a lot of 'body bag' games to raise revenue for football, plus did some serious fund raising...he should never be accused of getting the program into the red. By the way, Hayden won some of those 'body bag' games. Hayden was a promoter and self promoter, that is true. Every coach is a self promoter, but not many are promoters.

I remember that just about every game that season (81) was carried on a local station (either 21 or 27). Did NT basically underwrite those games rather than get enough sponsors to cover the costs?

[PlummMeanGreen]

I remember that just about every game that season (81) was carried on a local station (either 21 or 27). Did NT basically underwrite those games rather than get enough sponsors to cover the costs?

Bill, lets get FFR and have a McD's Mean Green coffee club meeting over here in Hudson Oaks and I will tell you some funny stories about that whole season; along with Mike Robinson who UNT hired to promote all 4 of those Cotton Bowl stadium games in '81. I think my worst ever year as a Mean Green fan was that 1981 season. I can't think of any others that would top it....can you?

GMG!

[drycreek]

I was wearing my UNT gear out in public and a gentlemen stopped me and said that was his school. We got to talking and I found out he grad in '79. I talked about how I went to the bowl game and we won. He knew about it but didn't seem like he had gone. He told me he was there during the Hayden Fry years and that Fry spent a bunch of money trying to get us in the Southwest Conference and when he left for Iowa our program had very little money left and the program was down many years afterward because of this.

Is there any substance to this? Thanks.

baylor---i am told kept us out of the swc---they would not support our membership---

[ttunt]

The PRIVATES(Baylor, TCU, SMU & Rice) kept us out of SWC. The only thing Hayden did wrong was not leaving all

sports but football in the MVC. That set those programs back(kept the Blakeley's top 20 basketball teams out of NCAA or

NIT), but I did like the changes he made in the culture. Hayden did not leave us in the lurch money wise as old heads

was very jealous.

[drex]

Yes, as I remember, NT spent their own money to get on TV....Rex Cauble, local banker, also put quite a bit in the pot.

[foutsrouts]

.Rex Cauble, local banker, also put quite a bit in the pot.

In more ways than one.

[drex]

I'm glad you got the reference.

[Cr1028]

Thanks for the responses guys. His was a perspective I hadn't heard before so I had to check. I don't know if race played a role in perceptions back then but he was a black gentleman if that means anything to the conversation.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Had many years to think about this, but I'm not sure we really ever had chance to get in the late, great SWC. Granted, UT's Darrell Royal supported his friend Hayden Fy, but it would take more than even the late DKR to pull this one off.

One of many reasons Frank Broyles took his Arkansas Razorbacks program out of the SWC is because he said there were too many Texas schools in the conference and that the SWC private schools (who were said to have black-balled us) were not towing their part of the rope at the turnstiles. Looking at that pic of a near empty Amon Carter Stadium during the Foggies Big 12 Kansas game this last Fall maybe some still have not completely solved that problem?

Give North Texas 10K to 15K traveling Big 12 fans on Apogee Game Days and I'd like our chances to be successful at the turnstiles. Add such numbers as those to the 35K Mean Green fans who came from everywhere for the HoD Bowl game and we'd really need to do some serious stadium expansion talk.

GMG!

Edited January 19, 2014 by PlummMeanGreen

[ragpicker]

It was the disasterous hiring of Bob Tyler to replace Jerry Moore (who was a questionable hire and played .500 ball) that sent the athletic department into the serious red area. Hayden played a lot of 'body bag' games to raise revenue for football, plus did some serious fund raising...he should never be accused of getting the program into the red. By the way, Hayden won some of those 'body bag' games. Hayden was a promoter and self promoter, that is true. Every coach is a self promoter, but not many are promoters.

I agree. Bob Tyler just about did us in and came very close to sending us the way of UTA.

[VideoEagle]

I agree. Bob Tyler just about did us in and came very close to sending us the way of UTA.

When people call Todd Dodge our worst coach don't remember Bob Tyler. Tyler managed to get the NCAA sniffing around for violations while running the team into the ditch.

[SilverEagle]

When people call Todd Dodge our worst coach don't remember Bob Tyler. Tyler managed to get the NCAA sniffing around for violations while running the team into the ditch.

Don't forget that he had already done almost the same thing at Mss St,, which is why we got a forfeit win on our 77 schedule.. And our administration STILL hired him to be our HC.

[greenjoe]

Do you remember Bob Tyler ? He came to Denton with his Brooks Brothers suit and shiny shoes and everyone nearly fell over. Here was a former SEC coach, almost in the shadow of Hayden Fry, looking good and promising more good things. We probably ween't what he expected either.

I don't have any insights as to what happened, but he was only here one season. 5-7 ?

Beat Texas

GO MEAN GREEN

[SilverEagle]

Do you remember Bob Tyler ? He came to Denton with his Brooks Brothers suit and shiny shoes and everyone nearly fell over. Here was a former SEC coach, almost in the shadow of Hayden Fry, looking good and promising more good things. We probably ween't what he expected either.

I don't have any insights as to what happened, but he was only here one season. 5-7 ?

Beat Texas

GO MEAN GREEN

We absolutely weren't what he expected. I remember after either the Ok St. or UTA game there was some sort of C&W review after the game. When someone told Coach Tyler about the meager attendance he said "sounds like another NT football game broke out over there". He then went on to muse..."North Texas is an outstanding institution of higher learning, they have the largest alumni base in the metroplex, and they have the best college band in the northern hemisphere... I don't understand why the students and alumni don't come out for football games!".

And if I could go back to that day I would say "because traditionally our administration has treated our sports programs much like they were intramural sports. And up untill recently they actively discouraged monetary donations to the program. Plus our administration is so clueless about hiring that they hired a crook like you!"

BTW, when Bob Tyler applied for the job, one of the other candidates was Corky Nelson.

[GrayEagle]

Baylor did not oppose our being in the Southwest Conference and had it ever come to a vote would have likely voted for us. Remember, Baylor was Hayden's alma mater and still had good relations with them.

The biggest killer was not the private schools. It was Arkansas. It wasn't that Frank Broyles was against us personally. It was that we were a Texas university and they were the only outsider.

If the SWC had ever come off it would have been due to arm-twisting by DKR. In my opinion, the reason that it didn't get any farther faster was due to the number of teams. The Southwest Conference liked having nine teams because everyone played each other every year. It was also the lion's share of public dissent. There was little on record about the feelings of any of the members regarding their stance. Had the Big 8 not viewed forming a super conference, who knows what or how long it might have taken for change to occur.

[ragpicker]

In more ways than one.

Funny, foutroutes, Is he still in jail, or dead?