Hoops thoughts (UNT swept again)

Harry · January 12, 2014

The first weekend of Conference USA play is in the books and UNT is still looking for its first win.

The UNT men fell at home to Tulane 73-62, while the UNT women saw their comeback attempt come up just short at Charlotte in a 61-59 loss.

Both of UNTs teams are 0-2 in league play.

The UNT men are in a worse spot. The Mean Green played their first two games at home, including their showdown with Tulane, a game that looked like UNT might have a shot at.

Tulsa waxed Tulane 97-71 earlier in the week.

Read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2014/01/hoops-thoughts-unt-swept-again.html/

BillySee58 · January 12, 2014

Yeah, a big man with a foot injury is a dangerous proposition. We could really use an effective Gaines on this team. Obviously that's far from our only problem.

FirefightnRick · January 12, 2014

..."We have to figure that out as a coaching staff. I told each player they have to look in the mirror. We have to figure it out"...

So which is it? The players needing to look themselves in the mirror or the coaching staff needing to figure it out?

Who's coaching this team? A year and a half into it, for $390,000 a year, one would have thought these questions would be answered by now?

Pathetic!!!

Rick

Edited January 12, 2014 by FirefightnRick

Rudy · January 12, 2014

Maybe the coaching staff is trying to figure out how to tell each player to look in the mirror?

Mean Green Matt · January 12, 2014

I wholeheartedly hope that Benford has an epiphany and all of a sudden things are rosy again, but if they don't, and we win 2-4 conference games with a first round exit in the conference tournament, I'm very curious whether that will trigger his departure.

Green Dozer · January 12, 2014

I am blame it on people here in Denton for not attending games.

UNT90 · January 12, 2014

I am blame it on people here in Denton for not attending games.

I know that was tongue in cheek, but when you run off close to half of your season ticket base, you damn sure aren't going to lure anyone from Denton to watch the games.

Hell, I used to routinely make 70 mile round trips to watch UNT basketball. Those days are gone until UNT decides that it cares about basketball again.

emmitt01 · January 12, 2014

I wholeheartedly hope that Benford has an epiphany and all of a sudden things are rosy again, but if they don't, and we win 2-4 conference games with a first round exit in the conference tournament, I'm very curious whether that will trigger his departure.

Sorry, could you put that in terms of dollars and cents for me? It would greatly aid the decision making process.

MeanGreenTexan · January 12, 2014

Maybe the coaching staff is trying to figure out how to tell each player to look in the mirror?

I'm starting with the man in the mirror. Oh, yeah. I'm asking him to change his ways.

UNT90 · January 12, 2014

I'm starting with the man in the mirror. Oh, yeah. I'm asking him to change his ways.

Didn't work out too well for that guy, did it?

BIHP

Edited January 12, 2014 by UNT90

Cooley · January 12, 2014

So Peterson gets a pass?

BillySee58 · January 12, 2014

So Peterson gets a pass?

Yeah, that has not gone well at all but it's has been overshadowed because Benny inherited a much better situation that Pete. Not that Pete inherited a bad situation, but compared to the roster we has set going into last year in men's basketball. Well, you get it.

Mean Green Matt · January 12, 2014

So Peterson gets a pass?

I miss Karen Aston so much. I've never met or witnessed someone that abhorred losing quite as much as KA did. And she wasn't shy about that one bit. What's crappy is that she didn't like moving around much, even for money, but Texas was one of the few jobs she would have bolted for.

emmitt01 · January 13, 2014

I miss Karen Aston so much. I've never met or witnessed someone that abhorred losing quite as much as KA did. And she wasn't shy about that one bit. What's crappy is that she didn't like moving around much, even for money, but Texas was one of the few jobs she would have bolted for.

That's why she rented when she was in Denton

drex · January 13, 2014

After watching a couple of games and listening to others, I wonder if we have any wins in the future in men's basketball. Is it possible to go completely swept by C-USA basketball? Hope not.

Andrew · January 13, 2014

After watching a couple of games and listening to others, I wonder if we have any wins in the future in men's basketball. Is it possible to go completely swept by C-USA basketball? Hope not.

If we do not win a game we have some serious problems and should probably get rid of every player coach and anyone else who ever laid a hand on the basketball team haha.

untjim1995 · January 13, 2014

If we were to lose out the rest of the way, there's no way this place is paying off 3 more years of Benford's $390k contract. No way. After next year, its possible, about 50/50 at best. If we fired him then, buying out two years of the contract, the next coach isn't getting paid anywhere close to what Benford has gotten paid, simply because of budget.

Just remember, even with the humongous strides we have made in supporting athletics over the last decade, as compared to our history before that, one thing we have never done is to buyout more than two years of a coach's contract in a revenue sport. We have brought back Vic Trilli for a 4th (out of 5 years) year after a disaster that is worse than Benford's short tenure, which got a 4-22 record for his last year. We did the same thing with Todd Dodge in football, which got him a 4th (out of 5 years), and he responded by winning one more game before getting canned in mid-season.

We can all hate it--and we all do--but Benford will be here again next season, and probably the year after. When you are 100% completely serious about athletic funding, you build the best facilities (or remodel) them, you hire and pay for good coaching and ADs, and then when the leadership proves to be failing, you make changes--NO MATTER HOW COSTLY THEY ARE!! Western Kentucky--not Kentucky, mind you--gets this. Southern Miss--not Mississippi State--gets this. But those schools have seen what athletic success has meant for their entire university and town. Here in Denton, we haven't seen that fully yet. With football's first taste of legitimate success as a FBS program in 10 years or more, maybe that success will get felt at a huge level in Denton and on campus, enough to cause bigger changes. But, until that happens, basketball costs money...and we are always about value first. Just look at what we promote as a university and you get the idea very quickly.

Edited January 13, 2014 by untjim1995

UNT90 · January 13, 2014

If we were to lose out the rest of the way, there's no way this place is paying off 3 more years of Benford's $390k contract. No way. After next year, its possible, about 50/50 at best. If we fired him then, buying out two years of the contract, the next coach isn't getting paid anywhere close to what Benford has gotten paid, simply because of budget.

Just remember, even with the humongous strides we have made in supporting athletics over the last decade, as compared to our history before that, one thing we have never done is to buyout more than two years of a coach's contract in a revenue sport. We have brought back Vic Trilli for a 4th (out of 5 years) year after a disaster that is worse than Benford's short tenure, which got a 4-22 record for his last year. We did the same thing with Todd Dodge in football, which got him a 4th (out of 5 years), and he responded by winning one more game before getting canned in mid-season.

We can all ahte it--and we all do--but Benford will be here again next season, and probably the year after. When you are 100% completely serious about athletic funding, you build the best facilities (or remodel) them, you hire and pay for good coaching and ADs, and then wehn the leadership proves to be failing, you make changes--NO MATTER HOW COSTLY THEY ARE!! Western Kentucky--not Kentucky, mind you--gets this. Southern Miss--not Mississippi State--gets this. But those schools have seen what athletic success has meant for their entire university and town. Here in Denton, we haven't seen that fully yet. With football's first taste of legitimate success as a FBS program in 10 years or more, maybe that success will get felt at a huge level in Denton and on campus, enough to cause bigger changes. But, until that happens, basketball costs money...and we are always about value first. Just look at what we promote as a university and you get the idea very quickly.

Then we should stop playing major college athletics, plain and simple.

There is a big difference between can't and won't. If it is a "can't" situation, we need to accept our fate and drop down to FCS (yes, I know this is a football reference, but it would indicate that we simply don't have the funding to play major college athletics).

If it is a "won't" situation, then that is a leadership problem at the AD and BOR level. If we manage to only win 3 or 4 more games, I expect to see a change. If not, you may not see me at the Pit for a very long time.

wardly · January 13, 2014

We have enough money as a member of CUSA to compete in athletics with AAC,MW,Sun Belt,and MAC conferences. What we don't have is enough extra cash to buy out bad hires.That money will have to come from alumni,and while we have a few deep pockets,we probably don't have nearly enough.

FirefightnRick · January 13, 2014

Again.... we do not need to buy him out. As we did with Simon, we need to re-assign him and promote his next in line. He will either resign or leave on his own when his next coaching opportunity comes along, and move on.

We have done this before. Unless there is something weird in his contract we don't know of, then there shouldn't be any reason it can't happen again.

Rick

BillySee58 · January 13, 2014

Again.... we do not need to buy him out. As we did with Simon, we need to re-assign him and promote his next in line. He will either resign or leave on his own when his next coaching opportunity comes along, and move on.
We have done this before. Unless there is something weird in his contract we don't know of, then there shouldn't be any reason it can't happen again.
Rick

1. That's not how it works

2. We need a regime change. Promoting an assistant to head coach and leaving Benford as an assistant would change nothing. Benford is not improving our situation that he put us in, and neither is his staff.

3. The "weird" thing in his contract is that we'd have to buy him out to relieve him of his head coaching duties. The only way he won't be our head coach is if we fire him and buy his contract out or he accepts a coaching position somewhere else. No college would pay him anywhere close to what he is getting here, nor will another college give him an opportunity to be their head coach, and he surely would not step down willingly. Especially not to become an assistant here.

4. Lol at thinking about the next college coaching opportunity he will get.

Edit: not meant as a slight at you Rick, my point was just to not expect that to be the way this problem is solved.

Edited January 13, 2014 by BillySee58

FirefightnRick · January 13, 2014

1. That's not how it works
2. We need a regime change. Promoting an assistant to head coach and leaving Benford as an assistant would change nothing. Benford is not improving our situation that he put us in, and neither is his staff.
3. The "weird" thing in his contract is that we'd have to buy him out to relieve him of his head coaching duties. The only way he won't be our head coach is if we fire him and buy his contract out or he accepts a coaching position somewhere else. No college would pay him anywhere close to what he is getting here, nor will another college give him an opportunity to be their head coach, and he surely would not step down willingly. Especially not to become an assistant here.
4. Lol at thinking about the next college coaching opportunity he will get.
Edit: not meant as a slight at you Rick, my point was just to not expect that to be the way this problem is solved.

That's exactly how it worked in '95-'96. We reassigned Simon and made him assistant athletic director of facilities and he moved on shortly after.

Rick

BillySee58 · January 13, 2014

That's exactly how it worked in '95-'96. We reassigned Simon and made him assistant athletic director of facilities and he moved on shortly after.
Rick

Not saying it has never happened or that it can't ever again, just that it won't in this particular instance.

foutsrouts · January 13, 2014

That's exactly how it worked in '95-'96. We reassigned Simon and made him assistant athletic director of facilities and he moved on shortly after.
Rick

Reassignment OFF the court are my thoughts as well. He's not a kid anymore, and if he wants to sit on his hands for 3 more years just to collect big paychecks then so be it, but that could very well be a career-ender for him. I suspect he could find a pretty good assistant position fairly quickly if he chose to do so. On the other hand, if the wheels TOTALLY fall off on this season those quality assistant offers could get scarce.