Stadium

[Green Mean]

Emmitt, I don't know how I feel about that.

Personally, I can't stand that stuff. Have you ever been to a UTA basketball game in their new arena? They've got this remote control blimp that poops out coupons for a free Rudy's taco. I thought it was super bush league, and the whole experience felt like a child's amusement park much more than it did a basketball game.

But, I also understand that I'm not the average sports fan. Hell, the Frisco Roughriders have a SWIMMING POOL in the outfield! a freaking SWIMMING POOL! For a baseball game! I don't understand that one bit. Not one bit. But damn if that section wasn't booked for ever Frisco game I ever went to. And those incessant mid-inning spin you head around a bat game, complete with Tony Robbins Jr. ear mounted microphone announcer guy. Unbearable for me, but it packed seats.

So, yeah. This fan base is never gonna be Nebraska or Ohio State where the sheer existence of a team, its colors and its fight songs are enough to draw 100,000 people win, lose, or draw. I cringe at the gimmicks. I hope I can see past them when they inevitably happen.

And I say why can't we or why can't this fan base ever get that big enough? How many 100K sellouts are there in college football? There's no reason we can't become like a big AQ school if we keep on making the right decisions and doing things the right way. It will take time but I don't believe we can't ever become a much bigger time athletics school.

[NorthTexan95]

This discussion isn't complete until you view this video of what Apogee could look like if expanded to over 90k.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lAytJiCoSs&list=FLt2T7aWKu8_XD4qp6SE7U9A

EDIT: corrected the link

Edited January 8, 2014 by NorthTexan95

[pastorgrant]

It's so hard to look into the future and see anything with any clarity, so I can't say anything as far as when or if it will happen.

But here's what I do know: This town will support UNT if we win AND people get out and spread the word. The work that folks on this board did to get downtown Dallas to light up green for our bowl was awesome. If we can get into the top 25 and stay there for most of a year, coupled with the work that Emmitt mentioned, tickets will be hard to get at Apogee. If we keep that up for a few years, it will be time to expand.

[Greendylan]

Amazingly, though you qualified your question to include all of the respnses you received, no one actually answered your specific question you asked...so allow me.

10 years. I think the trajectory of this program, the coaches currently in place and the awakening of this fan base will push us toward that goal. But I too have a few qualifiers.

First, we need to abandon the "if you win they will come" mentality because winning alone will not fix the problem. Until we promote this program in a manner that draws in potential fans who are looking for the "window dressing" we won't approach sellouts. When Mark Cuban first took over the Mavs one of the things he did was to make a Mavs game an event. There were blimps that dropped khakis on you, music during every timeout, giveaways if the mavs reached a certain milestone, etc. I know we can't afford to drop khakis but have you ever noticed that the loudest cheers you hear at our basketball games (especially these days) are when everyone wins a free Wendy's frostee? Why? Because it's an added bonus, something to get excited about, other than the on field product. When Silver goes on and on about pageantry (and you all dismiss him) you miss the point. Pageantry makes it feel like an EVENT. The idea that we are going to have to rely on bringing in big names and winning consistently alone is counter-intuitive. It's a long tiresome process and it's just not reasonable...Texas and Nebraska etc are not coming to Denton, they're not.

Absolutely. You know, I've been thinking lately about the tailgaters who never set foot in the stadium. While I was in town for the holidays, I talked to some old friends who used to tailgate every single game but never attended one. The guys just never saw a reason to abandon their UT fandom, because they viewed North Texas as irrelevant. The girls didn't care so much about wins and losses. They just wanted to be where the party was. If you give the girls a reason to venture into the stadium, then the guys will come too regardless of how they view the teams.

[Stan R]

Does it have to be a first expansion all the way up to 50K? Why not just fill in the wingzone to connect it two the two sides? I'd think that would only add about 5-8K additional seats and it would look fantastic. The cost on that would not be outrageous - I'm thinking (wild guess) that would be in the range of 20-30 milllion. Nothing crazy - significant, but not crazy dollars.

[oldguystudent]

This discussion isn't complete until you view this video of what Apogee could look like if expanded to over 90k.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sczw2XLZxk&list=FLt2T7aWKu8_XD4qp6SE7U9A

Why am I watching 39 minutes of an arm carrying a stick through underground tunnels?

[Stan R]

Why am I watching 39 minutes of an arm carrying a stick through underground tunnels?

Underground tunnel stadium. Reduces the Texas heat and provides an added bonus of a natural indoor practice facility.

BRILLIANT!

[GOMG2013]

The "EVENT" of the day..must be there...the pageantry (TAM, UT, etc) , the tailgating (this is become very special at UNT now) and the game...it is all about the SOCIAL activities with a great ball game. UNT will need to get the city much more involved, get intouch with alumni (with something they can see or hear, not just a postcard that says "come to a game". It will be sad if we don't capitalize on our current situation.

This.

comparing UNTs situation to other big time programs is useless. Its about economics. With so many pro and college options, its going to take a lot of work and strategy to reach those extra fans.

Even winning 8 games a year for 6 years straight is not going to get the results some want. There's a lot of competition and alternatives in the Dallas area.

UNT has to take advantage of the pageantry that college football offers vs pro sports. It has to become a tradition and part of the local community.

what does college offer over pro sports? Partying, girls, hanging out, parades, social groups and organizations, access to coaches and players, pep rallys, cheaper prices, rowdy atmopshere, etc.

No beer, closing practices, limiting students fun, takes away the college experience. UNT needs to start capitalizing on these things.

Players and coaches need to be in the community and have on UNT gear at all times. See a kid, sign an autograph. Kid is hooked. The campus has to look like its football season.

[NorthTexan95]

Does it have to be a first expansion all the way up to 50K? Why not just fill in the wingzone to connect it two the two sides? I'd think that would only add about 5-8K additional seats and it would look fantastic. The cost on that would not be outrageous - I'm thinking (wild guess) that would be in the range of 20-30 milllion. Nothing crazy - significant, but not crazy dollars.

Why am I watching 39 minutes of an arm carrying a stick through underground tunnels?

Underground tunnel ... it's in the plans!

Actually, it was the wrong link. I corrected the link in my original post. Here is the correct one again for easy reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lAytJiCoSs&list=FLt2T7aWKu8_XD4qp6SE7U9A

It's an idea for expanding Apogee to 90k. It's fun to watch.

[meangreener]

Does it have to be a first expansion all the way up to 50K? Why not just fill in the wingzone to connect it two the two sides? I'd think that would only add about 5-8K additional seats and it would look fantastic. The cost on that would not be outrageous - I'm thinking (wild guess) that would be in the range of 20-30 milllion. Nothing crazy - significant, but not crazy dollars.

Probably the 6th time I've said this, but the Wing Zone is not in any future expansion plans. At all. Also, the Wing Zone is a major reason as to the noise of the stadium. The entire side of the freeway facing the freeway is built specifically for the Wing Zone and would cost a lot to replace. The next phase of expansion is a second deck on top of the student side.

The Wing Zone is the trademark of the stadium. The bridge and logo is all themed after it. The bridge was made specifically so the imposing wing zone would be all you see and built specifically to look imposing from the freeway.

Edited January 8, 2014 by meangreener

[GrayEagle]

1) After 1a season of sellouts/near sellouts or 2) admission to the Big XII.

Neither is going to happen within the next 12 years. We could get lucky in less time but barring a couple of Top 25 finishes, I just don't see it.

Actually, admission to the Big XII is the more likely of the two but that's only if the other Power 5 conferences force the Big 12 to expand. Since the conference is composed of large state universities (except for Baylor and TCU) North Texas and Houston would be distinct possibilities. Admittedly, that is pie-in-the-sky hopes but so are a season of sellouts.

Unless and until Conference USA becomes the top G5 conference, attendance will average no better thabn the middle to upper twentis unless we are having a string of 8-10 win seasons we won't sell out Apogee on a regular basis. Recruitment, promotions, consistent winning, student involvement and competition all have to come together before we can consider expansion.

Don't forget. We still have some hefty bond payments to make on the existing stadium and we'd need an extremely strong reason to add more debt without an excellent reason.

[forevereagle]

Probably the 6th time I've said this, but the Wing Zone is not in any future expansion plans. At all. Also, the Wing Zone is a major reason as to the noise of the stadium. The entire side of the freeway facing the freeway is built specifically for the Wing Zone and would cost a lot to replace. The next phase of expansion is a second deck on top of the student side.

The Wing Zone is the trademark of the stadium. The bridge and logo is all themed after it. The bridge was made specifically so the imposing wing zone would be all you see and built specifically to look imposing from the freeway.

Have a look at the master plan that I posted earlier. It does not agree with your statement about the wing. Could just be a quick drawing, but could be indicative of the plan.

[meangreener]

Have a look at the master plan that I posted earlier. It does not agree with your statement about the wing. Could just be a quick drawing, but could be indicative of the plan.

The master plan simply only contains sketches of ways to expand the stadium to a certain size that was provided to us by the architects. Every time actual expansion is discussed, it is discusses in a manner regarding adding an upper deck. HKS reportedly convinced us to add the wing, and then provided plans to get rid/expand if it became necessary.

[forevereagle]

The master plan simply only contains sketches of ways to expand the stadium to a certain size that was provided to us by the architects. Every time actual expansion is discussed, it is discusses in a manner regarding adding an upper deck. HKS reportedly convinced us to add the wing, and then provided plans to get rid/expand if it became necessary.

I don't profess to know exactly what will happen, but evidence suggests that we may fill in the wing when expansion occurs. Given the phase of the plan that the stadium expansion is listed in the master plan, I would not bet on it happening for about 10-15 years either way unless need were to make it necessary sooner.

[UNTFan23]

Underground tunnel ... it's in the plans!

Actually, it was the wrong link. I corrected the link in my original post. Here is the correct one again for easy reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lAytJiCoSs&list=FLt2T7aWKu8_XD4qp6SE7U9A

It's an idea for expanding Apogee to 90k. It's fun to watch.

This was a pie-in-the-sky thing someone came up with. There are huge problems with his plans as things like the Athletic Center are in the way of expanding in the south end zone.

[oldguystudent]

I'm amused by the upper deck above the existing club level and suites in that video. You want to put pedestrian fans ABOVE the velvet ropes? Would they have to share the elevators?

[Eastwood Eagle]

One thing I could see happening if there is a demand, is adding suites to the student side without necessarily expanding the student side.

[greenblooded_gal]

I like the design... and even though it has obstacles that would need to be addressed... it is pie in the sky but 15 years from now or maybe 20.... who knows? Hey we can dream of the bigger leagues can't we? And a day we might have a stadium like that? Which we filled every home game? And a day UNT was included in the top 10? Come on.. about 15 years ago... did we ever think we'd be sitting in Apogee??

[VideoEagle]

The announcers mentioned that it was 88 degrees at kick-off.

Were they talking about inside the announce booth?

[GrayEagle]

You know, I've wondered why stadiums weren't designed with ducts for heating and air conditioning to give as much comfort (and fewer excuses for not attending) to the fans. Surely, some engineers could come up with a solution to distributing hot and cold without discomforting those hear the ducts or pipes.

And, while we're at it, why not a skin that could be drawn over the entire stadium that could provide shelter from sun and rain? The material may not currently exist that is both light and strong enough to be functional but it would make a great research project.

Is it possible that improvements such as these could bring out enough additional fans to pay for itself?

[oldguystudent]

You know, I've wondered why stadiums weren't designed with ducts for heating and air conditioning to give as much comfort (and fewer excuses for not attending) to the fans.

Such a system was part of the original construction of Candlestick Park, but it never functioned. Modern stadiums seem like they want to put as many amenities as possible into the club/suite levels. So unless its a dome, screw you and your withering heat or your frostbite inducing cold. Keeping the masses comfortable is 'spensive, and the masses don't tend to pay that back.

[NorthTexan95]

Actually, admission to the Big XII is the more likely of the two but that's only if the other Power 5 conferences force the Big 12 to expand. Since the conference is composed of large state universities (except for Baylor and TCU) North Texas and Houston would be distinct possibilities. Admittedly, that is pie-in-the-sky hopes but so are a season of sellouts.

Another possibility is Texas and OU leave for other conferences (SEC / Pac 10 / Big 10) and may takes one or two other schools with them. The remaining schools could look to UNT, Houston, Memphis, etc to fill in the gaps. You would then have the P4 group and the new Big 12 would be the best of the remaining conferences.

Assume Oklahoma is forced by their state legislature to take Oklahoma State with them to the SEC. Texas is powerful enough to go by themselves to the Big 10 or Pac 12. That would leave the Big 12 with the following seven teams:

Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, TCU, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas.

Add North Texas, Houston, Memphis to get to 10. Then add two more to get to 12. That conference would be the best of the non P4 conferences.

[Green Otaku]

I thought it was said that the first expansion to happen would be to add suites on the student side and another deck on top of that.

Also I know the wing was made for quick take down being steel, but would expansion mean taking it out and replacing it with cement or adding additional steel structure to fill it in?

[Green Otaku]

Another possibility is Texas and OU leave for other conferences (SEC / Pac 10 / Big 10) and may takes one or two other schools with them. The remaining schools could look to UNT, Houston, Memphis, etc to fill in the gaps. You would then have the P4 group and the new Big 12 would be the best of the remaining conferences.

Assume Oklahoma is forced by their state legislature to take Oklahoma State with them to the SEC. Texas is powerful enough to go by themselves to the Big 10 or Pac 12. That would leave the Big 12 with the following seven teams:

Baylor, Kansas State, Texas Tech, TCU, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas.

Add North Texas, Houston, Memphis to get to 10. Then add two more to get to 12. That conference would be the best of the non P4 conferences.

That would be a dream scenario for UNT and if it happened I have no doubt we could match these other school's stadiums with immediate expansion.

Unfortunately the route right now goes SBC--->CUSA----->AAC----->Big12

Its very hard to jump out of that path. UTSA did so by showing great attendance and jumped from the WAC to CUSA. Fortunately for us TCU/Houston/SMU are down right now and we have to keep it that way. The landscape has settled down somewhat but with change in the BCS there is always a chance something drastic happens when a new system is put into place. Keep winning games, win conference championships, win bowls, and we will get a look if an opening comes up.

[SilverEagle]

Absolutely. You know, I've been thinking lately about the tailgaters who never set foot in the stadium. While I was in town for the holidays, I talked to some old friends who used to tailgate every single game but never attended one. The guys just never saw a reason to abandon their UT fandom, because they viewed North Texas as irrelevant. The girls didn't care so much about wins and losses. They just wanted to be where the party was. If you give the girls a reason to venture into the stadium, then the guys will come too regardless of how they view the teams.

I heard that that situation was being "addressed" by having the North Texas police go up on the hill after the game had started and start issuing underage drinking tickets. I don't know if it was true or not, but it sure sounded like music to my ears. If they are students (or even if they are not students) and they are not going to enter the stadium, then I say all bets are off.