Projected d-line depth chart

[BillySee58]

A lot of talk and concern about our d-line and depth for next year. Kind of like this year. A little early to talk about it, I know, but we are anyway so why not?

Here's a little projection at what the depth chart will likely look like if we don't get anyone else for the signing class (I think we get 1, maybe 2 more):

DE - Daryl Mason Sr (spot starting experience and a 4-year contributor, much like Bellazin headed into his senior year)

- Jarrian Roberts rs Soph (2 sacks against Idaho and had scoop and score against Tulsa)

- Malik Dilonga rs Soph (not really any game experience

DT- Alex Lincoln Sr (starting experience and 4-year contributor)

- Dutton Watson rs soph (limited game experience)

- Mustafa Haboul (limited game experience)

NT - Austin Orr rs Jr (has not started but has gotten in rotation this year)

- Sir Calvin Wallace rs Soph (biggest d-lineman)

- Syd Moore rs Fr (good high school film)

- Shaq Jackson true freshman (back to back 1st team all district seasons in tough district)

DE - Chad Polk rs Jr (undersized but effective pass rusher this year)

- Quenton Brown rs Sr (same as Polk in, came in last quarter of this year)

- Andy Fleusche Soph (preferred walk on true freshman contributed on special teams, good size)

- Johnavahm Graham true freshman (broke leg early in year for DeSoto)

Starters look pretty good, but working on the depth and getting a decent rotation will be the challenge.

[GrandGreen]

Not a lot like last year, when NT returned a couple of starters in Boutwell and McCoy plus Bellazin who came on real strong at the end of 2012.

Next year NT has basically the second team back and a lot of inexperienced players.

The coaches are the only ones that have a clue about the abilities of those with no or limited playing time. Based on the commits, the coaches don't seem to be as concerned as with the wrs and lbs. I hope that means they are happy eith what they have and not an inability to recruit.

[Harry]

Good stuff. Man I could pull up numerous thread leading into this last season decrying our issues at the defensive line. NOONE thought Richard Abbe would all of a sudden become a stud C-USA inside D-tackle. We has not a clue that Bellazin would lead the C-USA in sacks. So it's going to depend a lot of how well these young guys develop in the offseason.

Wasn't Orr in the Stand? At least for a couple of plays? Can he ever stay healthy?

Is Syd Moore ever going to be big enough to be a defensive tackle? Would he be more of an asset as a Sarge type of run stopping defensive end?

Are Dutton Watson and Mustafa Haboul major contributors or spot duty guys?

Is Dilonga actually better suited at defensive tackle? How big is that dude now?

Chad Polk is a good player but I don't see him as an every down type of end. He's going to be a liability against the power running game at his size.

[Cooley]

Not a pretty picture! A collection of backups on a good team. But then again, it was a down league.

With 1 or 2 ships to go, looks like a C+ class to me. Disappointing considering the new conference and coming off the season we had

[North Texas Shep]

We an all tell that depth is an issue. Also, we need to believe that our coaches are building up these players and they are ready to play. We have to make that assumption or we are going to drive ourselves crazy.

Truthfully, I am already driving myself crazy thinking about it and there is still a bowl game this year!

[BillySee58]

Good stuff. Man I could pull up numerous thread leading into this last season decrying our issues at the defensive line. NOONE thought Richard Abbe would all of a sudden become a stud C-USA inside D-tackle. We has not a clue that Bellazin would lead the C-USA in sacks. So it's going to depend a lot of how well these young guys develop in the offseason.

Wasn't Orr in the Stand? At least for a couple of plays? Can he ever stay healthy?

Is Syd Moore ever going to be big enough to be a defensive tackle? Would he be more of an asset as a Sarge type of run stopping defensive end?

Are Dutton Watson and Mustafa Haboul major contributors or spot duty guys?

Is Dilonga actually better suited at defensive tackle? How big is that dude now?

Chad Polk is a good player but I don't see him as an every down type of end. He's going to be a liability against the power running game at his size.

Yeah, Orr was in on 2 plays in the stand. Just watched it on beyond the green. He's been healthy all year.

I don't know about Syd. Seeing him in person on campus he doesn't look like a D1 d-tackle. But from his film you can tell he's a penetrator. He has a great explosion off the ball and hopefully can translate that in college and shoot through the gaps before the bigger lineman get a chance to put their paws on him.

Big spring for Watson, Haboul, and Dilonga. And Sir Calvin for that matter. We brought in 5 d-lineman in the clasa of 2012 (also Horton who is no longer with the team) and none have seen the field yet. Next year will be their third years in the program. Dilonga looks too skinny to play inside but he has the length.

Polk has looked surprisingly good in the run game, but I agree. Asking a 6'0" 225 lb guy to play 60 snaps a game at defensive end over the course of a 12 game season is a lot.

[Harry]

Austin Orr injury thread:

[UNT90]

Good stuff. Man I could pull up numerous thread leading into this last season decrying our issues at the defensive line. NOONE thought Richard Abbe would all of a sudden become a stud C-USA inside D-tackle. We has not a clue that Bellazin would lead the C-USA in sacks. So it's going to depend a lot of how well these young guys develop in the offseason.

Wasn't Orr in the Stand? At least for a couple of plays? Can he ever stay healthy?

Is Syd Moore ever going to be big enough to be a defensive tackle? Would he be more of an asset as a Sarge type of run stopping defensive end?

Are Dutton Watson and Mustafa Haboul major contributors or spot duty guys?

Is Dilonga actually better suited at defensive tackle? How big is that dude now?

Chad Polk is a good player but I don't see him as an every down type of end. He's going to be a liability against the power running game at his size.

If history is any indication, Syd Moore will be a defensive tackle...

Then a defensive end...

Then a defensive tackle...

Then a defensive end... ;-)

[BillySee58]

Austin Orr injury thread:

True. Forget about his late season absence. Stayed healthy most of the year and saw some time in the rotation.

[EastTexasMG]

Big spring for Watson, Haboul, and Dilonga. And Sir Calvin for that matter. We brought in 5 d-lineman in the clasa of 2012 (also Horton who is no longer with the team) and none have seen the field yet. Next year will be their third years in the program. Dilonga looks too skinny to play inside but he has the length.

Polk has looked surprisingly good in the run game, but I agree. Asking a 6'0" 225 lb guy to play 60 snaps a game at defensive end over the course of a 12 game season is a lot.

Wasn't Dylan McDorman in that recruiting class too? That would make 6 d-lineman in the 2012 class.

[BillySee58]

Wasn't Dylan McDorman in that recruiting class too? That would make 6 d-lineman in the 2012 class.

Yup. Good catch. And so was Jarrian Roberts, who was brought in as a linebacker but is now a defensive end.

7 defensive lineman in one class.

[JesseMartin]

I don't know if you guys reflect my sentiments, but for now I'm really not worried about next year. Mac touched on this in the BtG footage, but Wintrich is an insanely valuable asset. And like I said last year when everybody wondered if we really would turn the corner this year, the redshirting and conditioning has been exactly what is needed to build a sustainable program instead of the occasional really good season with a couple of blah seasons before the next good one. I've always been a huge believer in the value of conditioning, and a lot of guys I grew up with were from athlete/coach families that believed the only way to get better at a sport was by playing that sport and not by training in other ways (i.e. conditioning for strength, agility, speed...). In a high speed impact sport you will always have injuries, but they are lessened by the overall health of the bodies of the guys who are in peak condition and are also able to play at a higher level due to their physical development in multiple areas.

Edited December 18, 2013 by JesseMartin

[Danish43]

Yup. Good catch. And so was Jarrian Roberts, who was brought in as a linebacker but is now a defensive end.

7 defensive lineman in one class.

Billy See:

So what to you see in Roberts & McDorman? Think they are legit to make a difference?

[scrappyman1]

I am telling all of you now. Beware of Sir Calvin Wallace, he is a monster and I saw

him play against Waco LaVega in a quarterfinal game a coiple of years ago, and

he was all over the field. He is a monster and everyone will come to like him a lot.

[risinggreen]

I am telling all of you now. Beware of Sir Calvin Wallace, he is a monster and I saw

him play against Waco LaVega in a quarterfinal game a coiple of years ago, and

he was all over the field. He is a monster and everyone will come to like him a lot.

Sure hope so. I think we're counting on him to turn into the big disruptive force that Abbe has been for us this year.

[BillySee58]

Billy See:

So what to you see in Roberts & McDorman? Think they are legit to make a difference?

McDorman is not on the team. He had to quit football due to injury last spring.

As for Roberts, he is currently our 4th best returning defensive end behind Mason, Polk, and Brown. He has a very good chance to get in the rotation next year.

[GrayEagle]

The thinness and lack of game experience was the reason that I commented that we desperately needed a Juco such as Martial.

We seem to come together last year when Dick Abbe started playing like a man possessed and we all know how scary his situation was. Had he not agreed to play without scholarship I don't believe that we would be about to witness a bowl game. Also, I believe that his improved play helped Boutwell and Lincoln.

We can struggle through at the ends even though no one has much experience. In fact, of the whole defensive line only Lincoln has played extensively and he's undersized at tackle. Wallace does have size and he has to have an above average year for the 2014 team to have much success. Moore was a demon in high school with his having about 50 pounds on Class 3A offensive linemen but will that transfer to the FBS level? Austin Orr has potential to improve on size and playing ability. But, the defensive line has, and continues to be our biggest problem.

I don't question Mac's ability to get the most out of what he has. I don't question Mike Nelson's coaching ability but I do believe he needs to be a lot more diligent in finding studs to recruit. Why is size and depth an annual problem?

[Army of Dad]

I don't question Mac's ability to get the most out of what he has. I don't question Mike Nelson's coaching ability but I do believe he needs to be a lot more diligent in finding studs to recruit. Why is size and depth an annual problem?

Because there are only so many big strong guys to go around and we are far enough down the pecking order that many/most of them are already taken?

[Mean Green 93-98]

I don't question Mike Nelson's coaching ability but I do believe he needs to be a lot more diligent in finding studs to recruit. Why is size and depth an annual problem?

Recruitment doesn't usually work that way. That is, coaches are not primarily charged with recruiting players to their position, they are primarily charged with recruiting players in their assigned geographic area. That said, who is going to be a player's position coach factors in a whole lot when a recruit is deciding where to go.

[UNTLifer]

Any chance Rheinhart moves to DT? I know he was recruited as a TE, but he appears to have the skills, size and attitude to play DT. Of course, I've always wondered why we never tried Micah Thompson at DT. Then again, maybe we did and that necessitated his move to OT.

[SilverEagle]

Any chance Rheinhart moves to DT? I know he was recruited as a TE, but he appears to have the skills, size and attitude to play DT. Of course, I've always wondered why we never tried Micah Thompson at DT. Then again, maybe we did and that necessitated his move to OT.

Since we signed Rheinhart I've thought of him mainly as a DT prospect.And this is mainly based on his size AND some comments about him that indicated that he plays with "attitude". I remember that one of the first things that Abby did when he arrived for fall practice was get into a fight with our all-conference guard. I remember thinking, "he's playing the right position". Micah Thompson was recruited and signed as a DT. He was subsequently moved to OT during fall practice.

I watched Sir Calvin during last spring and thought that he was going to play a lot this fall. During practice he came off the line very quick, and seemed to be very motivated. I have no clue as to why he didn't play more.

But then, I have no clue as to why McNulty didn't play more.

[H-towngreen]

Reinhardt is reportedly down to 255lbs to play TE.

[GrayEagle]

I realize that defensive linemen, especially tackles, is the most valuable (and scarce) commodity in recruiting and that there may not be enough good ones to fall to our level. That means that you have to be creative and take on projects.

This year we have two quality DTs that we still might get...Aaron Jenkins of Dallas Lincoln and J T Williams of Denton Ryan. I'd rate our chances on either at less than 50%. So, if we fail something else has to be tried. Either take on a project who has the size but needs a year to improve weight, strength, speed, etc. There are two defensive tackles from Manvel (a playoff team) who are both in the 6'6"-6'7" range that look like good possibilities to fill that need. (Yes, I know that you don't have to be that tall; it just so happens these were). The other possibility is to recruit an offensive lineman and train him to play defense. Dick Abbe was such a project. But, if you do nothing and wait for next year you are behind again.

I realize that coaches recruit areas but they don't decide the various positions in their territory. Position coaches furnish input, usually on a board, for the recruiter. In some cases, the position coach himself could be sent to a particular recruit. There usually is a protocol but it's not carved in stone.

[DT 90]

Interesting thoughts. Three things you have to take into consideration:

1.Unless the guy is a 5 Star stud, very few true freshman DLinemen see any playing time.

2. Prototypical size does not mean the ability to play the position. Again I offer this year's Outland Trophy winner was 6'1" 280 lbs.

3. If a big guy is brought into play DLine and he is switched to Oline, he will not be switched back. See No.2

I've always said it is easier to find "high quality" D1 QBs that it is to find "good" D1 DTs.

Edited December 19, 2013 by DT 90

[Harry]

Interesting thoughts. Three things you have to take into consideration:

1.Unless the guy is a 5 Star stud, very few true freshman DLinemen see any playing time.

2. Prototypical size does not mean the ability to play the position. Again I offer this year's Outland Trophy winner was 6'1" 280 lbs.

3. If a big guy is brought into play DLine and he is switched to Oline, he will not be switched back. See No.2

I've always said it is easier to find "high quality" D1 QBs that it is to find "good" D1 DTs.

Thank you! These guys get moved to the oline for a reason.

A good example of what DT90 is saying is UT has a 2015 commit from DeSoto at defensive tackle named Bryce English who is listed at 5-11, 300 and is probably closer to 5-10. Height is NOT necessarily an advantage at this position as Booger Kennedy proved many moons ago. Old Texas would have never signed a kid with this height at this position -- it shows me that they are realizing that height at the inside can often be a detriment from a leverage perspective. They need to be a fire hydrant with quickness and leverage -- they need to have a nose for the ball and strong hands.

When you look at the OU's and UT's etc it really gets silly how many spots they are giving every single year to top rated defensive linemen. I really think that's what separates the power programs from the mid major. That's why the pool of available talent is so small. Look at last year, UNT identified a good DT prospect Charles Walker from Garland only to have OU come in and steal him away at the end. There just aren't very many big guys who can run and deal with 300 pound linemen effectively. The juco DT's with skills are in high demand. SInce the good ones all get snapped up it forces you to take chances on guys that have the potential (frame, speed) or guys that may not have their grades in order.