Of Saban, Brown, and Stoops

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

In one of the Brown threads, someone raised the absurd notion that Texas would have beaten Alabama with Colt McCoy. Unless Colt was also going to play DT, MLB, or SS, it was evident that Alabama was going to have its way with Texas' defense that night. So, McCoy, had he stayed healthy, would have had a front row seat for the beating, but nothing more.

I mentioned, as I always do about Saban, that he isn't in it to embarass the other team. Once his charges have a game under control, he calls church and puts in backups. In Dodge's game there with us, Saban had a backup QB in the game before halftime.

In that regard, Saban is, as the numbers bear out, a wholly different type of coach than Mack Brown and his main Big 12 nemesis, Bob Stoops. We have faced all three. Brown's teams have hung 60+ on us; Stoops gave us the 79-10 beating of a lifetime.

To think that Saban's Bama squads couldn't have also put 60- or 70+ on us is as much a fantasy as thinking Texas could have beat Alabama with Colt McCoy in the game.

Many people don't like Nick Saban for one reason or another. I love him because he does what needs to be done to win consistently - run the ball, stop the run, and play well on special teams. He is not in the game to set offensive record, push kids for the Heisman Trophy, or settle scores with other coaches or programs.

The man went out of this way to say nice things about our program when Todd Dodge was the coach. In short, he has class that most coaches will never have.

Is he a hard ass? Probably. But, after hearing the same questions over and over again for decades, you'd get short with the press as well. But, to me, what his teams do on the field during games they obviously havea game in hand says more to me about him than whether some pencil neck geek in the front row is asking him stupid questions like why they didn't register any sacks against North Texas.

Anyway, here are the numbers for Saban, Brown, and Stoops. I think it's evident from the number of national titles won that Saban's approach has been far better than Brown or Stoops - win the game, shut it down, get some young players some real game time, go home and prepare for next week.

Saban, 18 seasons: 165-56-1 / 4 national titles
70+ points: 0
60+ points: 2 (.009% of all games coached, 1.2% of all wins)

50+ points: 15 (7% of all games coached, 9% of all wins)

Brown, 30 seasons: 244-121-1 / 1 national title

70+ points: 1

60+ points: 14 (4% of all games coached, 6% of all wins)
50+ points: 53 (14% of all games coached, 22% of all wins)

Stoops, 15 seasons: 159-39-0 / 1 national title
70+ points: 2
60+ points: 19 (9.5% of all games coached, 12% of all wins)

50+ points: 43 (22% of all games coached, 27% of all wins)

Edited December 16, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

It should be noted that both of Saban's 60+ point game came in one season, 2010. So, he's had one season out of 18 where his teams have put 60+ on another school.

There really is no argument: Saban calls off the dog. He called off the dogs against Texas during that national title game five seasons ago. Hurrah to Texas for taking advantage of it. But, when Saban put the keys back in the car and started it, his charges went ahead and finished the job.

[Mean Green 93-98]

In one of the Brown threads, someone raised the absurd notion that Texas would have beaten Alabama with Colt McCoy. Unless Colt was also going to play DT, MLB, or SS, it was evident that Alabama was going to have its way with Texas' defense that night. So, McCoy, had he stayed healthy, would have had a front row seat for the beating, but nothing more.

Really? In Alabama's one offensive drive before McCoy went out, they ran 5 plays:

1st and 10 - Ingram rushed for no gain

2nd and 10 - False start

2nd and 15 - McElroy sacked

3rd and 23 - Incomplete pass

4th and 23 - Fake punt, intercepted

Yep, they sure were taking it to 'em.

Also, McElroy was in the entire game.

That said, it is not really up for debate that Saban is the best coach in college football, and maybe the best ever.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Mean Green 93-98

[oldguystudent]

and maybe the best ever.

I'm always fascinated with how superlatives in sports are somehow always in present day.

[Graddean]

The reason Texas defense looked so bad was because of the lack of offense after McCoy left. Only diehardTide fans would argue that the game outcome might have been different if McCoy did not get hurt.

Before we decide Saban might be the best ever, you should take a look at Bud Wilkinson's record. His winning percentage as head coach was 82.6. Saban's percentage is 74.6. Sometimes, we need to remember football has been played for a long time.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Really? In Alabama's one offensive drive before McCoy went out, they ran 5 plays:

1st and 10 - Ingram rushed for no gain

2nd and 10 - False start

2nd and 15 - McElroy sacked

3rd and 23 - Incomplete pass

4th and 23 - Fake punt, intercepted

Yep, they sure were taking it to 'em.

Also, McElroy was in the entire game.

That said, it is not really up for debate that Saban is the best coach in college football, and maybe the best ever.

So, because they didn't score on one drive...?

Nevermind.

[Mean Green 93-98]

So, because they didn't score on one drive...?

Nevermind.

Well, to which other drives before McCoy went out were you referring?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

You realize that Colt McCoy went out on Texas' first drive, right? Alabama had exactly one drive before that. So, there are no other drives to discuss. At halftime, Bama was up 24-6 and running Texas into the ground.

Texas' OL paved the way for a measly 81 yards on the ground, couldn't protect McCoy for even one complete series, and were abused to the tune of Alabama forcing five turnovers.

Up 24-6 at half, Bama called exactly two pass plays in the third quarter. Saban was packing it away. Once Bama missed a FG early in the fourth and Texas scored again, Bama's defense forced a quick fumble and interceptions, and followed them with rushing TDs.

Bama had not one, but two 100+ yard rushers and only threw the ball 11 times. Their defense rose when needed. And, they left Texas behind like a little girl's old rag doll.

[meangreenthirteen]

There's probably another message board for this...

[NorthTexan95]

We'll never know for sure but I believe Texas would have had a great chance to win with a healthy McCoy.

[Mean Green 93-98]

You realize that Colt McCoy went out on Texas' first drive, right? Alabama had exactly one drive before that. So, there are no other drives to discuss.

Exactly. So you have no sample size from which to draw to say that Alabama was having its way with Texas before he went out.

[Mean Green 93-98]

There's probably another message board for this...

This certainly does belong in the "Pie" forum.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Exactly. So you have no sample size from which to draw to say that Alabama was having its way with Texas before he went out.

Sample size? I'd say getting through to knock out the starting QB just a few plays into the game is all the sample size you need. The five turnovers forced later in the game, the two 100 yards rushers, and inability to rush for 100 on offense on the night, pretty much completed the story that began with the knockout on the first drive.

[Mean_Green09]

There are so many variables to that UT vs Bama game. Saban didn't call off the dogs. Not when it was still a game. They didn't pass much because they couldn't protect their herp a derp QB McElroy. If McCoy plays it is a much closer game. Does Bama win? Maybe.

I will say this Bama couldn't cover the one guy who UT had and that was Shipley. Bama's defense was trying to cover him man to man all game long and UT was lining him up as a flex. I'm pretty sure that McCoy would have torched their defense through the air.

Bama's strength was the run defense, not a pass rushing team. They hurt McCoy on a designed run, so your idea of they couldn't protect him is wrong.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Your assumption is that with McCoy in the game, Bama would have covered Shipley the same way. As it was, Bama "effected the quarterback" as Saban requires:

Gilbert was only 15 for 40, 186 yards, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 1 fumble...so...?

[Mean_Green09]

Your assumption is that with McCoy in the game, Bama would have covered Shipley the same way. As it was, Bama "effected the quarterback" as Saban requires:

Gilbert was only 15 for 40, 186 yards, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 1 fumble...so...?

Yes they would have. It was how their defense was designed vs what UT was going to run on offense. Under your assumptions why didn't they make adjustments for Manziel this year then? Why didn't they make adjustments to stop Shipley in game when he was lighting them up for like 120 yards and 10 catches I think?

Yeah Gilbert has those ugly stats and yet somehow UT is within a TD of have a lead in the 4th qr. That just screams of a team getting rolled like you say. Dude hardly plays all year and some how brings UT back against a good Bama team with no running game and one true okay 2 guys to throw the ball too.

The outcome of that game would have been a lot different if McCoy plays.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Bama, up 24-6, would have, maybe paid closer attention to Shipley? Maybe not. McCoy didn't exactly light up Nebaska in the Big 12 title game that year, and Texas won and advanced not because of McCoy, but because Big 12 officials put one second back on the clock for them at the end of the game.

McCoy was 20-36 for 186, 0 TDs, 3 INTs versus Nebraska. Alabama's defense was better than even Nebraska's then. There's no guarantee he would have done any better. As it was, he couldn't even take more than one hit from Bama's defense.

He was bad against OU that year as well: 21 of 39, 127 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT...another close win for UT, but not because McCoy did anything special.

The top two defenses McCoy had faced in conference in 2009 had battered him. Bama did the same thing...just much earlier in the game than OU or Nebraska did.

So, with McCoy, without McCoy, it wasn't going to make much of a difference. Bama ran them out of the house...when interested...by three scores/16 points.

Edited December 16, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Mean_Green09]

Bama, up 24-6, would have, maybe paid closer attention to Shipley? Maybe not. McCoy didn't exactly light up Nebaska in the Big 12 title game that year, and Texas won and advanced not because of McCoy, but because Big 12 officials put one second back on the clock for them at the end of the game.

McCoy was 20-36 for 186, 0 TDs, 3 INTs versus Nebraska. Alabama's defense was better than even Nebraska's then. There's no guarantee he would have done any better. As it was, he couldn't even take more than one hit from Bama's defense.

He was bad against OU that year as well: 21 of 39, 127 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT...another close win for UT, but not because McCoy did anything special.

The top two defenses McCoy had faced in conference in 2009 had battered him. Bama did the same thing...just much earlier in the game than OU or Nebraska did.

So, with McCoy, without McCoy, it wasn't going to make much of a difference. Bama ran them out of the house...when interested...by three scores/16 points.

OU and Nebraska ran a defensive scheme that worked great against what UT did it was designed to take away the short underneath throws and to force you to throw in coverage down the field. Bama didn't run anything similar. McCoy would have been So I'm pretty sure he would have a had a good night. Basing my beliefs off of scheme and history. Not just my dislike for UT.

You must listen to Paul Finebaum way too much cause your starting to sound like him.

[Quoner]

Congrats on having other teams to cheer for, especially while we were bad, guys! Any thoughts on the 2009 grudge match for the Old Oaken Bucket?

[forevereagle]

[Mean_Green09]

Congrats on having other teams to cheer for, especially while we were bad, guys! Any thoughts on the 2009 grudge match for the Old Oaken Bucket?

Ya, Purdue was the far superior team and it showed. The Hoosiers really struggled to hold onto the ball much like UT. They gave it away 4 times. You cant win a game when your minus 4 in the turnover battle.

[LongJim]

Congrats on having other teams to cheer for, especially while we were bad, guys! Any thoughts on the 2009 grudge match for the Old Oaken Bucket?

*lukewarm coffee through nose*

[Cr1028]

My opinion is yes Texas would have played better with Colt but Alabama still would have beaten them handily. In rewatching some of the game I realized that the Alabama offense was trying to act like a Big 12 offense in trying to make McElroy throw it. Once they got back to their bread and butter power run game, Texas D looked like swiss cheese. I think it took Kirby Smart and his players awhile to feel out the UT offense before they really settled in to make big plays.

I've always questioned McCoy's fortitude for not at least making an attempt to come in the game. He had to protect that 3rd round draft status I guess. I know there are quarterbacks out there that could have an arm fall off and ask for it to be taped back on to play in a National title game. Riley even though he was injury prone was a guy like that, Vizza was too.

Link to game

http://youtu.be/4vxwlglDXUY?t=6m02s

Edited December 16, 2013 by Cr1028

[GreenBat]

Who gives a "F"?

This is a North Texas Football board. Take your 2009 tU-Alabama talk to either the tU or Alabama board.

[Coffee and TV]

LOL.

Alabama passed for 58 yards, was up 24-21 in the 4th quarter, and Gilbert had 6 turnovers. Yeah...McCoy wouldn't have made a difference at all.