Tough times on The Hilltop

[Mean Green 93-98]

I'm an alumni of both schools, though I got my undergrad at UNT... being involved with both schools I would not say that SMU alums have more money, rather the school is better at getting money out of their alumni. SMU has a very strong connection with their alumni association, they wine us and dine us, and then out come our check books. I have always been a UNT football fan and make most home games, but that alumni center next to the stadium is a joke, its a tool shed with a bathroom, hardly anyone is ever in there. if you ask me, the school needs to turn the alumni center around on game day, make it a place that every alum wants to visit on game day, free drinks and food, shake hands with former players, and the check books will come out.

What a great first post. Welcome to the board.

[MeanGreenDan]

The alumni pavilion is okay. The problem is, for example, the Coach's Caravan. Free wedding food and you have to pay for drinks. No players for autographs, little exterior publicity on it.

I always got free drinks...

[PlummMeanGreen]

You even posted in this thread!

Oh my, a stalker.

[Rudy]

You even posted in this thread!

Proof that even HE doesn't read his own posts

[Mean Green Matt]

The few fans in attendance look like they don't want him there either. On a side note, The Washington coach just accepted a job at USC, so expect Junes to look to take his Men's ministry to inner Seattle.

Yeah...because he is in such high demand with all those conference championships he has won at SMU.

[Rudy]

I didn't say he'd get the job, I just think he will go for it.

[UNTFan23]

Oh my, a stalker.

Far from it.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Far from it.

Just kiddin'....chill?

[UNTFan23]

Just kiddin'....chill?

[PlummMeanGreen]

I did put my fist there and knocked my gol' darned monitor off my desk onto the bedroom floor! Is that what you had in mind., UNTFan23? :

GMG!

PS: Beside the other stuff I'm full of I'm also full of Norm Hitzhges-style "dad jokes" now aren't I? I freely admit it.

Edited December 3, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[jacksondf]

His salary is supposedly funded by three alumni who ponied up (no pun intended) to bring him in originally.

[Mean Green 93-98]

His salary is supposedly funded by three alumni who ponied up (no pun intended) to bring him in originally.

I think it was more than that . . . 20 ponying up $500,000 apiece sounds right.

[greenit]

Rich people are so stupid sometimes.

[UNT90]

This thread really needs that pic Emmitt posted of those 3k fans at the SMU game.

[ragpicker]

I feel sorry for SMU football in a way because I can remember when it was the only game in town (except the Dallas Eagles baseball team) and how fun it was to go to the House that Doak Built and see good college football in a great atmosphere. That was then, however, and this is now. No matter what aspirations it has these days, SMU can't continue to ignore and attempt to manipulate basic mathematics forever. The Mustangs lost their Dallas fan base years ago to the pros and are not likely to regain it with the snobbery and pretense that leads to calling tailgating "Boulevarding" while building more and more luxury suites in an apparent attempt to have more fans in sky boxes than in the stands. Such a topsy-turvy perversion must eventually collapse upon itself.

UNT, SMU, TCU and UTA (basketball etc.) should play each other through some kind of round robin system in major sports every year. Those rivalries would could for college sports in this area, economically sound and a lot of fun. If, however, self centered attitudes prevail over the common good, those selfish attitudes will eventually reap the whirlwind. Indeed, the last time I attended a game at Ford Stadium it was rather sparse and windblown at that. Booze is fun but it is not the answer.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Does it matter? He's six or seven years into his 10-year contract. I think next year is likely the make or break for both sides. He loses Gilbert Grape at QB, so we'll see if he can just plug another guy in.

It's not as though they were knocking it out of the park in recruiting anyway. I mean, let's be honest - they were stealing recruits from us during the bowl run! So, what good has Jones really done for them in the long run?

And, by the way, we'll kind of be in the same boat next season. We lose a bunch of skill players who were recruited by Todd Dodge & Co. who this coaching staff turned into good players.

We'll see whether their recruiting can keep us from going from bowl season to losing season again real quick. Losing six of the front seven and all those skill players makes for a lot of holes to fill with less experience players.

[emmitt01]

SMU is Mrs Havisham and the SWC was her fiancé.

[greenit]

That's a real peach hon.

[oldguystudent]

UNT, SMU, TCU and UTA (basketball etc.) should play each other through some kind of round robin system in major sports every year. Those rivalries would could for college sports in this area, economically sound and a lot of fun. If, however, self centered attitudes prevail over the common good, those selfish attitudes will eventually reap the whirlwind. Indeed, the last time I attended a game at Ford Stadium it was rather sparse and windblown at that. Booze is fun but it is not the answer.

You know (pulls out corncob pipe, takes sip of iced tea from mason jar, rocks in chair on porch), it really seems that college sports used to be about local, regional rivalries. Then came along the television deregulation, and nobody cared about their neighbors anymore. It became about racking up frequent flier miles on American Airlines for that television buck.

Let's face it. College sports at the division one level haven't been a leisurely amateur pursuit for a few decades now. UNT, SMU, TCU, UTA playing each other every season would dilute the all encompassing television dollar.

I'm not entirely sure it would help the ever dwindling student crowd who would rather watch their football on television with wifi signal in one hand and underage crappy beer in the other. Poke around a bit, and you'll see this is a problem across college football, even at big SEC schools where they traditionally held student lotteries for the privilege of buying football tickets.

But ideally, yes, it would be pretty sweet to have three games against local teams each year. I personally would really like it.

NOW GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN!

[PlummMeanGreen]

I feel sorry for SMU football in a way because I can remember when it was the only game in town (except the Dallas Eagles baseball team) and how fun it was to go to the House that Doak Built and see good college football in a great atmosphere. That was then, however, and this is now. No matter what aspirations it has these days, SMU can't continue to ignore and attempt to manipulate basic mathematics forever. The Mustangs lost their Dallas fan base years ago to the pros and are not likely to regain it with the snobbery and pretense that leads to calling tailgating "Boulevarding" while building more and more luxury suites in an apparent attempt to have more fans in sky boxes than in the stands. Such a topsy-turvy perversion must eventually collapse upon itself.

UNT, SMU, TCU and UTA (basketball etc.) should play each other through some kind of round robin system in major sports every year. Those rivalries would could for college sports in this area, economically sound and a lot of fun. If, however, self centered attitudes prevail over the common good, those selfish attitudes will eventually reap the whirlwind. Indeed, the last time I attended a game at Ford Stadium it was rather sparse and windblown at that. Booze is fun but it is not the answer.

P.O.S. will keep this from happening to its fullest extent, ragpicker. P.O.S.? Pecking Order Syndrome of which our state has the worst epidemic of them all.

X school doesn't want to play Y school because a win by said X school (UNT?) could just about put X school out of the Texas intercollegiate business for just about forever--at least they think it might. LOL! (Of course I exaggerate with the latter part of that sentence).

Look for TCU to drop the SMU football series soon enough just reading a few 'Stang's posts on other forums, TCU is handling this Big 12 membership thing just about the way many of us thought they would---and that the reason why I love it when TCU stays home during the bowl season and North Texas does not! If you want to hear a media TCU homer just listen to Hal Jay of WBAP. I do in the mornings and have to keep a barf bag nearby when he starts in on his Frog'n bits.

TCU? They took us off their football schedule in the 50's when we integrated with Abner Haynes as well as Leon King and then........they for damn sure didn't want to play us during the Mean Joe Greene and Hayden Fry eras, either. You have 3 chances to guess why TCU didn't want to play the Mean Green of North Texas for a period of well over 3 decades and as they say...the first 2 don't count.

GMG!

Edited December 3, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Green Mean]

SMU needs to accept reality and their place in the CFB right now. Not only have they been close to relevant in CFB since the death penalty but it doesn't help that they're a small private school. They need to think about being niche and go after their own alums and students first and build from there. They are not the school of Dallas. DFW is dominated by B12 and even the SEC now so it's always a battle fighting for that place to be included in people's conscience.

This isn't to say they cannot do what Baylor and TCU have done but for now the expectations and mindset need to be realistic. As long as they have money and the donors that are willing to spend they should be ok. Jones hasn't worked out the way they thought but that's ok it happens. I don't see the need to criticize the money they're willing and able to raise for their coaches, that's something I wish we had here at NT.

[untjim1995]

See, to me, June Jones has been the ultimate value for SMU. They brought him here, with a great reputation of rebuilding programs, and paid him money that was half from the school, half from alumni. He turned them around into bowl game regulars from 2009-2012, which they hadn't been since the pre-death penalty. They went from 1-11 in back to back years to a bowl game win in his second year here. He has resurrected their program. Even if they had a bad season this year and even if he eventually leaves after this year or next year, that rebuild has been impressive--something no one could do since they started playing football again in 1989. They are now at a point where a lot of coaches will want that job if it opens up, knowing that they aren't having to build this up from the ashes.

Attendance isn't June Jones fault. Its the market's fault. SMU plays conference games against teams that no one in DFW cares about. They play OOC games against old SWC teams that people care about, but its those teams' fans that populate Ford when they play there. And those games are played in September, when the Cowboys are starting their season and the Rangers (of late) have been making their playoff runs, which isn't even taking into consideration the AQ teams around here that draws 95% of the interest of fans around DFW. But, to me, June Jones has at least given SMU some nice winning seasons that have included some nice bowl games and victories. Their fanbase (all 5000 of them) have fallen into the beartrap of thinking they are on the same path as TCU or Baylor, since they are private schools of similar size, prestige, and tradtition. But those two schools have the local backing that Dallas will NEVER give to SMU, and now they both get the old SWC recipe of hosting powerhouse fanbases every year to build up your attendance numbers and your coffers. SMU will never have what those two schools have. To me, that's what SMU needs to really recognize--just do the best they can on the field, make a bowl game, and challenge for theiur conference title. Accept that this is the best they can do--just like it is for Tulane, Tulsa, Rice, etc...maybe, in a perfect season, you can qualify for a BCS Bowl game, like NIU has the last two years. But they will never compete for a national championship, just like the rest of us that are not in the AQ, especially with the new playoff about to begin. SMU fans are stuck in their SWC mindset, which I don't blame them for one bit--it was a MUCH better world for them when that conference existed, as opposed to where they have been since 1996 in the WAC, CUSA, and AAC. While we would have literally cut off our arms to be included in any of those leagues over the years, their fans just look at those teams as way below what they were used to for all those years. And it couldn't have happened to a more deserving crowd!!

[Baby Arm!]

SMU will never be Dallas' team. It's all a matter of perception and demographics. SMU has the supposed advantage of being located in the heart of a large city with a huge population to draw fans from. However, when you think of SMU what comes to mind? Rich Kid school, Lilly white, Country Club atmosphere. Its an image that endures with the population of Dallas and one that many SMU'ers embrace. Being located in 'the bubble' of the Park Cities helps perpetuate the image. Now look at the demographics of the city of Dallas. It's a majority-minority city now (and has been for some time). Do you think the majority of citizens in Dallas feel welcome on the SMU campus or at their games? Although the "Boulvarding" atmosphere is great, do you think the fraternity boys, soroity girls and the good'ol boy alumni crowd appeal to, or feel welcoming to people outside that socio-economic group?

The Cowboys will always be the area's #1 team, the local colleges have to fight over what's left of the market. SMU has a disadvantage in a small alumni base and target audience that has moved further and further away out of the city. Now residing in Plano, Allen, Flower Mound, Frisco, McKinney, etc.

[meangreendork]

However, when you think of SMU what comes to mind? Rich Kid school, Lilly white, Country Club atmosphere. Its an image that endures with the population of Dallas and one that many SMU'ers embrace.

Too true. Everything from the boulevarding all the way to the band uniforms screams exclusivity to the average Dallas-ite and they likely don't want anything to do with it. Even more if they have a degree not from SMU or no degree at all.

[ragpicker]

So true. I love the idea of the alumni pavilion, but they need to correct some issues. For instance, I went in there prior to the Idaho game. It was hotter in there than outside due to the crowd. I would love to see this expanded and enclosed with air conditioning for the games early in the year when the heat can be brutal and then host post game events with possibly a live call-in show or something. There are many that have worked very hard on making the pavilion a success and I applaud their efforts and the work they have put in, but some changes could make this the place to be before and after each home game.

In the meantime they could at least put an awning over the patio. It is unbearable out there at the beginning of the season.