The Curious Case of Connor Means: Why UNT offered

[NorthTexan95]

I really don't understand why some are so negative about this thread. I think the OP gives some really good insight into Conner and why we shouldn't be discouraged by his poor senior year of high school. I'd bet Conner himself would tell you it's not the senior year he wanted. There's also some great insight into the fact that he may be able to start practicing with us this fall. This is really a great, insightful thread. I don't see anything in this thread that should upset Conner.

[BillySee58]

We're hardly the only forum that criticizes its players. Doesn't mean we don't appreciate the heck out of all of them. But in college football you aren't measured by your sacrifice, you're measured by your production.

[JesseMartin]

Let us not forget that this concept isn't exclusive to football at UNT. We've discussed before the fact that the atmosphere at North Texas lends itself to truly advancing people's development. We are not some exclusive club with access limited to elites who leave the same way. The good become great, and some of us who didn't seem to have much to offer learn that we do have value in this community. While it's true that not everyone sticks around to take full advantage of these opportunities, the constant stream of success stories that flows from our history - including recent history - cannot be ignored. So what I hope any recruit or other future student learns about UNT is that no matter how good or bad things were for you before, if you truly allow yourself to develop your potential to its apogee, North Texas is a place where anything is possible for anyone.

[SSP]

Maybe I should go back and re read the original post, but I didn't see a whole lot of talking crap. Just an interesting discussion on player development, staying coachable, and that past results may not be indicative of future success. I believe there's a lot of truth to that statement. The last thing anyone wants on this board is for a family member to feel like we aren't pulling for their 17-18 year old kid. I think it was a pretty good defense of why we should be very interested in player progression. I think we have a great coaching staff and environment to allow that to happen.

Before you re read it- Read the title. Now read it as if Means was your son. I think it is VERY FOOLISH to negatively and personally criticize recruits on our school's public football forum before February.

You can think and do what you want, but its easy to see nothing wrong with it if you are emotionally detached from the subject.

[UNT90]

Before you re read it- Read the title. Now read it as if Means was your son. I think it is VERY FOOLISH to negatively and personally criticize recruits on our school's public football forum before February.

You can think and do what you want, but its easy to see nothing wrong with it if you are emotionally detached from the subject.

Ever think this bothers you more as a relative than it bothers the actual player?

If bet that is the case in EVERY instance. Questioning a kid who had a questionable senior season in a way as mild as this thread has done is so far from offensive it isn't even funny.

[BillySee58]

Before you re read it- Read the title. Now read it as if Means was your son. I think it is VERY FOOLISH to negatively and personally criticize recruits on our school's public football forum before February.

You can think and do what you want, but its easy to see nothing wrong with it if you are emotionally detached from the subject.

That's the thing, is being emotionally detached. I follow our recruiting very closely and post a lot in the recruiting forum. I've checked Connor's stats but haven't really posted them because they haven't been good. I felt like posting them would lead to this kind of talk and I didn't want that for your exact reason, but this thread is proof that people would notice it sooner or later.

Players and parents read these threads, so we shouldn't say personal things or bash the kids as people and we should say as much positive as we can about their playing abilities. But when people say things negative about their playing ability it shouldn't be taken personally. Especially after bad games or bad personal performances, reading this thread by players or parents is just not a good idea if they tend to take criticism personally.

As someone said earlier, Connor and his parents have watched him play this year and know his stats aren't great. If they come on here they aren't expecting us to ignore his year and pretend that he's been a first-team all-state 5A quarterback.

You can't tell posters to go with the rainbows and unicorns approach only. We should respect, support, and cheer all players. Saying they aren't playing well isn't crossing the line. Saying they are bad kids or anything personal is. There's a line but it's my defined line. I have no family on the team. Just some close friends.

[SSP]

There is a good reason WHY recruits are wined and dined and treated with care on their "official " visits, called, texted, emailed, visted at their homes, etc. Our University is recruiting them to pick OUR school. They are trying to make them know that they are wanted here. Hence.... they still have other options. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

You should also be mindful that THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL (and it is personal) decision for the athlete/ recruit. One that they OFTEN make with their families.

These types of threads serve only the purpose of people analyzing players and situations that in most cases- they know nothing about. If you delude yourself into thinking that even the smallest of things don't weigh a recruits decision to explore options further... go ahead. There are a lot of things that go into this type of decision making and the people who boost and rep our school are always considered.

I don't see anything obnoxious in this post. I get what is trying to be said. But, I am sure Connor and his family wouldn't appreciate negative analysis from alum of the school he committed to. And however you twist it or underhandedly phrase it, thats what this is. In February, we own him and have at it.

I am just saying- be considerate of these things in your phrasing.

Edited November 29, 2013 by SSP

[jtm0097]

We use to bitch because kids wouldn't committ to us. Now we have a kid that committed to us over other programs and people complain. Let the kid get on campus and get to work. I am just happy that we have kids that want to come here now.

[MeanGreenZen]

Dan McCarney is a better talent evaluator than the online recruiting services. But those of you who claim that we don't need highly-rated recruits because Patrick Cobbs and Johnny Quinn weren't highly-rated are wrong. You know who was highly rated? Lance Dunbar, Jamario Thomas, Zach Orr, Jonas Buckles... Yes, you can find some diamonds in the trash like Cobbs and Quinn, but as Darrell Dickey discovered, it is hard to sustain a bowl eligible program by finding guys that other programs didn't notice. I like the higher quality of recruits McCarney is bringing in and know that you don't judge a class on signing day, but overall, the fewer longshots you sign, the better. And just so I am clear, I don't see Means as a longshot. Atleast five FBS programs offered him an engagement ring.

[FirefightnRick]

Dan McCarney is a better talent evaluator than the online recruiting services. But those of you who claim that we don't need highly-rated recruits because Patrick Cobbs and Johnny Quinn weren't highly-rated are wrong.You know who was highly rated? Lance Dunbar, Jamario Thomas, Zach Orr, Jonas Buckles... Yes, you can find some diamonds in the trash like Cobbs and Quinn, but as Darrell Dickey discovered, it is hard to sustain a bowl eligible program by finding guys that other programs didn't notice. I like the higher quality of recruits McCarney is bringing in and know that you don't judge a class on signing day, but overall, the fewer longshots you sign, the better. And just so I am clear, I don't see Means as a longshot. Atleast five FBS programs offered him an engagement ring.

Who has EVER claimed this? If someone has I missed it.

By the way, have we had a Class rank higher than Dodge's highest class? If so let's bring it up so we can stick another fork in Dodge's eye again.

Rick

[BillySee58]

Who has EVER claimed this? If someone has I missed it.

By the way, have we had a Class rank higher than Dodge's highest class? If so let's bring it up so we can stick another fork in Dodge's eye again.

Rick

People say things along those lines all the time. It's an inevitable argument that will always be made in recruiting. Stars matter vs. stars don't matter. Both as individuals and as classes as a whole. Those arguments go on without end and with examples for both cases. Headaches galore.

[FirefightnRick]

People say things along those lines all the time. It's an inevitable argument that will always be made in recruiting. Stars matter vs. stars don't matter. Both as individuals and as classes as a whole. Those arguments go on without end and with examples for both cases. Headaches galore.

I've never seen anyone claim we don't need highly rated recruits. Never. And if they did, its such an illogical claim it wouldn't even be worth mentioning to argue against.

But, now that I think of it, this thread did start by comparing Derrick Thompson's running ability to a high school players passing yards.

So anything is possible I suppose?

Rick

[SSP]

I've never seen anyone claim we don't need highly rated recruits. Never. And if they did, its such an illogical claim it wouldn't even be worth mentioning to argue against.

But, now that I think of it, this thread did start by comparing Derrick Thompson's running ability to a high school players passing yards.

So anything is possible I suppose?

Rick

I hope to finally meet you in Tulsa, Rick?

[FirefightnRick]

I hope to finally meet you in Tulsa, Rick?

Can't make it unfortunately. I'm on duty tomorrow and don't get off till 8 am Saturday morning. Maybe get to shake y'all's hands at the Bowl game or Football Banquet afterwards?

Rick

[SSP]

Can't make it unfortunately. I'm on duty tomorrow and don't get off till 8 am Saturday morning. Maybe get to shake y'all's hands at the Bowl game or Football Banquet afterwards?

Rick

Can't make it unfortunately. I'm on duty tomorrow and don't get off till 8 am Saturday morning. Maybe get to shake y'all's hands at the Bowl game or Football Banquet afterwards?

Rick

Absolutely!

[Mean_Green09]

Recruiting QBs is never an extact science. Here's the thing never get caught with just bringing in one with each class. I think that's how programs get in trouble, by putting all their faith in one guy. Especially if that guy commits to them before his SR season. The SR season is critical in evaluating potential recruits. UT got themselves in trouble by offering guys early and not evaluating all their potential prospects for a SR season.

I think a kid like Means is getting recruiting based on how he projects to develop at the next level. Canales and Mac believe he has the basic tools to be successful in the offense. Believe it or not, but not all kids are recruited based on production. Fans get caught up on production and a kids numbers. They don't look at it like a coach does.

[Harry]

Means had a LOT of D-1 offers and interest from the bigs. He was a nice pickup and we are glad to have him. Guys that are 6-4 with that much arm strength and speed don't grow on trees.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Means had a LOT of D-1 offers and interest from the bigs. He was a nice pickup and we are glad to have him. Guys that are 6-4 with that much arm strength and speed don't grow on trees.

ANSWERED

And Also.....The Best Response!

GMG!

Edited November 29, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

Here is the deal. You have to recruit talented players and then develop those players.

If you recruit talented players, yet fail on the developmental end, you will lose.

If you recruit players that do not have the ability to play at the college level, no amount of development is going to account for a basic lack of talent.

Dodge proved this.

Trilli proved this.

Edited November 29, 2013 by UNT90

[Marty]

As the son & grandson of a coach, I'm sure Means can handle any criticism thrown his way:

[PlummMeanGreen]

It would be very easy to say that more than half of NCAA FBS schools will have to recruit kids that have the basics, ie, fair to good speed and some basic skills of which most of that group (of under 3 stars recruits) will need playing at the college level to develop those skills. 4 words for that group of recruits who need the extra time to develop: Some Will--Some Won't.

Wonder how many NCAA FBS level (D1) All Conference players thru the decades were hardly (if ever) recruited by the Big Boys who annually finish with Top 25 recruited classes? Wonder how many walk-on's in past decades have made All Conference teams with their collegiate football careers, too?

[GrayEagle]

Here is the deal. You have to recruit talented players and then develop those players.

If you recruit talented players, yet fail on the developmental end, you will lose.

If you recruit players that do not have the ability to play at the college level, no amount of development is going to account for a basic lack of talent.

Dodge proved this.

Trilli proved this.

I beg to differ on Trilli. He recruited some of the best talent in our history...

Chris Davis - I believe that he is a NT Hall of Fame member. If he isn't, he should be.

Deginald Erskin - Transferred to UT and was starter.

Kenneth Mangrum - Very productive JC transfer.

Jason Miller - Transferred to Oklahoma State and played significantly.

D.J. Tennell - Led the Metroplex (and I believe the state) in scoring as a senior with more than 30 ppg.

Wes Allen, Unjel Masters, and Calvin Williams were also players of note that Trilli recruited. Trilli's problem was not in getting talent it was in developing it.

I could pretty much say the same for Dodge. He got good talent but he and his high school coaching staff could never utilize it. As a matter of fact, this season's bowl team contained a large number of Dodge recruits.

Edit: Sorry 90, I failed to let the line about recruiting talented players and not developing them sink in and responded to the last sentence only.

Edited November 29, 2013 by GrayEagle

[UNT90]

I beg to differ on Trilli. He recruited some of the best talent in our history...Chris Davis - I believe that he is a NT Hall of Fame member. If he isn't, he should be.Deginald Erskin - Transferred to UT and was starter.Kenneth Mangrum - Very productive JC transfer.Jason Miller - Transferred to Oklahoma State and played significantly.D.J. Tennell - Led the Metroplex (and I believe the state) in scoring as a senior with more than 30 ppg.Wes Allen, Unjel Masters, and Calvin Williams were also players of note that Trilli recruited. Trilli's problem was not in getting talent it was in developing it.I could pretty much say the same for Dodge. He got good talent but he and his high school coaching staff could never utilize it.

Which was exactly my point...

[Mean Green Eagle]

If he ends up being a starter (and maybe a superstar), will we be the Means Greens?

I can't leave you hanging on that one...