Football vs. Library argument popping up again

[JesseMartin]

As you guys may have heard, there is a problem with a budget shortfall for the library ($1.7M). And as always, it's being blamed on funding Apogee, putting the team up in hotels, paying an AD's salary, etc. (luckily not in articles, just by random people).

Why is it that, when discussing higher education and its funding, the least informed people feel the need to shoot their mouths off? Just a heads up to keep your eyes open for other places where uninformed people go on witch hunts. I already threw in a little info in the comments here:

http://oapress.org/saveuntlibrary/2013/11/14/devastating-news-for-the-unt-library/

[UNTexas]

How many people show up to watch a kid do a science experiment?

[UNT90]

As you guys may have heard, there is a problem with a budget shortfall for the library ($1.7M). And as always, it's being blamed on funding Apogee, putting the team up in hotels, paying an AD's salary, etc. (luckily not in articles, just by random people).

Why is it that, when discussing higher education and its funding, the least informed people feel the need to shoot their mouths off? Just a heads up to keep your eyes open for other places where uninformed people go on witch hunts. I already threw in a little info in the comments here:

http://oapress.org/saveuntlibrary/2013/11/14/devastating-news-for-the-unt-library/

I'm sure an editorial with all sorts of misinformation will be published in the NT Daily in the name of free speech.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Winning NCAA FBS football programs have increased donations across the board at most all their respective "schools of" and 'colleges of" academic departments

A Symposium At The Willis" is not going to pull em' in from all corners of northern Texas with check books in hand, but an excited North Texas alum who just had an Apogee Experience most likely will, comparatively.

UNT Library folks are isolating and demonizing the wrong dog on this hunt (if that is what's really going on).

GMG!

PS: To The Willis Library Staff Who Make Us All Proud:

Host one of your potential big donors in one of Apogee's luxury suites on Game Day; ie, a luxury suite (or group of seats) that I'd all but bet a pay check UNT AD Rick V would be more than cooperative with your staff to insure it to happen.

Edited November 14, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[All About UNT]

As you guys may have heard, there is a problem with a budget shortfall for the library ($1.7M). And as always, it's being blamed on funding Apogee, putting the team up in hotels, paying an AD's salary, etc. (luckily not in articles, just by random people).

Why is it that, when discussing higher education and its funding, the least informed people feel the need to shoot their mouths off? Just a heads up to keep your eyes open for other places where uninformed people go on witch hunts. I already threw in a little info in the comments here:

http://oapress.org/saveuntlibrary/2013/11/14/devastating-news-for-the-unt-library/

Saw those comments. My question to them would be exactly how much $ they have contributed to the school since they graduated? Relying on baristas and artists to contribute back to the university has long been a major contributor to the insanely small endowment (and hence budget) of the school

Read about what the Heisman award to RGIII was worth for Baylor http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/2537/how-much-is-winning-heisman-worth (hint...more than all of the hippie contributions ever made to NT)

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

bunch of damn hippies

[KRAM1]

Ignorance is usually the issue with this sort of thing. Happens every so often in the higher ed world. It will be resolved and it will pass. Remember all the Denia crap-ola? Heard much more from those folks lately? Their problem was ignorance as well.

[Mean Green Matt]

How many people show up to watch a kid do a science experiment?

"There are nearly 300,000 NCAA student athletes, most of which are going pro in something other than sports."

[JesseMartin]

UNT Library folks are isolating and demonizing the wrong dog on this hunt (if that is what's really going on).

It isn't the Library people, they're too smart for that. Mostly random students and parents who have no clue. What are we supposed to do...tell everyone who wants to give money to athletics that they aren't allowed to? Or that they have to support something academic first? We need a lot of funding and endowment support. Getting alumni involved with more exposure and visits back to campus will do that...and athletics will always be the biggest draw - not for every person, but for the amalgam. We're finally using athletics for exactly what it's supposed to be used for - visibility and alumni relations. Blaming a state budget issue on a fee/donor/income based budget that doesn't draw from any of the same money pools is ignorant, you're right. But when informed, many of the ignorant ones continue to rant with no basis whatsoever.

[PlummMeanGreen]

It isn't the Library people, they're too smart for that. Mostly random students and parents who have no clue. What are we supposed to do...tell everyone who wants to give money to athletics that they aren't allowed to? Or that they have to support something academic first? We need a lot of funding and endowment support. Getting alumni involved with more exposure and visits back to campus will do that...and athletics will always be the biggest draw - not for every person, but for the amalgam. We're finally using athletics for exactly what it's supposed to be used for - visibility and alumni relations. Blaming a state budget issue on a fee/donor/income based budget that doesn't draw from any of the same money pools is ignorant, you're right. But when informed, many of the ignorant ones continue to rant with no basis whatsoever.

JM, I do agree that North Texas seems to have gotten behind in our endowment coffers fund-raising and I will stop there with no comparisons to other Texas schools vying for Tier 1.

The UNT College of Music for decades seems to be our school's main highly successful bell cow at our main campus in raising monies for their budget and projects so I still say that each of our other departments should try to copy cat them and thus this from the prior post:

To The Willis Library Staff Who Make Us All Proud:

Host one of your potential big donors in one of Apogee's luxury suites on Game Day; ie, a luxury suite (or group of seats) that I'd all but bet a DJ's gig pay check UNT AD Rick V would be more than cooperative with your staff to insure it to happen.

Edited November 14, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

Ignorance is usually the issue with this sort of thing. Happens every so often in the higher ed world. It will be resolved and it will pass. Remember all the Denia crap-ola? Heard much more from those folks lately? Their problem was ignorance as well.

Apparently you missed the phantom natural gas smell reported by a Denia resident the day of the homecoming bonfire and her fear that the leak would blow up her neighborhood.

Guess what was never found? A gas leak or even the faintest smell of natural gas that she (and she alone) had detected.

They are still out there. Just resorting to more desperate tactics.

Edited November 15, 2013 by UNT90

[UNTexas]

"There are nearly 300,000 NCAA student athletes, most of which are going pro in something other than sports."

I hear ya but no one honestly cares about the athletes after their eligibility is up. That's reality. Athletics is a business. A lot of folks make money off athletics. The university couldn't buy the advertising winning programs produce. (Unless of course you are Ivy league or something comparable.)

[Danish43]

Winning NCAA FBS football programs have increased donations across the board at most all their respective "schools of" and 'colleges of" academic departments

A Symposium At The Willis" is not going to pull em' in from all corners of northern Texas with check books in hand, but an excited North Texas alum who just had an Apogee Experience most likely will, comparatively.

UNT Library folks are isolating and demonizing the wrong dog on this hunt (if that is what's really going on).

GMG!

PS: To The Willis Library Staff Who Make Us All Proud:

Host one of your potential big donors in one of Apogee's luxury suites on Game Day; ie, a luxury suite (or group of seats) that I'd all but bet a pay check UNT AD Rick V would be more than cooperative with your staff to insure it to happen.

Plum: You need to post this on the thread that Jesse provided. I posted my opinion.

Alex T.

[laxtonto]

maybe I shouldn't have posted.. but I guarantee I get hate mail for what I wrote if they post it at all

[Christopher Walker]

To clarify something, this isn't a budget shortfall, but enforcement of some rule (from where no one has yet to explain) of the salaries/benefits of Libraries staff coming from student fees. And for added measure, the Athletics student services fee is about $10, the Libraries is something in the $160s.

Now, I'm super on the side of the Libraries in this fight, but I hate the spread of ignorance and misinformation.

[laxtonto]

To clarify something, this isn't a budget shortfall, but enforcement of some rule (from where no one has yet to explain) of the salaries/benefits of Libraries staff coming from student fees. And for added measure, the Athletics student services fee is about $10, the Libraries is something in the $160s.

Now, I'm super on the side of the Libraries in this fight, but I hate the spread of ignorance and misinformation.

Its called they have been exploiting a loophole that has been pushing the benefits packages of the library staff onto the general fund as UNT service employees instead of paying it themselves.

That's called exploitation and entitlement not altruism. They got their hand caught in the cookie jar and instead of shrinking staff positions they want to cut services

[JesseMartin]

A funny aside...the knowledgeable people and intelligent contributions are all coming from supporters of our athletics programs. The "anyone who knows what is going on can tell I don't know what I'm talking about" people are the ones pointing fingers at everything from the donors to the business building and union to the team and sports in general.

[TheFranchise]

I chimed in, too. It's still awaiting moderation, apparently.

[All About UNT]

The Facebook Page for it is full or tardos and stoops. https://www.facebook.com/saveuntlibrary

"This is outrageous. Millions spent on a bad football team, and "words" about becoming a Tier I Research University, and they are planning financially devastating cuts to the LIBRARY????"- from a Music Prof

"Cut down on the sports and support real education University of North Texas!! Save the UNT Library I worked and studied at Willis library, the library system was a huge part of my education. The periodicals, even the bound ones, I always found something new. Every time I worked in the stacks I'd have to check out a few new finds. even..UNT Squirrels"

"It needs to be apples to apples. If the state/UNT cant fund the library or its employees, it shouldn't fund football or its coaches. Football should be able to stand on its revenue generation ability. Not picking on FB, but the irony of this and the new 'whale tail' stadium makes UNT look lopsided in it's priorities. Please post the applicable law that prevents universities from funding library employees."

[meangreener]

I feel compelled to discuss this, as an English major. I did the best I could to dispel some of the lies and misinformation. This is outrageous, however. The Union was the problem. Very deceptive practices by the administration. We have crumbling buildings for things we excel in, and the best Library Science program in the country. Unacceptable.

Edited November 15, 2013 by meangreener

[adman]

I feel compelled to discuss this, as an English major. I did the best I could to dispel some of the lies and misinformation. This is outrageous, however. The Union was the problem. Very deceptive practices by the administration. We have crumbling buildings for things we excel in, and the best Library Science program in the country. Unacceptable.

For those of us that haven't been a student since before 9/11 could you expound on those crumbling buildings? I feel like I've seen improvements via online and in passing on my way to the library football games on Saturdays. (i.e. Biz Admin, Sciences building etc)

[MeanGreenWithEnvy]

There are level heads calmly discussing the differences in funding models and that is what I would encourage anyone here who jumps into the discussion to do. Calling people who are fired up about the administration kneecapping the library "hippies" and "baristas" and other meant-to-be-demeaning terms is counterproductive.

This is a great opportunity to educate people about the differences between athletic funding and academic funding and how the "football versus academic" us-against-them is a foolish strawman.

If you love your alma mater, you need to be furious about this Budget Office decision.

[TheFranchise]

For those of us that haven't been a student since before 9/11 could you expound on those crumbling buildings? I feel like I've seen improvements via online and in passing on my way to the library football games on Saturdays. (i.e. Biz Admin, Sciences building etc)

The old Student Union building is crumbling . . .

[meangreener]

For those of us that haven't been a student since before 9/11 could you expound on those crumbling buildings? I feel like I've seen improvements via online and in passing on my way to the library football games on Saturdays. (i.e. Biz Admin, Sciences building etc)

The Auditorium building is decrepit. There is a condemned basement that is shut off. The Art building is falling apart. The AC doesn't work in half of the music buildings. One of the Biology buildings is falling apart. Off the top of my head.

[MeanGreenWithEnvy]

That's called exploitation and entitlement not altruism. They got their hand caught in the cookie jar and instead of shrinking staff positions they want to cut services

You want to cut $1.7 million annually in staff positions from the library? What are we going to staff it with, student workers?