Here's what worries me about UTSA

[correcamino]

Our four straight "little Sun Belt titles" may not be as impressive as the other years. Point is that in football alone we have what, 25 conference championships, including the MVC when we were with Louisville and Cincy. Our admin also crapped on us back in the day and let Hayden Fry go to Iowa soon before letting us go to I-AA, which is why we had to move back through the purgatory of the Big West and Sun Belt. Otherwise, the last 35 years would have been a lot more impressive.

The point is that I have been saying all along that UTSA will be a bigger test than most others expected, and true, our history doesn't affect this one game...and you seem to have skipped over all the times I've said that UTSA will be pretty formidable very quickly. My agreement with the historical comparison was in response not to pride in programs, which doesn't require 100 years, but to the naysayers who think/say things like "little Sun Belt titles". This is where the disconnect occurs. I don't see how anyone from UTSA can put down our conference championships and 4 dozen winning seasons until there is more oomph down there.

UNT90 and others hate this but...location, location, location. I actually think the UCF/USF comparison is pretty valid. Like I said, I do expect UTSA to come along quickly like those schools rather than the road that has befallen FIU. But to say that being in the same conference means that UTSA is "exactly where" UNT is, well, that's not quite accurate. Where I think you'll agree is that the CUSA FBS classification will help in areas that my fellow alumni have joked about. The fountain, the stadium, basically all donations and alumni support will increase. And when that happens, I do think UTSA will be a lot closer to where UNT is.

These next few years will vault UTSA pretty far, not just in football but in alumni retention and similar areas, and if conference alignments remain the same I think a lot of people who hate it right now will eventually like having the Runners as conference mates. And by that time, UTSA will likely have a few signature wins and maybe even a run or two at conference championships that will certainly make it seem like more than just "a good season by a start-up".

As far as superiority this year goes...well, the teams can meet on the field as far as this one game goes but to think that UNT doesn't have an overall program edge for the next couple years is, again, silly. But UTSA is moving quickly. I'm not assuming that we won't be close to parity soon. With the marketing and momentum that we would love to have, UTSA is going to be an awesome mid-major for us to play, like the other CUSA teams as well as our recent MAC foes.

And I do love San Antonio, which is another big reason I've been pulling for UTSA to do well. Except when they play us, of course. Once we move back, any excuse to go to San Antone is a good one.

Agree with most of your post but still not seeing the superiority thing.

You seem like a pretty reasonable guy so I'm asking in a respectful way--elaborate on how exactly UNT is clearly superior? Especially if UTSA wins on 11/23. The way I see it is, we are in the same conference and recruit the same level of players. You have more history and tradition no doubt, but you're still in the same place as us. The fact that you took longer to reach this point shouldn't and doesn't make you the better program imo.

The problem is that a lot of UTSA posters drop hints that they're better than they are. Little Sun Belt championships as if to say the Big XII is in UTSA's immediate future. The problem is that most of them were/are UT-Austin fans that have seen UTSA move from playing Division III schools to being part of an FBS conference in a short period of time.

What they don't realize is they've hit the ceiling, at least for the foreseeable future. I'm sure plenty of Longhorn and Aggie fans would take the same smug attitude about winning a Conference USA championship, but you can be sure that if North Texas wins it this year, the trophy will go right next to what we earned in the Sun Belt.

You won't find a single post of mine that claims UTSA is on another level than UNT. Most of us know what we are and where we stand in the college football landscape. I do think we are both in a better conference than the Sunbelt though (despite recent down years from C-USA) which is why I don't think those Belt titles are all that. They're something to be proud of and enjoy sure, but not something that matters in this conference or puts you above conference mates.

Edited November 14, 2013 by correcamino

[JesseMartin]

Agree with most of your post but still not seeing the superiority thing.

You seem like a pretty reasonable guy so I'm asking in a respectful way--elaborate on how exactly UNT is clearly superior? Especially if UTSA wins on 11/23. The way I see it is, we are in the same conference and recruit the same level of players. You have more history and tradition no doubt, but you're still in the same place as us. The fact that you took longer to reach this point shouldn't and doesn't make you the better program imo.

Of course we were ahead of our current trajectory before being pulled back by our own admin before, but for the time being, not referring to the game but just the programs in general, we have a slight edge due to a little bit more name recognition, long standing alumni ties, donors, facilities and such. Plus having many alums playing, coaching, etc. gives a little bit of edge. But we're no UT/OU/etc., so again, if UTSA goes the way of UCF we can expect a pretty level field in terms of overall program strength soon. Especially if the wins keep coming on both sides. I like the possibility of an in-state rivalry between teams in 2 of the coolest cities in the USA.

[greenit]

You still don't understand. It would not matter if you were 10-0 right now. Come in, sit down, shut up, work your ass off. In a couple of years, you will GET there. However, you will not START there.

Results will eventually translate into respect.

So far so good. Keep up the good work.

[UNT90]

Crickets.....

[Greenrex]

I can only dream of someday starting a post that causes 28 pages of responses.

[warcat]

I read the last several posts, and I think what I'm hearing is that UNT claims to have a better overall program (due to alumni donations, stadium on campus, etc., etc.)... I tend to agree on those points. However, bear in mind that UTSA does have a brand new practice facility on campus, along with playing at what can still be considered an excellent venue at the Alamadome.

All that is fine and dandy... UNT may have an edge in overall program quality (so far). My point is... who cares?? I mean really? woohoo, have a cookie and some fruit punch and smile over that edge.

All I care about is who has the better team with the better day on the field on the 23rd. IF the discussion moves along from overall program quality to overall 2013 team quality.... well then I'd say hell yes. Hell yes these two teams are pretty dang close to each other.... and as I have predicted, those of you who think otherwise will be surprised and very displeased with what happens on the field on November 23rd.

Win or lose (I personally think we'll win...in a very close, hard fought game), we will collectively extend our hand to thank UNT. Why? Well, let me try to explain. The UTSA team does not view anything it has been blessed with as an entitlement. We know we are very blessed to be in the position we are in. What we see in each game... scratch that, on each PLAY is an opportunity. An opportunity to show what the team has worked so hard for day in and day out throughout each year of its existence... An opportunity to be on the same field, play with, and beat teams that we grew up knowing about... An opportunity to prove to others, and to prove to ourselves, that we are not "too small, or too slow, or too whatever" to be a Division I football player. An opportunity to "shock the world" so to speak. The vast majority of our team would not have the opportunities presented to them had USTA football not existed, or had they chosen to compete for a position elsewhere (all our starters have started or had significant playing time since the day they walked into the first practice).

On the 23rd, the opportunities will abound. All kinds of personal opportunities play in, and play out... and huge opportunities should the collective sum of the team effort yield a win. Life is all about opportunities, and this particular game is filled with them. You can bet that our boys will be chomping at the bit to "get theirs" on each an every opportunity that presents itself.

We may win, or we may lose... but what you'll see on that field will assure you, UNT fan, that this team exerts more effort than any other opponent you've faced. Be that as it may, most of you will still hate on us (especially if we beat you)... but just maybe, a small percentage of you will see the fire this team has, and yes... maybe, we'll earn your respect.

Edited November 14, 2013 by warcat

[EagleGreen]

We may win, or we may lose... but what you'll see on that field will assure you, UNT fan, that this team exerts more effort than any other opponent you've faced. Be that as it may, most of you will still hate on us (especially if we beat you)... but just maybe, a small percentage of you will see the fire this team has, and yes... maybe, we'll earn your respect.

Well, you had me until "[uSTA] exerts more effort than any other opponent [we've] faced." That was a stupid comment. I have Georgia on my mind.

[warcat]

Well, you had me until "[uSTA] exerts more effort than any other opponent [we've] faced." That was a stupid comment. I have Georgia on my mind.

I stand by that. Georgia may have superior athletes... but with that comes a sense of entitlement... and yes, taking plays off.

If I had to guess, I'd bet that Georgia exerted the least amount of effort of any team you've faced all season... save for maybe those teams that gave up before the first snap.

Edited November 14, 2013 by warcat

[UNTFan23]

We may win, or we may lose... but what you'll see on that field will assure you, UNT fan, that this team exerts more effort than any other opponent you've faced. Be that as it may, most of you will still hate on us (especially if we beat you)... but just maybe, a small percentage of you will see the fire this team has, and yes... maybe, we'll earn your respect.

Is it the 23rd of November yet?

Many of us will be too busy trying to figure out whether North Texas will be hosting the CUSA conference championship or not if we beat you next Saturday. Then there is the bowl dilemma -- where are we going to be playing in December/January -- Memphis or Dallas? So much to think about.

[oldguystudent]

I stand by that. Georgia may have superior athletes... but with that comes a sense of entitlement... and yes, taking plays off.

If I had to guess, I'd bet that Georgia exerted the least amount of effort of any team you've faced all season... save for maybe those teams that gave up before the first snap.

On effort, I've seen six games in person this year. In each of those six games, I've seen the opponents come out frothing at the mouth, ready to kick in some teeth. Some of them did hit us pretty hard in the first half.

But every last on of those six opposing teams came out of the tunnel for the start of the second half with a visible look of fear in their eyes, exuding the sentiment of, "Oh crap. We gotta get hit by these guys for another half?"

Opposing teams have gained some big plays on our defense. They have scored on our defense. But every time, our defense has made them hurt for it.

By the time the second half rolls around, those frothing at the mouth, teeth kicking players have all look tentative, scared even. I can recall at least one play in each of the last six games in which an opposing player has been left twitching on the turf, requiring assistance off the field. Teammates see that, and they become a little less likely to try to force plays up the middle; the quarterback keepers become scarce.

Our defense is fast, strong, and it hits hard. Moreover, they are in amazing shape endurance-wise. Very much to the contrary of UNT teams of past years, these guys seem to gain energy as the game wears on. They're not flashy. They don't aim for ESPN highlight reels (although they often end up there). No. They just wear down the opposition until they are shells of resignation.

Maybe UTSA will be different. Maybe they've got that intangible something that will make the hits hurt less, the time on the field less tiring. Maybe, but from what I've seen, unlikely.

[Rudy]

UNT diddled itself in obscurity for 90 years.

[Rudy]

Don't knock getting laid at Comic Con...some of those booth girls are pretty hot.

Not knocking them, just saying that's a foolproof way.

Feel free to explain how being older automatically makes you better.

Insert Viagra commercial here.

"You're at the age where you know how to get stuff done."

[UNT90]

Interesting choice of words by a Roadkill fan.

Please, tell me what you did to "earn a seat at the table?"

I'm waiting.

Still waiting, Camino Roadkill. Edited November 14, 2013 by UNT90

[MeanMag]

I read the last several posts, and I think what I'm hearing is that UNT claims to have a better overall program (due to alumni donations, stadium on campus, etc., etc.)... I tend to agree on those points. However, bear in mind that UTSA does have a brand new practice facility on campus, along with playing at what can still be considered an excellent venue at the Alamadome.

All that is fine and dandy... UNT may have an edge in overall program quality (so far). My point is... who cares?? I mean really? woohoo, have a cookie and some fruit punch and smile over that edge.

All I care about is who has the better team with the better day on the field on the 23rd. IF the discussion moves along from overall program quality to overall 2013 team quality.... well then I'd say hell yes. Hell yes these two teams are pretty dang close to each other.... and as I have predicted, those of you who think otherwise will be surprised and very displeased with what happens on the field on November 23rd.

Win or lose (I personally think we'll win...in a very close, hard fought game), we will collectively extend our hand to thank UNT. Why? Well, let me try to explain. The UTSA team does not view anything it has been blessed with as an entitlement. We know we are very blessed to be in the position we are in. What we see in each game... scratch that, on each PLAY is an opportunity. An opportunity to show what the team has worked so hard for day in and day out throughout each year of its existence... An opportunity to be on the same field, play with, and beat teams that we grew up knowing about... An opportunity to prove to others, and to prove to ourselves, that we are not "too small, or too slow, or too whatever" to be a Division I football player. An opportunity to "shock the world" so to speak. The vast majority of our team would not have the opportunities presented to them had USTA football not existed, or had they chosen to compete for a position elsewhere (all our starters have started or had significant playing time since the day they walked into the first practice).

On the 23rd, the opportunities will abound. All kinds of personal opportunities play in, and play out... and huge opportunities should the collective sum of the team effort yield a win. Life is all about opportunities, and this particular game is filled with them. You can bet that our boys will be chomping at the bit to "get theirs" on each an every opportunity that presents itself.

We may win, or we may lose... but what you'll see on that field will assure you, UNT fan, that this team exerts more effort than any other opponent you've faced. Be that as it may, most of you will still hate on us (especially if we beat you)... but just maybe, a small percentage of you will see the fire this team has, and yes... maybe, we'll earn your respect.

Yawn.

Your team is not different from any other team we've played. All expect to win, and only one can.

All of the stuff you said is redundant. We already know your guys will play hard. They should have their schollys taken away otherwise.

Maybe you can throw out some more generic sports talk about beating us into submission with intangibles.

[warcat]

Yawn.

Your team is not different from any other team we've played. All expect to win, and only one can.

All of the stuff you said is redundant. We already know your guys will play hard. They should have their schollys taken away otherwise.

Maybe you can throw out some more generic sports talk about beating us into submission with intangibles.

Ok. You win. Sorry to bore you.

[UNT90]

Why do UTSA fans feel the need to continually justify their football team?

Maybe because the justification is needed?

[greenit]

I read the last several posts, and I think what I'm hearing is that UNT claims to have a better overall program (due to alumni donations, stadium on campus, etc., etc.)... I tend to agree on those points. However, bear in mind that UTSA does have a brand new practice facility on campus, along with playing at what can still be considered an excellent venue at the Alamadome.

All that is fine and dandy... UNT may have an edge in overall program quality (so far). My point is... who cares?? I mean really? woohoo, have a cookie and some fruit punch and smile over that edge.

All I care about is who has the better team with the better day on the field on the 23rd. IF the discussion moves along from overall program quality to overall 2013 team quality.... well then I'd say hell yes. Hell yes these two teams are pretty dang close to each other.... and as I have predicted, those of you who think otherwise will be surprised and very displeased with what happens on the field on November 23rd.

Win or lose (I personally think we'll win...in a very close, hard fought game), we will collectively extend our hand to thank UNT. Why? Well, let me try to explain. The UTSA team does not view anything it has been blessed with as an entitlement. We know we are very blessed to be in the position we are in. What we see in each game... scratch that, on each PLAY is an opportunity. An opportunity to show what the team has worked so hard for day in and day out throughout each year of its existence... An opportunity to be on the same field, play with, and beat teams that we grew up knowing about... An opportunity to prove to others, and to prove to ourselves, that we are not "too small, or too slow, or too whatever" to be a Division I football player. An opportunity to "shock the world" so to speak. The vast majority of our team would not have the opportunities presented to them had USTA football not existed, or had they chosen to compete for a position elsewhere (all our starters have started or had significant playing time since the day they walked into the first practice).

On the 23rd, the opportunities will abound. All kinds of personal opportunities play in, and play out... and huge opportunities should the collective sum of the team effort yield a win. Life is all about opportunities, and this particular game is filled with them. You can bet that our boys will be chomping at the bit to "get theirs" on each an every opportunity that presents itself.

We may win, or we may lose... but what you'll see on that field will assure you, UNT fan, that this team exerts more effort than any other opponent you've faced. Be that as it may, most of you will still hate on us (especially if we beat you)... but just maybe, a small percentage of you will see the fire this team has, and yes... maybe, we'll earn your respect.

Lot of interesting points here. Thank you for posting.

Now go get your F'in shine box!

[UTSAMarineVet09]

So on average, you have beaten just1 team with a winning record every year...

[pastorgrant]

I will come on here and eat my crow if UNT doesn't win by at least 10. If UNT loses, I will wear orange and blue for a picture and post it to my facebook with the caption "UTSA is the king of CUSA"

[ColoradoEagle]

So on average, you have beaten just1 team with a winning record every year...

A lot of times, it just depends on who was played. In 2003, every single one of our 9 wins was against a team with a losing record. 7 out of 8 wins in 2002 were against teams with losing records, and Cincinnati ended the season on a bowl loss to us, making them 7-7. Out of the two years, we had 9 chances outside of Cincinnati at teams with winning records. Arizona (4-8) and Air Force (7-5) were arguably games that should have been won. The other 7 opponents combined for a record of 70-19.

Same as this year, we cannot control the records of UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss, etc. UTSA is currently averaging half a win against winning FBS competition per year.

Edited November 14, 2013 by ColoradoEagle

[warcat]

A lot of times, it just depends on who was played. In 2003, every single one of our 9 wins was against a team with a losing record. 7 out of 8 wins in 2002 were against teams with losing records, and Cincinnati ended the season on a bowl loss to us, making them 7-7. Out of the two years, we had 9 chances outside of Cincinnati at teams with winning records. Arizona (4-8) and Air Force (7-5) were arguably games that should have been won. The other 7 opponents combined for a record of 70-19.

Same as this year, we cannot control the records of UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss, etc. UTSA is currently averaging half a win against winning FBS competition per year.

We never made this a point of contention.

Ya'll were the ones that brought it up to somehow insult us... As it turns out, it looks like it was more of a self inflicted insult on your own program. No worries, we won't pour salt on it... friendly fire happens.

[UNT90]

Since Camino has no answer for how UTSA "earned it's seat at the table," lets open it up to all UTSA fans.

Give it a go.

Can't wait to hear this.

[ColoradoEagle]

We never made this a point of contention.

Ya'll were the ones that brought it up to somehow insult us... As it turns out, it looks like it was more of a self inflicted insult on your own program. No worries, we won't pour salt on it... friendly fire happens.

It's not a self inflicted insult. Anyone who follows or has followed UNT knows that the history of this program has been to have a few really good years, followed by more than a few really down years. The insult is that for all the talk that UTSA fans like to do about how great their program is, how they deserve to be where they are, and how heads are going to turn, you've won one game against someone with a winning record.

You will win some more in the future, but you're not a big deal, and that's why you're not respected by a majority of this fanbase or any other. If you came at it humbly and more in line with reality, that you're a very young program, you're ecstatic to be a part of CUSA, and the future looks like it could be bright, I don't think you'd run into much resistance outside of the few who truly resent being associated with a startup program. Truth is that your fanbase approaches most situations like this is your training ground for being in the Big XII or SEC in a few years and that no program's history matters because you have none, and it's off-putting.

[MeanGreenTexan]

It's not a self inflicted insult. Anyone who follows or has followed UNT knows that the history of this program has been to have a few really good years, followed by more than a few really down years. The insult is that for all the talk that UTSA fans like to do about how great their program is, how they deserve to be where they are, and how heads are going to turn, you've won one game against someone with a winning record.

You will win some more in the future, but you're not a big deal, and that's why you're not respected by a majority of this fanbase or any other. If you came at it humbly and more in line with reality, that you're a very young program, you're ecstatic to be a part of CUSA, and the future looks like it could be bright, I don't think you'd run into much resistance outside of the few who truly resent being associated with a startup program. Truth is that your fanbase approaches most situations like this is your training ground for being in the Big XII or SEC in a few years and that no program's history matters because you have none, and it's off-putting.

[tommybohama]

Well yeah, sure. But in this instance...

...you kind of brought it upon yourselves.

I wish i had never seen this That is hilarious! I get the reference now and I am inclined to insult my own program as well.

As a proud UTSA alum living in UNT territory, I would like to offer my apologies for some of our overzealous fans. Some of us must have a little too much liquid courage or are just plain delusional. We know that we are a fledgling program and our meteoric rise is the result of hard work and a bit of good fortune. I think we have the potential to be a respectable program, but there is still a long way to go in this journey. I respect the Mean Green and am glad to have them as an conference member. I hope we win on the 23rd but if not I wish UNT the best and hope they win the title.