Official USMNT Rio 2014 Thread

TIgreen01 · July 2, 2014

Everything changed when Altidore got injured. Altidore up top allowed Dempsey and Bradley to play creative and ball control roles. When Dempsey moved up top it left Bradley by himself in this role and that's not enough.

We still struggle for players with that kind of ball control and vision, but then so do all but the top 5-6 teams in the world. If Altidore was healthy we could have had a much better tournament. As it were, the team is so much stronger than 2010. I mean we had Robbie Findley and Ricardo Clark starting last World Cup. Those players had no business being in the team. We are getting better.

Howard is amazing, if you say differently then you don't know soccer.

We've improved our depth. We had good backups at nearly every position. This has never been the case.

The way the team battled back after going down 2-0 in Extra Time was remarkable. We lost with honor. Most teams would have folded at that point.

Someone has to lose. All but one team will, but we got everything from our talent. Many other teams cannot say that.

Good post. Altidore would have made a HUGE difference---specifically yesterday! You're absolutely right, though---our two best ball controlling players are Dempsey and Bradley, and their role changes reduced their effectiveness.

The only thing I'll disagree with is I do not think we are all that deep. Clearly, we couldn't find a way to replace Altidore. We started Brad Davis. Brad Davis. We are REALLY deep at RB, kinda thin in the middle of defense and LB....but we started Brad Davis. He's worse than Robbie Findley was in 2010. Clark had been decent in the years leading up to that 2010 World Cup, but fell out of form the closer we got to that tournament. As out of form as Donovan was, snubbing him in favor of Davis was stupid. I get that Klinnsy wanted to make a bold tone setting lockerroom change, but that didn't need to be it. The combo of Davis and Bedoya contributed very little to the squad. Bedoya had a lousy tournament. He has been billed as a creative threat, but it never materialized in any game. Also, Klinnsy seemed reluctant to put Green on the field to relieve an ineffective Bedoya. It makes you wonder what changes they would have made differently had Donovan been an option on the bench. Granted, I'm sure the staff played through these options leading up to the decision, and maybe they had decided that there was no situation that they would have used him in. Who knows? It's impossible to answer, but I personally think that leaving Donovan home hurt the squad more than it helped. <sorry, that turned into a Donovan rant>

Censored by Laurie · July 2, 2014

I finally was able to bring myself to watching the highlights...I was in a loud bar and half in the bag, but Ian Darke said the flag was up on Wondo's miss...we was 100% onside, but had it been flagged off the goal wouldn't have counted anyway and we'd be 10 times angrier than 4 years ago against Slovenia

Cerebus · July 2, 2014

Also... Do our World Cup allegiances fall with Dirk (Germany) or America proper (Messi Argentina?)

You root for a Argentina v Brazil final because it might actually start a war between those two countries.

Censored by Laurie · July 2, 2014

You root for a Argentina v Brazil final because it might actually start a war between those two countries.

Then we get more Cerebus!

TIgreen01 · July 2, 2014

I finally was able to bring myself to watching the highlights...I was in a loud bar and half in the bag, but Ian Darke said the flag was up on Wondo's miss...we was 100% onside, but had it been flagged off the goal wouldn't have counted anyway and we'd be 10 times angrier than 4 years ago against Slovenia

Thought there was confusion over it, though...as in Ian Darke mis-read the flag waving of the sideline official. How you mis-read that, I don't know....but they did discuss it, if I remember correctly, and they ultimately weren't sure.

Having said that, in the parallel universe where Wondo finishes and the goal is waved off, we are --at this very moment-- at full scale war with Algeria.

Edited July 2, 2014 by TIgreen01

Coffee and TV · July 2, 2014

You root for a Argentina v Brazil final because it might actually start a war between those two countries.

Totally pulling for Costa Rica at this point.

MeanGreenTexan · July 2, 2014

Totally pulling for Costa Rica at this point.

Yep. CONCACAF represent'n.

MeanGreenHoops · July 2, 2014

Still just absolutely gutted.
I feel oh so bad for Wondo. Every soccer player in the world has missed sitters like that...not many have to live with knowing it went a long way to costing his country a world cup win.
The future is bright...get Nagbe, Fagundez...and pretty, pretty please Gedion Zalalem into the system.

also, this is a thing
https://twitter.com/TheSCRLife/status/484331988979949568/photo/1

That twitter thing is greatness. I think Nagbe and Fagundez with both be in the mix. Yes please on Gideon but that one will be tough. One thing good about this tournament was all of the "recruited" guys got to play, even the very young brooks and green. At least when Klinsmann goes to recruit he can say, you will get chance and be able to point to that.

MeanGreenHoops · July 2, 2014

Good post. Altidore would have made a HUGE difference---specifically yesterday! You're absolutely right, though---our two best ball controlling players are Dempsey and Bradley, and their role changes reduced their effectiveness.

The only thing I'll disagree with is I do not think we are all that deep. Clearly, we couldn't find a way to replace Altidore. We started Brad Davis. Brad Davis. We are REALLY deep at RB, kinda thin in the middle of defense and LB....but we started Brad Davis. He's worse than Robbie Findley was in 2010. Clark had been decent in the years leading up to that 2010 World Cup, but fell out of form the closer we got to that tournament. As out of form as Donovan was, snubbing him in favor of Davis was stupid. I get that Klinnsy wanted to make a bold tone setting lockerroom change, but that didn't need to be it. The combo of Davis and Bedoya contributed very little to the squad. Bedoya had a lousy tournament. He has been billed as a creative threat, but it never materialized in any game. Also, Klinnsy seemed reluctant to put Green on the field to relieve an ineffective Bedoya. It makes you wonder what changes they would have made differently had Donovan been an option on the bench. Granted, I'm sure the staff played through these options leading up to the decision, and maybe they had decided that there was no situation that they would have used him in. Who knows? It's impossible to answer, but I personally think that leaving Donovan home hurt the squad more than it helped. <sorry, that turned into a Donovan rant>

My point about being deeper doesn't mean I think we are all that deep. Just the players are better. I'll give you two examples using your examples (if you can follow my twisted brain). I disagree on Findley. I think he had no business being on the team. I consider him a poor man's Eddie Johnson. Very athletic but very little ball control, at least for that level. And Eddie didn't even make the 30.

Ricardo Clark I never liked for the same reasons. Athletic, but prone to bone head mistakes and a very bad first touch of the ball. He's a poor man's Maurice Edu, another guy who didn't make the roster, although in the 30.

Where I really like your points and actually is the problem with the team, is weakness on the wings. Losing Altidore would have been ok, if Zusi and Bedoya would have been able to provide much more. But they couldn't. If we had threats out there, we could have overcome losing Altidore. But Zusi and Bedoya were basically just chasing on defense and losing the ball on offense.

And on Donovan, I refuse to think about it. ; )

MeanGreenHoops · July 2, 2014

Thought there was confusion over it, though...as in Ian Darke mis-read the flag waving of the sideline official. How you mis-read that, I don't know....but they did discuss it, if I remember correctly, and they ultimately weren't sure.

Having said that, in the parallel universe where Wondo finishes and the goal is waved off, we are --at this very moment-- at full scale war with Algeria.

Ive heard both things, that the flag was up and that it wasn't. But this "Having said that, in the parallel universe where Wondo finishes and the goal is waved off, we are --at this very moment-- at full scale war with Algeria." made me laugh out loud. Nice work sir.

TIgreen01 · July 2, 2014

My point about being deeper doesn't mean I think we are all that deep. Just the players are better. I'll give you two examples using your examples (if you can follow my twisted brain). I disagree on Findley. I think he had no business being on the team. I consider him a poor man's Eddie Johnson. Very athletic but very little ball control, at least for that level. And Eddie didn't even make the 30.

Ricardo Clark I never liked for the same reasons. Athletic, but prone to bone head mistakes and a very bad first touch of the ball. He's a poor man's Maurice Edu, another guy who didn't make the roster, although in the 30.

Where I really like your points and actually is the problem with the team, is weakness on the wings. Losing Altidore would have been ok, if Zusi and Bedoya would have been able to provide much more. But they couldn't. If we had threats out there, we could have overcome losing Altidore. But Zusi and Bedoya were basically just chasing on defense and losing the ball on offense.

And on Donovan, I refuse to think about it. ; )

In general, I think it feels like the players are better. I think that part of this is that the MLS has improved (from a number of angles, both in quality of play, TV coverage, attendance, etc) and we've seen several of our top players make big time impacts overseas. Mostly, though, I think this mostly boils down to the fact that the television coverage for soccer in America is at unprecedented levels. I can now watch every single EPL game from my living room. I can watch 2-3 Bundesliga and La Liga matches every weekend, as well. The MLS finally has a somewhat viable media package (MLS Live is great if you are trying to watch FCD with our terrible TV deal; but it also lets me watch every game in the league live or on replay). So basically, I think it boils down to familiarity with the players....at least that's my impression.

On Findley: does he make the 2010 roster if Charlie Davies never gets in that horrific car accident?

I am no Ricardo Clark fan. Dang you for tricking me into defending him! :blink: :pinch:

Cerebus · July 2, 2014

The biggest recent news is that US Soccer has now realized that putting players into NCAA soccer, when their world counterparts are becoming professionals, seriously stunts young player development.

In most of the world, a 16 year old kid who is a promising futbol player is a professional. He isn't going to class, he isn't being coached by high school coaches who also teach history, he is a professional concentrating on working with other professionals.

It's a big difference and the new developments will pay dividends.

Also kids playing FIFA is huge, they know and understand so many top teams and players. That familiarity creates interest and excitement.

Coffee and TV · July 2, 2014

The biggest recent news is that US Soccer has now realized that putting players into NCAA soccer, when their world counterparts are becoming professionals, seriously stunts young player development.

In most of the world, a 16 year old kid who is a promising futbol player is a professional. He isn't going to class, he isn't being coached by high school coaches who also teach history, he is a professional concentrating on working with other professionals.

It's a big difference and the new developments will pay dividends.

Also kids playing FIFA is huge, they know and understand so many top teams and players. That familiarity creates interest and excitement.

The MLS Academies will change this, but I don't know one way or the other if NCAA is hurting or helping. You look at a player like Dempsey who went to Furman, or you can look at a player like Brian Leyva who was a homegrown for FCD and signed at 17 or 18. He was cut after 1 year, can't play in college on scholarship, and is now in the NPSL.

MeanGreenHoops · July 2, 2014

On Findley: does he make the 2010 roster if Charlie Davies never gets in that horrific car accident?

Good point and no, but I would have rather had Brian Ching than Findley. My point is that guys who have can't control the ball have no business playing in the World Cup. Doesn't matter how fast they are. Athletic ability is only helpful if you can control the ball. Works great when you are 12 to kick and chase, not so much against Vincent Kompany.

Edited July 2, 2014 by MeanGreenHoops

MeanGreenHoops · July 2, 2014

The MLS Academies will change this, but I don't know one way or the other if NCAA is hurting or helping. You look at a player like Dempsey who went to Furman, or you can look at a player like Brian Leyva who was a homegrown for FCD and signed at 17 or 18. He was cut after 1 year, can't play in college on scholarship, and is now in the NPSL.

I'm glad you brought this up. While plenty of kids will sign and go pro and then bust, that's just life. What the MLS academies will do though which is important, is fund development. And by fund I mean make it free.

I'll give you an example. My nephew is 11 and is a very good player. But, he has to pay $2K a year to get on a Premier team. If he couldn't afford it, he would waste away playing with the other crap players in his city team. An MLS academy team will allow him to play with other players of his ability or better, and get training from generally good coaches for free. My brother can kind of afford it, but if he couldn't a very talented kid would be lost. He may never work out because he has our family curse of average athletic ability, but he has great ball control and vision. He might be able to get by like a Beckerman if he keeps getting training and challenged.

Those MLS academies allow players with skills to be spotted and signed up without money being a problem. It was pretty eye-opening how expensive it was. It's a very good premier team, but they have coaches, trainers, refs, and facilities to pay for.

Cerebus · July 2, 2014

I think the EPL academies rule books says the earliest the can assign a player is 9.

Third graders. Promising third graders are working with EPL team academies.

MeanGreenHoops · July 2, 2014

So.... As an admitted soccer hatin buttohole... How does a soccer idiot try and keep this Futbol boner going after the World Cup? It's far fetched but I might just be willing to try.
Also... Do our World Cup allegiances fall with Dirk (Germany) or America proper (Messi Argentina?)

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/07/02/bitten-soccer-bug-during-world-cup-here-are-13-ways-take-your-soccer-fandom-

All About UNT · July 2, 2014

too soon??

Green P1 · July 2, 2014

Worse than anything I ever said about the Alamo.

TIgreen01 · July 2, 2014

I think the EPL academies rule books says the earliest the can assign a player is 9.

Third graders. Promising third graders are working with EPL team academies.

A lot of good that's doing them.

greenminer · July 2, 2014

The highest rated Super Bowl had 106.5 million viewers.

The highest rated World Cup final had 715.1 million viewers.

More numbers:

http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/story/1929447/us-soccer-tv-ratings-top-nba-finals-average

Still, Tuesday's knockout game exceeded the average viewership for the most recent World Series and NBA Finals, events that took place during prime-time when more people were home to watch.

The just-concluded NBA Finals where the San Antonio Spurs beat the Miami Heat averaged 15.5 million viewers, with 18 million watching the final game. Last fall's World Series averaged 14.9 million viewers, with 19.2 million watching the Boston Red Sox beat the St. Louis Cardinals in the last game.

Edited July 2, 2014 by greenminer

Coffee and TV · July 3, 2014

A lot of good that's doing them.

Who is them, the EPL? Because they do have loads that come up through the youth system, although those with the bigger clubs find it much harder to break through to the 1st team at 18-21. If them is referring to England then you're correct right now, although I think they'll be a contender for Euro 2016.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Coffee and TV

CMJ · July 3, 2014

So dark.

Coffee and TV · July 3, 2014

Sorry soccer haters.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/02/just-two-2013-college-football-games-topped-usa-belgium-ratings/

forevereagle · July 3, 2014

Sorry soccer haters.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/02/just-two-2013-college-football-games-topped-usa-belgium-ratings/

Just as a little context to this, you are comparing a game with little to no competition from other sports or major television events (no new TV shows of consequence as they have taken a summer break) that is an international, once every four year, event that couples with patriotism and compared it to a sport that has competition from other sports/games within the sport and new episodes from popular TV shows that has a fragmented audience (different fans don't always watch games for other teams they have no interest in) that has a large inventory of games each year. The comparison seems to be a little skewed. Once EPL or MLS start to out draw College Football, then we may be able to make a more fair comparison.

Not saying that the World Cup wasn't a great event and should not have drawn viewers, but I don't think that the TV ratings comparison is a fair one.