Pretty strong statement from McCarney on attendance

[Cerebus]

He's doing a classic Dickey trick--make the team believe they are against the wall with very little help from anyone outside of the locker room.

I know this infuriated a lot of the "MFers" on here, but I never had a problem with it as long as it led to wins. I won't care if Mac does this as long as it leads to wins either.

[untjim1995]

I know this infuriated a lot of the "MFers" on here, but I never had a problem with it as long as it led to wins. I won't care if Mac does this as long as it leads to wins either.

I tend to agree, as well. But Dickey never even apporached Mac in terms of engaging the fanbase, which makes this a bit surprising. But desperation causes lots of unforeseen moves to take place.

Edited October 9, 2013 by untjim1995

[Stan R]

But desperation causes lots of unforeseen moves to take place.

This is what is starting to worry me. A lot.

- Buring Dajon's redshirt

- Calling out fans.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Stan R

[Green P1]

This is what is starting to worry me. A lot.

- Buring Dajon's redshirt

- Calling out fans.

I tend to agree, as well. But Dickey never even apporached Mac in terms of engaging the fanbase, which makes this a bit surprising. But desperation causes lots of unforeseen moves to take place.

What is there to be desperate about? I mean... Outside of actually winning games he's got a mega improved team on his hands!!

[UNT90]

I know this infuriated a lot of the "MFers" on here, but I never had a problem with it as long as it led to wins. I won't care if Mac does this as long as it leads to wins either.

I don't care if he coaches naked and long as we win.

[LongJim]

I did not expect a loss to Tulane, although I warned that game would be dangerous based on what I saw in their game against LaTech.

Otherwise, this team split their OOC schedule, which frankly is as good as I hoped would happen. This season isn't half over and there's the usual angst.

Have no problem with what McCarney said. He's right. Now, obviously he and his team need to deliver, but I sure would like to take inventory after the season's over before roasting the guy alive.

[Travis Scott]

I did not expect a loss to Tulane, although I warned that game would be dangerous based on what I saw in their game against LaTech.

Otherwise, this team split their OOC schedule, which frankly is as good as I hoped would happen. This season isn't half over and there's the usual angst.

Have no problem with what McCarney said. He's right. Now, obviously he and his team need to deliver, but I sure would like to take inventory after the season's over before roasting the guy alive.

^^^^^^^^

This!!!!

[PlummMeanGreen]

Here is my take on 'free ticket.' When we played SMU in '89 (I think it was), there was a sellout. Know why it was a sellout? Because I got with Albertson's and Pizza Hut and had them commit to ads in the Record-Chronicle and NT Daily for 10 days consistently up to game time publicizing the game. They already had ad buys in the paper anyway, and just added the game information to the ad. For their free advertising for the game, we gave them about 3,000 tickets to distribute free to the public. Every time someone walked into Pizza Hut or Albertson's they got a free ticket if they asked. The pizza delivery guys also gave free tickets with their deliveries. Now, were those 'free tickets?'....no, they were purchased by Albertson's and Pizza Hut for their advertising commitment. Anyway, it worked and everyone marveled how we sold out the game. If we had not done that promotion, we would have had a good crowd, but not a sellout crowd. Have you ever seen an empty seat buy a coke or a t-shirt?

Lets break this idea of drex's down a bit more as he posted:

"Here is my take on 'free ticket.'

When we played SMU in '89 (I think it was), there was a sellout. Know why it was a sellout? (drex, that game was played on October 6, 1990)

(1) "Because I got with Albertson's and Pizza Hut and had them commit to ads in the Record-Chronicle and NT Daily for 10 days consistently up to game time publicizing the game. They already had ad buys in the paper anyway, and just added the game information to the ad."

(2) "For their free advertising for the game, we gave them about 3,000 tickets to distribute free to the public. Every time someone walked into Pizza Hut or Albertson's they got a free ticket if they asked. The pizza delivery guys also gave free tickets with their deliveries."

(3) "Now, were those 'free tickets?'....no, they were purchased by Albertson's and Pizza Hut for their advertising commitment. Anyway, it worked and everyone marveled how we sold out the game. If we had not done that promotion, we would have had a good crowd, but not a sellout crowd."

"Have you ever seen an empty seat buy a coke or a t-shirt?"

___________________________________________

On Another Post:

UNTJim1995, you are undoubtedly a great alum and loyal Mean Green fan but I retort your earlier comments with this:

"If we truly had over 4,000 UNT freshmen who were that much into the Bama/TAMU game (and I don't think that group of UNT first year students really were) but "IF" they were........... I think they would all need to meet and have a group conversation with that UNT professor who made one of his students wearing a TAMU t-shirt in his class make a wardrobe change. I sat by an Aggie at the Ball State game who did keep going back and forth to the club to watch that game on the giant screen TV but (again) she had a vested interest in the game...she was a Former Student of TAMU.

The Denton Chamber of Commerce had more at that Fouts Field game against Baylor than showed for our debut game at brand, spanking new Apogee Stadium versus U of Houston. For a 3 months Summer time push of ticket sales, I think they would have done well to have a larger crowd than actually showed for the Idaho game. With more Denton C of C produced fans at the Idaho home season opener, might it be easy to say that many of those same new faces/new fans who had a good time with our "lots of offense" season opening win would have showed for the Ball State game out of further curiosity about all this Mean Green football business? We have to get them started coming to our games somehow, don't we?

I know we can point/counter-point all of this till the cows come home, that is, with everything done (or not done) with our present promotions efforts, but fact remains that you still have to have large group promotions for our annual Mean Green football product (winning season or not) whether we want to or not.

The are just too many other entertainment choices for our 200,000 plus UNT alums in DFW who have obviously chosen other things to do than show up for a first time Apogee experience with many of that group. If we somehow got 5,000 fans out of that group, I think we would have many who would get hooked into the UNT football program just like all of us got hooked at one time, Just my .02 on the subject.

Edited October 10, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I guess I am in the minority. Chalk me up to one that doesn't really understand or care what the big deal is on attendance. We will pretty much have anywhere between 10-20k pretty consistently. Sometimes more, sometimes less. If and when we start winning consistently, we will see a jump.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I guess I am in the minority. Chalk me up to one that doesn't really understand or care what the big deal is on attendance. We will pretty much have anywhere between 10-20k pretty consistently. Sometimes more, sometimes less. If and when we start winning consistently, we will see a jump.

GMG1999, I defer back to McCarney's original concerns on UNT having a much too low attendance no matter what the hell our culture has been. Cultures can change; you know...ask former half century loser Kansas State about that. Ask former truck driving school and ex conference mate Boise State about that; ask lowly TCU of the 60's and 70's and much of the 80's about that. (Had the Frogs not had traveling fans coming to ACS during that span of years, they would have had to start lying about their real butts in seats numbers because having gone to a few of their OOC games with some "free" TCU tickets I can tell you that firsthand and few Froggies from that era would deny it).

This:

We are competing against schools (one whose program is now only 3 years old) who are kicking our butts at the turnstiles. This is hardly a new thing at UNT. Sure we've had some great past crowds at Fouts and now Apogee so it hasn't always been futile, but like any NCAA FBS level HFC would tell you that low attendance can help you lose the kind of recruits that will get Mean Green football out of this malaise we've been in for way too many years--and I'm not just talking about the last 8 losing seasons, either.

IMHO, we have some pretty bright, creative minds on our campus, but they just need to direct all that creativity and energy toward solving our #1 problem with Mean Green football (other than too few wins) and we need to solve this attendance thing once and for all. Why we don't attack this head-on campus-wide beats the hell out of me.

Some will say.......... "but GMG.com posters, UNT alums and MG fans, our staff are working their butts off every day up there now on this attendance thing." One response: Probably and rightfully so, but when we see the Wing Zone half filled or /3/4 filled or 100% filled, then we will know they are working their butts off every day on this matter.

When for most of 25 years I was a sales director in the tech school industry, all I could base our department's success on was...........sales--not woulda's or coulda's or almost sales.

(I still contend that solving our football attendance deficiencies needs to be a campus wide project beginning in the Office of the President (Rawlins) with full support from our BOR's).

What I highlighted of former UNT promotions director "drex's" post above I believe is the kind of thing UTSA did with Kentucky Fried Chicken and others on a much grander scale down in San Antonio. It has paid off remarkably for the Road Runners. What? 30K per game averages of late? How many of us would think we had died and gone to Mean Green heaven with those kind of numbers at Apogee?

What drex and UTSA did was use popular fast food franchise and or businesses to (basically) be the distributors of pre-purchased "free" tickets. Seems a pretty smart way to get tickets in the hands of more fans to me without having to have your entire department trying to do it. To get 2,500 butts in seats, you'd probaby have to distribute at least 4 or 5 X's that total for a given Game Day.

No, not everyone is going to use their "free" ticket, but what you put on that ticket can even help for future games like.............some kind of food discount when you bring one of the North Texas Game Day mini-football program pages from within that program back to said store for their discount for starters? Any number of things you could put on that "free" Mean Green football ticket to help you keep promoting your product whether that ticket was used or not.

PLUS...........It's hardly that North Texas is some school with an under 10K enrollment out in the middle of nowhere that has very sparse population, either; matter a fact, our situation is the complete opposite of that. What we lack now with Big Donors, we need to overcome by using something just as important, ie, our enormous population resource and to start using that (even more important resource) much better than we ever have.

In sales, we always said "it's a numbers game" well..........we need to get into the NCAA FBS attendance game with the numbers we already have. We'll all feel better with its eventual results.

GMG!

Edited October 10, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

Cultures change because you win, Plumm. Bitching about attendance and a poor culture while you are 2-3 (when you should be 3-2 or 4-1 if the person doing the bitching had just gotten out of the way) is just... asinine.

Win some damn football games and THEN bitch your little heart out. At least then you would have a point.

And PLumm, I love ya, but I read as far as the 1st "culture" in your post. Being concise is a wonderful thing.

Edited October 10, 2013 by UNT90

[untjim1995]

I'm sorry, and I know it offends some on this board who proudly wear their Mean Green glasses, but I have never had any luck whatsoever in getting anyone that is not a UNT alum (family or friend) to attend a UNT-Middle Tennessee State game in Denton. Yes, MUTS was a bigger game in the SBC than most of the others, but there is a reason that the actual attendance for this opponent has never been close to 20k. Maybe it would be different if we were winning--it seems that every time MUTS comes to town, we are always holding a losing record, all the way back to 2001. But, the point is that outside of the normal 10k-15k that show up to watch UNT play, its damn near impossible to get anyone excited about this opponent. I asked a friend that is an Iowa grad if he wanted to come to the game this weekend--since he cannot watch his team play in person and McCarney is an Iowa grad--his exact words were, "What time is the game and who are they playing?" When I gave him my answer, he simply said, "Nah, I'll pass." Basically, its the same thing I have dealt with over the last 12 years of trying to get folks to go to watch us play. What's harder is when a UNT alum won't go because he only wants to watch the AQ games on tv. Most people don't know who Middle Tennessee State is, think their name is ridiculous, and don't want to give up 4+ hours of their day for a game involving them. Sure, if we win, maybe that changes...but it certainly didn't change in the early 00's when we were dominating the SBC teams like MUTS. For that matter, we didn't give Hayden Fry's great teams of the 70s any decent attendance, either, when we had our best teams ever. Again, maybe winning today at Apogee will change things. BUt the opponent still drives the attendance at most non-AQ venues and we are not any different than the other non-Big XII SWC leftovers or other non-AQ regional teams in the AAC, CUSA, or SBC.

[TrueBlue147]

I'm sorry, and I know it offends some on this board who proudly wear their Mean Green glasses, but I have never had any luck whatsoever in getting anyone that is not a UNT alum (family or friend) to attend a UNT-Middle Tennessee State game in Denton. Yes, MUTS was a bigger game in the SBC than most of the others, but there is a reason that the actual attendance for this opponent has never been close to 20k. Maybe it would be different if we were winning--it seems that every time MUTS comes to town, we are always holding a losing record, all the way back to 2001. But, the point is that outside of the normal 10k-15k that show up to watch UNT play, its damn near impossible to get anyone excited about this opponent. I asked a friend that is an Iowa grad if he wanted to come to the game this weekend--since he cannot watch his team play in person and McCarney is an Iowa grad--his exact words were, "What time is the game and who are they playing?" When I gave him my answer, he simply said, "Nah, I'll pass." Basically, its the same thing I have dealt with over the last 12 years of trying to get folks to go to watch us play. What's harder is when a UNT alum won't go because he only wants to watch the AQ games on tv. Most people don't know who Middle Tennessee State is, think their name is ridiculous, and don't want to give up 4+ hours of their day for a game involving them. Sure, if we win, maybe that changes...but it certainly didn't change in the early 00's when we were dominating the SBC teams like MUTS. For that matter, we didn't give Hayden Fry's great teams of the 70s any decent attendance, either, when we had our best teams ever. Again, maybe winning today at Apogee will change things. BUt the opponent still drives the attendance at most non-AQ venues and we are not any different than the other non-Big XII SWC leftovers or other non-AQ regional teams in the AAC, CUSA, or SBC.

The same could be said about our fans when it comes to North Texas's unfamiliarity and poor name recognition. So... You're basically saying that nobody cares enough about your team to show up and watch them play? These "no name" teams have been beating you guys pretty consistently over the last few years, so I would at least start beating some of them before you start complaining about their name recognition and how it affects your attendance.

Edited October 10, 2013 by TrueBlue147

[forevereagle]

Cultures change because you win, Plumm. Bitching about attendance and a poor culture while you are 2-3 (when you should be 3-2 or 4-1 if the person doing the bitching had just gotten out of the way) is just... asinine.

Win some damn football games and THEN bitch your little heart out. At least then you would have a point.

And PLumm, I love ya, but I read as far as the 1st "culture" in your post. Being concise is a wonderful thing.

Agree, if we had been winning 8-11 games the last 8 years instead of the other way around, then complain about attendance until you can complain no more. The fact is, as a fan, it is really tough to get kicked in the nuts every week and get excited about the next week. It is also hard to get other alums who have not cared about the program for years to show up when they can just point to the dismal win total and say they don't want to go and see the team lose. I don't like it, but that is our situation. We need to focus on doing things in the correct order.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Cultures change because you win, Plumm. Bitching about attendance and a poor culture while you are 2-3 (when you should be 3-2 or 4-1 if the person doing the bitching had just gotten out of the way) is just... asinine.

Win some damn football games and THEN bitch your little heart out. At least then you would have a point.

And PLumm, I love ya, but I read as far as the 1st "culture" in your post. Being concise is a wonderful thing.

If that's all you read, UNT90. then that means you missed the best part..................the last sentence! :D

GMG!

PS: I will add that SMU's Mustang Mania promotions worked best with large numbers of fans when the Stangs were still losing. It was not SMU AD Russ Potts fault that SMU Slickity Doo Dog HFC Ron Meyer went rogue and on a buying binge for HS talent across the Lone Star State.

Edited October 10, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

The same could be said about our fans when it comes to North Texas's unfamiliarity and poor name recognition. So... You're basically saying that nobody cares enough about your team to show up and watch them play? These "no name" teams have been beating you guys pretty consistently over the last few years, so I would at least start beating some of them before you start complaining about their name recognition and how it affects your attendance.

If you think this is decent smack talk, I think I know why you decided to get a degree from the sparest of directionally-named schools in the country. Seriously, your school's name is a complete joke. Being Central Tennessee State would be bad enough, but instead, your school went with the term "Middle". That's a great way to really be taken seriously outside of Nashville.

If you think that me complaining that my school has been losing for the last 8 years to mostly the dregs of FBS football, including you guys and the other SBCUSA spares, should cease because we have had trouble beating teams like you, then I am not sure what to say. Fans in Texas like to talk about the Big XII and SEC, or at least when Texas teams play each other. When TCU and SMU play each other, it resonates here in DFW. When UH and Rice play, it resonates in Houston. When Baylor and Tech play, it resonates throughout the state. When I shoehorn in that my alma mater, UNT, is playing Middle Tennessee, at best I get indifference, while usually getting laughs at how spare of a game it must be to watch North Texas play Middle Tennessee, especially while Texas is playing OU down the road, or A&M is playing Arkansas. Maybe in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, maybe going to watch a Middle Tennessee State game against North Texas resonates with the "locals". If so, good for you all. My point is simply, that in Denton, Texas, basically the top part of the DFW Metroplex, a North Texas game against Middle Tennessee doesn't move the needle because we have a lot of other sporting options to consider. Its my opinion, that even if we were winning big instead of always losing, a game against Middle Tennessee in Denton will never see a big crowd--because you don't bring anyone here and no one in this area cares about watching y'all play against us. I could care less if the exact situation is the same when we go to your town for a game. I'm not in the least concerned about your program's well-being. Even if you guys are way better than Memphis in football right now, us playing Memphis in Denton would at least get more people to consider coming to a game in Denton than when you all visit us. Again, that's what I'm trying to convey here, that the opponent is what drives attendance at most non-AQs. In the end, that's why having you guys and Western Kentucky in CUSA is better than taking on more FCS move-ups, but it still doesn't help with our biggest issue--having stronger attendance to help increase revenues, the fanbase, and media coverage. Never has a home game against Middle Tennessee even registered a blip on the radar to the citizens or the media members in the DFW Metroplex. Sorry if that offends you, but that's our issue, not necessarily yours.

Edited October 10, 2013 by untjim1995

[oldguystudent]

Just one short year ago, when UNT played at Middle Tennessee, Karl Benson interviewed at half time and completely refused to acknowledge that UNT was playing in the game. Instead, he went on and on for ten minutes about how Middle Tennessee was going to be the flagship school of the new, robust Sun Belt Conference.

Welp, here we are again, playing the Blue Raiders in a conference game, Karl Benson sucking his thumb in the corner with up and coming UT Arlington and it's romper room $78 million basketball arena.

I have nothing bad to say about the Blue Raiders except that UNTJim1995 is correct when he asserts that anyone in the DFW metroplex who is unaware of the rivalry over the past decade really, really, really doesn't care about the game this weekend.

[meangreener]

The same could be said about our fans when it comes to North Texas's unfamiliarity and poor name recognition. So... You're basically saying that nobody cares enough about your team to show up and watch them play? These "no name" teams have been beating you guys pretty consistently over the last few years, so I would at least start beating some of them before you start complaining about their name recognition and how it affects your attendance.

We're also the largest state in the continental US so directional schools being relevant seems logical.

Either way, all I get are chuckles and laughs when I say that we're playing Middle Tennessee State. I mean saying Middle is funny enough but when you add the State...yeah, nobody cares.

[MeanGreenWithEnvy]

Don't know if this has been asked and/or answered before, but can anyone share with us if the Athletic Department does any alumni outreach beyond the Mean Green Club? I don't think I'm taking too much of a liberty by thinking that MGC and season ticket holders are nearly always the same. Does Athletics do microtargeting of alumni beyond MGC? Is there anything along the lines of prospect identification of alumni outside of MGC? Surely the university has that kind of data. I've written before here that targeting isn't rocket science. We can do this and do a good-to-great job of it. I really want to believe this is being done, because if it's not and if all the AD is counting on is MGC and students, that should be a firing offense.

[TrueBlue147]

We're also the largest state in the continental US so directional schools being relevant seems logical.

Either way, all I get are chuckles and laughs when I say that we're playing Middle Tennessee State. I mean saying Middle is funny enough but when you add the State...yeah, nobody cares.

Oh the irony! Were you guys not North Texas State University a short while ago? The names seem pretty close to me. Actually Tennessee has three grand geographical divisions East, West, and Middle. We are located in the Middle hence our name Middle Tennessee State University.

[TrueBlue147]

If you think this is decent smack talk, I think I know why you decided to get a degree from the sparest of directionally-named schools in the country. Seriously, your school's name is a complete joke. Being Central Tennessee State would be bad enough, but instead, your school went with the term "Middle". That's a great way to really be taken seriously outside of Nashville.

If you think that me complaining that my school has been losing for the last 8 years to mostly the dregs of FBS football, including you guys and the other SBCUSA spares, should cease because we have had trouble beating teams like you, then I am not sure what to say. Fans in Texas like to talk about the Big XII and SEC, or at least when Texas teams play each other. When TCU and SMU play each other, it resonates here in DFW. When UH and Rice play, it resonates in Houston. When Baylor and Tech play, it resonates throughout the state. When I shoehorn in that my alma mater, UNT, is playing Middle Tennessee, at best I get indifference, while usually getting laughs at how spare of a game it must be to watch North Texas play Middle Tennessee, especially while Texas is playing OU down the road, or A&M is playing Arkansas. Maybe in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, maybe going to watch a Middle Tennessee State game against North Texas resonates with the "locals". If so, good for you all. My point is simply, that in Denton, Texas, basically the top part of the DFW Metroplex, a North Texas game against Middle Tennessee doesn't move the needle because we have a lot of other sporting options to consider. Its my opinion, that even if we were winning big instead of always losing, a game against Middle Tennessee in Denton will never see a big crowd--because you don't bring anyone here and no one in this area cares about watching y'all play against us. I could care less if the exact situation is the same when we go to your town for a game. I'm not in the least concerned about your program's well-being. Even if you guys are way better than Memphis in football right now, us playing Memphis in Denton would at least get more people to consider coming to a game in Denton than when you all visit us. Again, that's what I'm trying to convey here, that the opponent is what drives attendance at most non-AQs. In the end, that's why having you guys and Western Kentucky in CUSA is better than taking on more FCS move-ups, but it still doesn't help with our biggest issue--having stronger attendance to help increase revenues, the fanbase, and media coverage. Never has a home game against Middle Tennessee even registered a blip on the radar to the citizens or the media members in the DFW Metroplex. Sorry if that offends you, but that's our issue, not necessarily yours.

Not an attempt a smack talk just a comment about your excuse for poor attendance. As far as our name goes please see my response to meangreener on the subject above.

Edited October 11, 2013 by TrueBlue147