Pretty strong statement from McCarney on attendance

[oldguystudent]

I can confidently say that it is a night/day difference of the mentality of the CPC staff between addressing Club members and those in the common masses.

As a monocled man of the people,

[EagleGreen]

You know. Thinking about this now, the CPC security team is probably what upsets me the most.

I've had the extreme privilege of getting to attend three games in Apogee's Club Level, while the rest of the time my wife and I usually bunker it out behind the North goal posts in the Wing... so with these experiences, I can confidently say that it is a night/day difference of the mentality of the CPC staff between addressing Club members and those in the common masses.

What really grinds me up is watching them persecute university staff for doing their damn jobs. At the Ball State game I watched in disbelief as a CPC duo in a golf cart nearly rammed a university van with Verde staff trying to get to the West entrance, eventually holding them up and forcing them to return form whence they came leading to the van getting stuck spinning out on a side of the Hill. In other instances, I've been asked to leave the stadium (ha, yeah right) because I was walking around with the Muscles Glasses McCarney sign or my wife was asked to leave the student section for not having a ticket in that area after the game was over.

This should not be the case; Apogee should be a completely welcoming environment and the CPC crew have often made it anything but.

(Not so) Funny thing about this is that I saw the CPC security stop the UNT Provost from entering the stadium. They didn't know who he was and he showed his ID. They didn't care who he was if he didn't have a ticket. They asked him to step aside. He had to call several folks and one finally brought down a suite pass. I tell you, this is an issue. We can't rush the field, they are rude to the common folk, etc. This, somehow, needs to be addressed.

[JKvsHimself]

Not sure if this is a common thing that CPC do, but I observed them telling a group of students to stop heckling Ball State players during the game.

I just sat there and questioned if the staff member even realized that they were at a football game in the state of Texas.

[Green Dozer]

DANG!

I was hoping there was a change in pricing. But that wouldn't be fair to you guys who got in on the ground floor. Maybe after this first 5 yr commitment timeframe is over the prices will come down a little... a poor guy can dream right?

Sounds fair for the folks who got in on the ground floor ,since they will be paid up, for the prices to then come down at the end of five years. By the way, the stadium donation is not a recurring thing, just the first five years.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Green Dozer

[houstonmeangreen]

(Not so) Funny thing about this is that I saw the CPC security stop the UNT Provost from entering the stadium. They didn't know who he was and he showed his ID. They didn't care who he was if he didn't have a ticket. They asked him to step aside. He had to call several folks and one finally brought down a suite pass. I tell you, this is an issue. We can't rush the field, they are rude to the common folk, etc. This, somehow, needs to be addressed.

I tend to agree...they are total jerks and should be replaced...makes you not want to go to apogee for games.

[houstonmeangreen]

I tend to agree...they are total jerks and should be replaced...makes you not want to go to apogee for games. This is probably one more thing RV will not do anything about!

[meangreener]

Not sure if this is a common thing that CPC do, but I observed them telling a group of students to stop heckling Ball State players during the game.

I just sat there and questioned if the staff member even realized that they were at a football game in the state of Texas.

Yup. They told me and the guys sitting by us to stop heckling. Which they didn't.

Never had that happen before. Once had one start trying to grab me as I walked down into the student section last year and berate all the students sitting there that it wasn't their section. She apparently couldn't read.

Edited October 8, 2013 by meangreener

[GreenMachine]

I feel his frustration and wouldn't be surprised to see Mac end up leaving out if attendance frustration. Sounded like he was in a bad mood. I'm tired of half-full stadiums but it certainly doesn't seem like RV or UNT as a whole cares.

He is 11-18 here at NT. He should be leaving, not on his own accord, due to that alone. I could care less if he is frustrated or not, 11-18 says it all.

[PlummMeanGreen]

On The Record:

Coach Dan McCarney and our ever-improving Mean Green football team deserve the support of so many more fans than just those of us on GMG.com and those of us who show up at Apogee most every game.

Coach McCarney: If we the alums and fans of North Texas could wave the magic wand to make this happen....we would---yet all of this is for the most part out of our hands--always has been matter a fact. We defer this annual attendance dilemma to President Lane Rawlins, his BOR's and AD/Rick V. They are the key players in every bit of this & always have been.

So give us more time, Coach Mac, our entire UNT constituency will get this thing solved hook or crook and the best part of all this is for the first time in a long time I personally like the focus being given this problem because I think a viable plan will now soon follow--probably too late for this Fall but not for 2014.

And..............for the first time in this my 40'th year of following Mean Green football, we have more numbers as listed below with all the various population counts to make things happen at the Apogee Stadium turnstiles so much quicker than any time in our past.
_____________________________________________________________

So What Do You Do With This, Fellow MG fans:

You have 5,000 free tickets to give away "2" weeks or even "2" months before an Apogee Game Day this:.

How do you get started?

How do you get the word out to the masses that there are even 5,000 free tickets available in the first place?

Can you really expect if you got all 5,000 tickets in the hands of those who say they would use these (probably) pre-purchased tickets
that all 5,000 would all show? (That answer is.............no)

So if you want 5,000 fans (lets say) in the Wing Zone, just how many total tickets would you really need
to distribute across Denton and Denton County to get an actual 5,000 butts in seats? SMU's Mustang Mania formula and answer to this question might shock a few.http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/1978/10/01/SPORTS_Is_Mustang_Mania_Horsefeathers.aspx

In all fairness to the UNT Athletic Department (who still don't have the personnel or in-house machinery to pull this kind of free tickets give-away off) it's just not easy to get 5K free tickets out to the general public 2 weeks (or 2 months) before a Game Day and expect any semblance of return.

In the Wedding DJ business, I will ask a Bride-to-be how many invitations were sent out for their wedding. She says 150 and I tell her from my experience in this industry that she will be lucky to get 75 to 80 at best to her Wedding Day. If 150 RSVP''ed then that number could go up 90 to 100. (I don't think that high or percentage a return could be expected for 5,000 free tickets for a college football game).

Again,even a 5,000 "free tickets" give away for 1 game at Apogee should all be planned in the Spring with tickets being distributed to interested groups in the Summer. How do you know they're interested? Well, use your imagination on that one.


Still...one has to ask why we still chokin' on this attendance gnat during this Fall, 2013, football season?

So we will have (maybe) one great crowd this football season and let this discussion be forgotten until the next year?

This (one more time):

Denton County: 800,000
City of Denton....130,000
UNT Enrollment...37,000
DFW UNT alums..Over 200,000 according on one UNT publication.

So Isn't it easy to see why so many of our UNT athletic regimes in decades past have not really wanted to tackle our Last Frontier; that is, the solving of UNT's annual attendance shortfalls with viable planning and much footwork to git'er done?

Chances of failure with this venture are high, now aren't they; but the one(s) who solves this annual problem could in the annals of North Texas athletics history very well reach folk hero status among many of us.
.

Edited October 9, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Aquila_Viridis]

He is 11-18 here at NT. He should be leaving, not on his own accord, due to that alone. I could care less if he is frustrated or not, 11-18 says it all.

Totally agree. Years ago it was evident that if the powers that be at UNT cared about winning, they would organize a campaign to raise the funds to hire a super coach and staff who could win and recruit despite our then humble facilities. They did not do that. Complaining about attendance is a smoke screen, and where there's smoke there's fire. It's plain: people do not want to come when there is a really big chance of seeing 'your' team lose. University of North Texas would be supported by the people of North Texas if those residents thought they would likely be on the winning side by affiliating themselves with the university. It is a classic chicken and egg problem and the only way for the cycle to be broken is for the university leadership to decide to be a winner and take charge of the situation. Instead they sort of keep expecting that some critical mass might rise on its own, and don't even seem to care whether it does or not. We could look at this coach and see that he was not of the caliber needed, and that is because the school raised money for other things. Stop being a loser North Texas, and don't ask me for more money or support. GO and get it from others who are not already contributing. Then use it to pay for a winner. $600K or whatever, I know was a big jump, but it needed to be a lot more. I said it before it was built: that stadium won't do anything without a great coach in it. And the stadium not only does not pay for a coach, it apparently used up all the fundraising mind power the university leadership could muster. ACCEPT the fact that college football is a big reason why colleges are so prominent now and so heavily attended and expensive, and get in the game!

[Rudy]

If you have a complaint with the security staff, start making records of it. The last time we had this issue, I emailed one of their bosses who was not too happy to hear how were were treated.

ie nearly throwing out FFR for tossing a tortilla, which he didn't.

[NM Green]

Coach needs to realize that this is not Ames. Dallas fans have standards and you must win to keep them coming. I still don't understand why we don't have season tickets goals attendance goals every year and this should absolutely be tied to rick's performance plan and evaluation. I swear this university runs like Washington at times. Time for some Mean Green tea.

GMG

[GrandGreen]

I have never understood how bemoaning attendance does anything but perpetuate poor attendance. I know McCarney did it in a good way, but never the less what purpose does it serve? My bet is there is not one person, who heard or read his statement, that says, by golly he is right; I am going to buy a ticket and go. More likely, the few none game going people who read that think: the same old NT, why don't those people give up. Not exactly good marketing.

I read the some variation of the same thing almost every year about NT attendance. Sell beer, advertise more, cheaper seats, band days or the like; none of those things have any long lasting effect.

Building a culture of athletic support is a slow process, but the main ingredient is winning against worthy opponents. A program is not going to win them all, but there has to be a some expectation of a win in a game that matters. This has to be continued for years to establish an enlarged fan group.

NT has been horrible at this, no two wins in a row in how long? The basketball program successfully build up to a new plateau and has the most ballyhooed team in NT history returning and goes cheap and hires a journeyman assistant coach with no hc experience and sets the MBB program back as far as possible in one year. The Dickey's teams have conference success and NT not only doesn't build on it; they allow Dickey to bad mouth the school and effectively bottom the program.

These are missed opportunities in the RV era, but it has gone on long before that. Attendance can be grown, but not by proclamation. There has to be continued improvement and all the gimmicks in the world are not going to replace it.

[jdennis82]

I'd be curious to know how website traffic (both here and at meangreensports.com) serves as a predictor of upcoming event attendance.

I would expect that a dip in attendance could be projected if there's a noticeable dip in weekly traffic on these sites.

[UNT90]

I have never understood how bemoaning attendance does anything but perpetuate poor attendance. I know McCarney did it in a good way, but never the less what purpose does it serve? My bet is there is not one person, who heard or read his statement, that says, by golly he is right; I am going to buy a ticket and go. More likely, the few none game going people who read that think: the same old NT, why don't those people give up. Not exactly good marketing.

I read the some variation of the same thing almost every year about NT attendance. Sell beer, advertise more, cheaper seats, band days or the like; none of those things have any long lasting effect.

Building a culture of athletic support is a slow process, but the main ingredient is winning against worthy opponents. A program is not going to win them all, but there has to be a some expectation of a win in a game that matters. This has to be continued for years to establish an enlarged fan group.

NT has been horrible at this, no two wins in a row in how long? The basketball program successfully build up to a new plateau and has the most ballyhooed team in NT history returning and goes cheap and hires a journeyman assistant coach with no hc experience and sets the MBB program back as far as possible in one year. The Dickey's teams have conference success and NT not only doesn't build on it; they allow Dickey to bad mouth the school and effectively bottom the program.

These are missed opportunities in the RV era, but it has gone on long before that. Attendance can be grown, but not by proclamation. There has to be continued improvement and all the gimmicks in the world are not going to replace it.

Dead on

[PlummMeanGreen]

Dead on

I have never understood how bemoaning attendance does anything but perpetuate poor attendance. I know McCarney did it in a good way, but never the less what purpose does it serve? My bet is there is not one person, who heard or read his statement, that says, by golly he is right; I am going to buy a ticket and go. More likely, the few none game going people who read that think: the same old NT, why don't those people give up. Not exactly good marketing.

I read the some variation of the same thing almost every year about NT attendance. Sell beer, advertise more, cheaper seats, band days or the like; none of those things have any long lasting effect.

Building a culture of athletic support is a slow process, but the main ingredient is winning against worthy opponents. A program is not going to win them all, but there has to be a some expectation of a win in a game that matters. This has to be continued for years to establish an enlarged fan group.

NT has been horrible at this, no two wins in a row in how long? The basketball program successfully build up to a new plateau and has the most ballyhooed team in NT history returning and goes cheap and hires a journeyman assistant coach with no hc experience and sets the MBB program back as far as possible in one year. The Dickey's teams have conference success and NT not only doesn't build on it; they allow Dickey to bad mouth the school and effectively bottom the program.

These are missed opportunities in the RV era, but it has gone on long before that. Attendance can be grown, but not by proclamation. There has to be continued improvement and all the gimmicks in the world are not going to replace it

What does have a long lasting result is when you do nothing concerning a "large groups promotions program." We've seen annual results of that. After all, aren't we going to fill empty seats quicker with large group promotions?

Will We Be Talking About This Same Subject October, 2014, Too?

I feel bad for Coach McCarney and worse....our Mean Green football team and even worse...................we the alums and fans. We would like to change our culture of low attendance up there but.apparently even recent ideas from many of you Young Gun Alums who want to give all this the good ol' college try (along with your voluntary manpower hours) are met with............................................ (can you hear the sound of crickets)?

Our Game Day product is one of a thousand other things people can choose to do any given Game Day. Seems our officials would grow tired of this annual shortfall and now with our empty seats being seen regularly on region wide TV broadcasts from Apogee Stadium. We can no longer hide that fact. Seems UTSA is not doing much hiding of late and their HFC's job will be considered a better job than the North Texas job because of their attendance...... sooner than later. (Do yall know how much that pains me to say such)?

We've done things that worked in the past but for whatever reason we seem hesitant of doing the ones that have succeeded 2 years in a row lest they (God help us)............. work again?

Denton Chamber of Commerce did a superb job one summer,selling tickets for a home season opener against Baylor and doing all that (get this).............3 months before a Game Day ! WALA! With their help UNT almost sold out the darn stadium! That Denton C of C project worked so well that we dropped the ball and chose not repeat doing it once again 2 years in a row. Makes sense to me.

Ad nausem time, but Bands Over Texas was (according to some who were there) a success back when we did it but it takes those who want to work beyond their pay scale to have made a "2'nd Annual Bands Over Texas" a 2 years in a row success; rather, it ended after Year 1. The HS bands who attended that day had a blast! Highland Park HS won their marching contest that Game Day morning and stayed for a Mean Green football game to get their trophy presented had half time.

When I was in high school back in the 60's (post Texas Indian Wars), Univ. of Houston had annual Band Days...........amazingly.............they still do to this day. Def. of annual: One year after another................. It was an annual crowd-pleaser at UH back in the 60's and even apparently still is today. (Could we have used about 2,000 or more area bandsmen for the Ball State game all sitting where about 100 Ball State fans sat).

Again, as many of you know, I've been to more than a few of these Mean Green rodeos (so to speak) and I will repeat this (till I'm blue in the face) that we of North Texas avoid real butts in seats promotion type programs like they are the bubonic plague. Still, it is our woeful annual attendance numbers that keeps this program down and from advancing to the next level (other than the obvious lack of consecutive winning seasons).

Sadly, we will have "1" well attended home game at Apogee this season and the subject of a real "get out the masses" athletics promotions program will once again go back on the back-burner and that based on the fact that just "1" well attended home game will simply do it for many and magically make them forget all the home games that were not well-attended this or any other Fall.

Our problem at North Texas is that we don't understand our own geographical culture; that is, we have to do more to get peoples attention about Game Days and to make them interesting because the regular Metroplex Joe Q Sports Fan can opt for about 1,000 other things to do if we of North Texas do not get their undivided attention and why our product would be so much more entertaining than the others that they (in massive numbers) choose instead.

Give AD Rick Villarreal Some Credit: Still........why we don't want to attack this year in and year out attendance problem head-on is beyond many of us and has been for about the last 4 AD's for this alum....Rick Villarreal has probably been our most pro-active AD to try to change this part of our campus culture (especially with the Freshmen class focus) but just that group alone is not enough for our fabulous 31,000 seat football palace and....................once again........

........AD/RV does not have the staff or manpower to pull off a Mustang Mania kind of get out the masses (and many more new faces) athletic promotions program. This kind of humongous project will IMHHO have to come from the very top, ie, President Rawlins and his BOR's for any of this to really have a chance to make any hay. They, too, have to understand the fact that other schools are passing us by even in the attendance wars. Sure we have a new football stadium built about 25 years later than it should have, but it just can't stop with that.

If we stand still and do nothing we will have this annual subject of low attendance on GMG.com this time next year and then the next year and then the next year..........

GMG!

Edited October 9, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Cerebus]

Coach needs to realize that this is not Ames. Dallas fans have standards and you must win to keep them coming. I still don't understand why we don't have season tickets goals attendance goals every year and this should absolutely be tied to rick's performance plan and evaluation. I swear this university runs like Washington at times. Time for some Mean Green tea.

GMG

Careful, people will brand you as a hater who just comes up with excuses for people not to attend.

I swear, people come on this board and fail to realize its an echo chamber. Yes, we are all die hards, yes, we will all attend. 95% of the Alumni don't feel that way, much less the general public.

We have to work hard to reach out to people and get them to come to the games. We then have to make it an enjoyable experience or they won't come back.

This attitude of "well, they just find excuses not to attend" or "what, you didn't call and clear up the confusion" will lead to NT being in exactly the same also ran position as we have always been in.

[SHOSS]

I believe what he is doing is speaking to the die hards.... Trying to pump us up to go out and sell others on attending. I have tried with coworkers that are also alums... With limited success.... It is truly amazing to me the lack of pride in our alma mater that has infested our alumni base... If they are actual fans of college athletics, they are fans of other schools because everyone wants to root for a winner. That is my assessment. I know, people also need oxygen to survive.

It is gonna take winning and a lot of it. The rebuttals I get are when we stop being a doormat, or when we could challenge for a national chamionship, blah blah blah... Then the others simply are not sports fans...or not even fans of college sports...much less any sports...

The closest we have come to actually capturing new fans was the Georgia game...then it fell apart by the 4th quarter...further ruining the momentum with an uninspired effort at Tulane.

But, unfortunately, we all have to sell sell sell for our own alums on the idea....

Now, if the students would just show up...even a few of them, I think that would be the biggest plus short and long term... Again, winning would do wonders there too.... Think about how unloyal and douchy the fickle youngster is nowadays(man I can't believe how old I sound). Win win win win win win... I have such high hopes for Mac. I just don't know. Attendance embarrasses me just about every home game. I have only missed 2 home games in tha last 8 years.

I will be there... Even if it is by myself.... Go mean green.

[Stan R]

Careful, people will brand you as a hater who just comes up with excuses for people not to attend.

I swear, people come on this board and fail to realize its an echo chamber. Yes, we are all die hards, yes, we will all attend. 95% of the Alumni don't feel that way, much less the general public.

We have to work hard to reach out to people and get them to come to the games. We then have to make it an enjoyable experience or they won't come back.

This attitude of "well, they just find excuses not to attend" or "what, you didn't call and clear up the confusion" will lead to NT being in exactly the same also ran position as we have always been in.

Yup. so... has anyone done a scientific study on the other 95%'ers?

I'd like to propose this as the breakdown. Think of it as an un-scientific speculative study. An UN-SPEC study if you will.

50% - were told there would be wins during theses events and were dismayed when this occasionally was not the case.

15% - have sunlight allergies

10% - are showing up at Fouts field gates thinking "yeah, just as I read, attendance is poor".

25% - prefer knitting or crochet based sports.

5% - think the walk from the fouts lot over the bridge is "just too dangerous with all that traffic below. plus the thing shakes alot. kind of scary".

Am I over 95%? Well too bad, this is an unscientific study. That's why we have Rice in this conference. Let them deal with the math.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I believe what he is doing is speaking to the die hards.... Trying to pump us up to go out and sell others on attending. I have tried with coworkers that are also alums... With limited success.... It is truly amazing to me the lack of pride in our alma mater that has infested our alumni base... If they are actual fans of college athletics, they are fans of other schools because everyone wants to root for a winner. That is my assessment. I know, people also need oxygen to survive.

It is gonna take winning and a lot of it. The rebuttals I get are when we stop being a doormat, or when we could challenge for a national chamionship, blah blah blah... Then the others simply are not sports fans...or not even fans of college sports...much less any sports...

The closest we have come to actually capturing new fans was the Georgia game...then it fell apart by the 4th quarter...further ruining the momentum with an uninspired effort at Tulane.

But, unfortunately, we all have to sell sell sell for our own alums on the idea....

Now, if the students would just show up...even a few of them, I think that would be the biggest plus short and long term... Again, winning would do wonders there too.... Think about how unloyal and douchy the fickle youngster is nowadays(man I can't believe how old I sound). Win win win win win win... I have such high hopes for Mac. I just don't know. Attendance embarrasses me just about every home game. I have only missed 2 home games in tha last 8 years.

I will be there... Even if it is by myself.... Go mean green.

I will be there, too, but it just makes me feel good about my school when the stadium is full with those who feel about North Texas the way that most of us on the message board feel about it.

If they gave free tickets to every school kid in Denton County for the Wing Zone and they filled it, does anyone still say......those little rug rats should have had to buy a ticket, too? No, I really think most would say............doesn't our Wing Zone look so much nicer when its filled to the brim?

GMG!

PS: 40 years later and with a UNT constituency of which each (enrollment, city, county, DFW alum numbers) are about 4 X's larger than when I was a UNT student, I still think this attendance thing at Apogee Stadium can be solved with the right plan and with many more foots (feet) to put those plans in action--I really do feel this way.

Edited October 9, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Travis Scott]

want to add butts in the seats??? have more kids and bring them. Our 6 will be cheering on the Mean Green!

[SilverEagle]

I have never understood how bemoaning attendance does anything but perpetuate poor attendance. I know McCarney did it in a good way, but never the less what purpose does it serve? My bet is there is not one person, who heard or read his statement, that says, by golly he is right; I am going to buy a ticket and go. More likely, the few none game going people who read that think: the same old NT, why don't those people give up. Not exactly good marketing.

I read the some variation of the same thing almost every year about NT attendance. Sell beer, advertise more, cheaper seats, band days or the like; none of those things have any long lasting effect.

Building a culture of athletic support is a slow process, but the main ingredient is winning against worthy opponents. A program is not going to win them all, but there has to be a some expectation of a win in a game that matters. This has to be continued for years to establish an enlarged fan group.

NT has been horrible at this, no two wins in a row in how long? The basketball program successfully build up to a new plateau and has the most ballyhooed team in NT history returning and goes cheap and hires a journeyman assistant coach with no hc experience and sets the MBB program back as far as possible in one year. The Dickey's teams have conference success and NT not only doesn't build on it; they allow Dickey to bad mouth the school and effectively bottom the program.

These are missed opportunities in the RV era, but it has gone on long before that. Attendance can be grown, but not by proclamation. There has to be continued improvement and all the gimmicks in the world are not going to replace it.

It starts at orientation, but it has to build up after that. Where are all the spirit organizations? What are they doing to make game WEEK demonstrations to show that more than the hired staff care about the sporting events that this school is sponsoring. Follow through, follow through, and then, even in the darkest hours......follow through.

No parent ever taught their infant how to walk and talk and potty train by just saying "well, it's now time for you to walk and talk and start using the potty. It takes endless hours of hands-on-CONSISTENT-follow-through. Something that North Texas has never done regarding sports and school spirit.

[drex]

Here is my take on 'free ticket.' When we played SMU in '89 (I think it was), there was a sellout. Know why it was a sellout? Because I got with Albertson's and Pizza Hut and had them commit to ads in the Record-Chronicle and NT Daily for 10 days consistently up to game time publicizing the game. They already had ad buys in the paper anyway, and just added the game information to the ad. For their free advertising for the game, we gave them about 3,000 tickets to distribute free to the public. Every time someone walked into Pizza Hut or Albertson's they got a free ticket if they asked. The pizza delivery guys also gave free tickets with their deliveries. Now, were those 'free tickets?'....no, they were purchased by Albertson's and Pizza Hut for their advertising commitment. Anyway, it worked and everyone marveled how we sold out the game. If we had not done that promotion, we would have had a good crowd, but not a sellout crowd. Have you ever seen an empty seat buy a coke or a t-shirt?

[PlummMeanGreen]

Here is my take on 'free ticket.' When we played SMU in '89 (I think it was), there was a sellout. Know why it was a sellout? Because I got with Albertson's and Pizza Hut and had them commit to ads in the Record-Chronicle and NT Daily for 10 days consistently up to game time publicizing the game. They already had ad buys in the paper anyway, and just added the game information to the ad. For their free advertising for the game, we gave them about 3,000 tickets to distribute free to the public. Every time someone walked into Pizza Hut or Albertson's they got a free ticket if they asked. The pizza delivery guys also gave free tickets with their deliveries. Now, were those 'free tickets?'....no, they were purchased by Albertson's and Pizza Hut for their advertising commitment. Anyway, it worked and everyone marveled how we sold out the game. If we had not done that promotion, we would have had a good crowd, but not a sellout crowd. Have you ever seen an empty seat buy a coke or a t-shirt?

Always said that drex did more with less than most any other staffer we've had up there.

He, too, had many losing teams he had to promote as well.. Simply amazing how he cannot

get a response from those up there now who need to respond if just out of respect if nothing else. Matter of fact, they might want to listen to some of his ideas since he's been there-done that, too. You know, if your attitude indicates that you really don't like or have much use for your most loyal fans then your chances to pulling in many more significant new faces will be about slim and none in Denton, Texas.

We won't fill Apogee Stadium with a few good ol' boys and large money contributors, either; that is, those who have close UNT Athletic Dept. connections--it simply won't happen--maybe they'd fill the Apogee Stadium pre-game buffett line instead.

I have a DVD of that SMU/North Texas game. (The game was televised "live" in DFW and still was SRO at ol' Fouts Field) There were actually more than 22,000 fans in a 20,000 seat stadium that night as I recall. One actually told me many more UNT students were turned away. (That might be an urban tale but I wouldn't doubt that as I recall that game). How many of all our gang would be happy with 22,000 plus fans at the MUTS game this Saturday evening?

I did hear that the Denton Fire Marshall was said to have gotten a bit nervous over the number who did not have seats and were standing in the concourses or sitting in the aisles.

And then there was the matter of a certain condescending (to UNT fans/students) letter to the NT Daily from SMU alum Lawrence Perkins. Did anyone ever chase that dude down? If so, please let me be the first to know.

All in all, I still think many of us will still live long enough to see our attendance woes addressed and then solved.

Folks, our overall various UNT constituencies numbers are just too large for us to keep having these attendance problems at this point in our athletics history and as we now possess one of the best NCAA FBS football stadiums in the USA....bar none.

GMG!

.

Edited October 9, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

A few things from this thread that I would like to answer.

1.) Why did those 4000 students at the UNT Pep Rally in 100 degree heat in August at Apogee not show up for our UNT game versus Ball State in another scorcher of a day?

Well, we were straight up against the biggest college football game of the year that involved a Texas behemoth--Alabama @ A&M with Johnny Football. Everyone here can bitch about this, but much like Texas-OU this weekend, even with an early start, these behemoth games involving Texas or A&M take away a lot of interest from a UNT game when we are playing a team that no one in this area cares about. Ball State is a good non-AQ team--and not a sole in DFW who doesn't have Indiana ties cares one iota about Ball State, which leads to #2...

2.) Back in 2003, the Denton Chamber of Commerce started a 3-month campaign to get a huge turnout for the UNT season opener, which saw abig crowd at Fouts. Why did that work so well and why haven't we tried it again?

Its solely because we were hosting SWC royalty at Fouts in the Baylor Bears. Even if they completely suck, people in Denton know who Baylor is because they wwatched them for years in the SWC and Big XII. Fans that are not amongst the 10k diehard UNT fans want to watch UNT play Baylor or Rice or SMU or TCU or UH or Tulsa in home openers, even in a dump like Fouts. They don't want to watch UNT play Idaho, Texas Southern, Ohio, Florida Atlantic, Nicholls State, Indiana State, or Illinois State as home openers. Most Chamber of Commerce people are businessmen, so they can sell something pretty easily, if they want to. They know that Joe Q Public doesn't care that UNT is playing--they care WHO we are playing. Its why UNT90 and I have griped about OOC scheduling for a long time, especially with a new stadium. We still schedule the same as we did in OOC as we did at Fouts, which was worse than playing at 2A HS.

3.) Coach McCarney shouldn't complain about attendance when his team is not winning still.

He's doing a classic Dickey trick--make the team believe they are against the wall with very little help from anyone outside of the locker room. Even with a crowd of 15k+, its an easy argument for Dickey and McCarney to say to their team, "See, out of 200k alumni, 36k students, and 800k in the county, we can't even get half the stadium full. We are just gonna have to take care of ourselves and tell everyone else to eff off." Very telling to see McCarney going down this road--he's trying to keep the team on his side, since they know that he has to win by next season or he's gone, and he's gonna need them to put forth every effort for him to keep his job by the end of 2014.

This is UNT--we will win this weekend over MUTS in front of an "announced crowd of 14k", which means about 10k. We win at Apogee against teams like MUTS--we just lose on the road to teams on our schedule like La Tech, Southern Miss, and Tulsa. I still see a 5-7 season, just as I did before we played a down. When you cannot win on the road, its not rocket science to see where this thing will finish in 2013.

Edited October 9, 2013 by untjim1995