Offensive play calling

UNT90 · October 6, 2013

So what does that tell you about DT? He should make those throws. He's an FBS starting QB for 3 years. You make them you win.

Can't make the throw when your OC is calling 1st down run after run. Guess what? When it's 3rd and forever, the defense knows exactly what you are going to try to do.

When was the last time we saw a 1st down, 1st qtr play action deep ball? Especially on the road?

Doesn't happen. When you coach scared, you play scared.

That is exactly what happened today.

FirefightnRick · October 6, 2013

When was the last time we saw a 1st down, 1st qtr play action deep ball? .

Did you have to go piss during our last scoring drive? We hit them on three first down, play action passes in a row on that drive.

The problem is,... on the final drive we got back away from it,.. Ending on a fourth a d one with a QB draw that started 5 yards deep.

Rick

UNT90 · October 6, 2013

Did you have to go piss during our last scoring drive? We hit them on three first down, play action passes in a row on that drive.
The problem is,... on the final drive we got back away from it,.. Ending on a fourth a d one with a QB draw that started 5 yards deep.
Rick

Perhaps you missed the 1st quarter part of my post.

eulessismore · October 6, 2013

A lot of good comments here, but one thing I've noticed is that every time I've followed a game where we had a field goal attempt blocked and run back, we lose. I don't think the one blocked in the Army game at Fouts was run all the way back, but it was just a huge momentum shift, just like the one today. Yeah, our offense sucked a lot today, but theirs would have sucked worse if it hadn't been for the personal foul penalties that kept their first scoring drive alive. I guess the thing that disappoints me about the offense is that it seemed like we had figured out early enough in the Ball State game that we had to open things up; now it's like we forgot what seemed to work for us and went back into a shell.

FirefightnRick · October 6, 2013

Perhaps you missed the 1st quarter part of my post.

Oh yeah,...I did. My bad. At least we proved its a possibility, right?

So again, whoever designed that first half offensive game plan should have to find their own way back tonight. Worst set of offensive series I've seen in several years.

Rick

UNT90 · October 6, 2013

Oh yeah,...I did. My bad. At least we proved its a possibility, right?
So again, whoever designed that first half offensive game plan should have to find their own way back tonight. Worst set of offensive series I've seen in several years.
Rick

I wish Tasty still gave a crap, because I would bet our 1st down, 1st half, road game run/pass percentage would be above a 70/30 split. I am not motivated enough to look at the numbers.

Still remember Macs first game against FIU, where we ran the ball on every 1st down until midway through the second quarter. I firmly believe this particular issue is a Mac issue, not a Chico issue. Just listen to Mac's comments in the last coaching show (said we will run the ball, even against 8 and 9 man fronts).

FirefightnRick · October 6, 2013

I wish Tasty still gave a crap, because I would bet our 1st down, 1st half, road game run/pass percentage would be above a 70/30 split. I am not motivated enough to look at the numbers.
Still remember Macs first game against FIU, where we ran the ball on every 1st down until midway through the second quarter. I firmly believe this particular issue is a Mac issue, not a Chico issue. Just listen to Mac's comments in the last coaching show (said we will run the ball, even against 8 and 9 man fronts).

I wouldn't bet against it.

Still... My broken record post for the night is....

....when we need a critical first down on 4th and 1 we call a QB draw........FROM THE SHOTGUN.....FIVE YARDS DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!!
Who $&@!ing calls that play??????

Rick

TheColonyEagle · October 6, 2013

I know Canales calls the plays but he calls the plays Mac wants. The conservative play calling is Mac. Canales didn't call plays like this the last 5 games the year he took over after Dodge got fired. I'm not defending Canales but this is Dan McCarney 101.

He's conservative at home. He's ULTRA conservative on the road.

Next year, Canales may be somewhere else. We'll watch that offense and go, "hey why didn't he do that here?"

This is a Dan McCarney offense, period.

emmitt01 · October 6, 2013

I ove that people are jumping on DT. Simply shows how silly our fan base is.

Yes, he threw a pick six. Tell me what should he have done there?

A) Call a ridiculous screen pass when everyone in the stadium knew it was coming? Nope, that's Chico.

Bat down his own throw when it WAS TIPPED at the LOS?

C) Run real fast and catch the DB who broke on the play (see A)

The guy put up 21 points in the second half when Tulane's defense knew the pass was coming and we had abandoned the run. DT is not your scapegoat today, or at least he shouldn't be. Piss poor special teams play, needless penalties, abhorrent first half play calling or home cooking by the zebras are all FAR more responsible for this loss. But hey, let's continue to play the bag on Derek card because that's what unobservant fans do.

Green P1 · October 6, 2013

I blame the OC

Then you blame Mac....

Green P1 · October 6, 2013

I ove that people are jumping on DT. Simply shows how silly our fan base is.
Yes, he threw a pick six. Tell me what should he have done there?
A) Call a ridiculous screen pass when everyone in the stadium knew it was coming? Nope, that's Chico.
Bat down his own throw when it WAS TIPPED at the LOS?
C) Run real fast and catch the DB who broke on the play (see A)
The guy put up 21 points in the second half when Tulane's defense knew the pass was coming and we had abandoned the run. DT is not your scapegoat today, or at least he shouldn't be. Piss poor special teams play, needless penalties, abhorrent first half play calling or home cooking by the zebras are all FAR more responsible for this loss. But hey, let's continue to play the bag on Derek card because that's what unobservant fans do.

I watched the pick 6 over about 4 times. It didn't need the tip to get picked. It was sniffed out and surrounded from the snap yet he still threw it because once he's locked onto something it's always thrown no matter what.

The guy fumbled away the ball at the goal line and was lucky a lineman found it for 7 of those points. He followed that up with 3 more balls in the 2nd half that were easy pick 6 material had tulane's defense not had awful stone hands. 7 more of those points were on a hideous lame duck ball where te DB somehow got himself so turned around that he fell to his knees.

Hate on unobservant fans if you want.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Green P1

Got5onIt · October 6, 2013

Can't make the throw when your OC is calling 1st down run after run. Guess what? When it's 3rd and forever, the defense knows exactly what you are going to try to do.
When was the last time we saw a 1st down, 1st qtr play action deep ball? Especially on the road?
Doesn't happen. When you coach scared, you play scared.
That is exactly what happened today.

So how many bad throws did DT make to open receivers? At least twice on blitzes in the 1st half he should've hit. Later his 1st pick was under thrown & then the pick-6 on a ridiculously thrown screen pass. You have to make those throws. How is that the coaches fault? Edited October 6, 2013 by Got5onIt

GoMeanGreen1999 · October 6, 2013

I know Canales calls the plays but he calls the plays Mac wants. The conservative play calling is Mac. Canales didn't call plays like this the last 5 games the year he took over after Dodge got fired. I'm not defending Canales but this is Dan McCarney 101.
He's conservative at home. He's ULTRA conservative on the road.
Next year, Canales may be somewhere else. We'll watch that offense and go, "hey why didn't he do that here?"
This is a Dan McCarney offense, period.

This is the best answer right here. It doesn't matter who the OC is when Mac over rules everything.

UNTLifer · October 6, 2013

This is the best answer right here. It doesn't matter who the OC is when Mac over rules everything.

Maybe, but Conroy Hines was his OC and was calling the plays. I think this is more Chico than you think considering this fits hid MO at other schools where he has been OC.

GreenFlag · October 6, 2013

I watched the pick 6 over about 4 times. It didn't need the tip to get picked. It was sniffed out and surrounded from the snap yet he still threw it because once he's locked onto something it's always thrown no matter what.
The guy fumbled away the ball at the goal line and was lucky a lineman found it for 7 of those points. He followed that up with 3 more balls in the 2nd half that were easy pick 6 material had tulane's defense not had awful stone hands. 7 more of those points were on a hideous lame duck ball where te DB somehow got himself so turned around that he fell to his knees.
Hate on unobservant fans if you want.

How about the inaccuracy as well? Wide open receivers jumping for balls, diving for balls, or in the case of Chancellor waiting for a ball. Our receivers played outstanding pulling in some of those throws.

KingDL1 · October 6, 2013

Then you blame Mac....

I will next year if this is not fixed soon

KingDL1 · October 6, 2013

I know Canales calls the plays but he calls the plays Mac wants. The conservative play calling is Mac. Canales didn't call plays like this the last 5 games the year he took over after Dodge got fired. I'm not defending Canales but this is Dan McCarney 101.
He's conservative at home. He's ULTRA conservative on the road.
Next year, Canales may be somewhere else. We'll watch that offense and go, "hey why didn't he do that here?"
This is a Dan McCarney offense, period.

Or maybe we will be saying how good our new Offensive Coordinator is calling the plays and how sharp our offense looks now. I think some are missing beyond the play calling the preparation for games. I just want a consistent offense,

Green P1 · October 6, 2013

Maybe, but Conroy Hines was his OC and was calling the plays. I think this is more Chico than you think considering this fits hid MO at other schools where he has been OC.

Mac is the head coach. Do you believe he's powerless to implement a gameplan? This is Mac ball.

KingDL1 · October 6, 2013

Mac is the head coach. Do you believe he's powerless to implement a gameplan? This is Mac ball.

I do believe Mac does let Canales do whatever game plan Canales likes. If Mac felt he had to do Canales' job we would already have a new OC.

Edited October 6, 2013 by KingDL1

MeanGreenDan · October 6, 2013

I ove that people are jumping on DT. Simply shows how silly our fan base is.
Yes, he threw a pick six. Tell me what should he have done there?
A) Call a ridiculous screen pass when everyone in the stadium knew it was coming? Nope, that's Chico.
Bat down his own throw when it WAS TIPPED at the LOS?
C) Run real fast and catch the DB who broke on the play (see A)
The guy put up 21 points in the second half when Tulane's defense knew the pass was coming and we had abandoned the run. DT is not your scapegoat today, or at least he shouldn't be. Piss poor special teams play, needless penalties, abhorrent first half play calling or home cooking by the zebras are all FAR more responsible for this loss. But hey, let's continue to play the bag on Derek card because that's what unobservant fans do.

Pushing your agenda by calling anyone who disagrees with you an in observant fan... cool trick!

MeanMag · October 6, 2013

My Take (I didn't get to watch this one):

Reading just this thread I expected th pass/run ratios to be more different from what they show up as in the statistics.

The Game Split Pass/Run was about 44/20.

1st Half: 13/12

2nd Half: 31/8

1st Down Total Pass/Run: 20/9

1st Half: 4/5

2nd Half: 16/4

2nd Down Total Pass/Run: 12/7

1st Half: 3/5

2nd Half: 9/2

Not a bad split considering you'd like to keep things fairly balanced until halftime when you make adjustments and already have a good idea of what's working and what isn't. However, I too, would like to see us with a game plan that is less reactionary and balanced, and maybe more aggressive from the start when you consider how many games we've been playing from behind in. I think we have a good indication of the makeup of our team this year. It's safe to say we won't have any national rushing champions on our roster.

20 Runs all game:

5 for negative yds (2 of those negative because of holding)

5 were for no gain

Our longest run also happened to be the only one over 10 yds; It was for 12 yds near the end of the 3rd qtr.

I'd say we only really had around 5 running plays that would have kept us ahead of the chains.

We had 13 possessions in this game.

10 started with passes, 3 were runs. All 3 of those were in the first half.

3 of the 6 possessions in the first half were 3 and outs. (1 of those began with a run, the other 2; passes)

2 of those 3 had 0 yds on first downs thanks to penalties.

1 Series in the first half was 6 runs in a row before having to punt. It was the only time we obtained a first down conversion with a run.

1 3 and out in the second half.

The Obvious:

The Pick 6 was killer,

The blocked FG was killer

At one point in the 2nd half, we ran 3 straight running plays with 1 yd to pick up at the goalline:

A good line/TEs could get 1 yd for the back in 3 tries

A good back could get 1 yd for the line in 3 tries

A combination of a so-so line/TEs and a so-so back could probably get 1 in 3 tries

Something is really wrong here.

O-Line/TEs:

This is where Emmitt's argument holds up. Who blocks on FGs? Who makes sure their QB has enough time to make an accurate throw and not take a hit right after release? Who makes sure that backs have at least a 2 yd pickup? It's a common denominator. I'd have to say that I think O-Line is probably the least regarded position on the field. They are hidden from credit when good and first to take blame when a QB gets sacked. Because of this and the physicality, concentration, and technique it requires, it's probably the toughest position on offense to play, and the toughest to recruit for because they must fit into a cohesive unit. I have a large amount of respect for anyone that plays the position. However, I'm afraid that unit as a whole, did not live up to their preseason expectations in this game and for a couple halves to far in other games this season. They were supposed to be a strength.

I know we are getting the box stacked against us. There's still little reason for negative and no yardage plays half of the time.

Edited October 6, 2013 by MeanMag

Green In Regulation · October 6, 2013

Thompson threw for 326 yards and two touchdowns and outplayed Montana, who tallied just 132 yards.

The Mean Green finished with a 360-227 edge in total yards but couldn’t overcome the big plays Tulane made

Too bad the Defense couldn't step up when it counted.

MeanMag · October 6, 2013

Thompson threw for 326 yards and two touchdowns and outplayed Montana, who tallied just 132 yards.
The Mean Green finished with a 360-227 edge in total yards but couldnt overcome the big plays Tulane made

Too bad the Defense couldn't step up when it counted.

I think it was a team effort. Plenty of blame to go around in this one, not unlike most recent road games.. And Thompson shouldn't be excused. Throwing a pick 6 and another int isn't out playing Montana. The defense getting the personal fouls to sustain drives was very disappointing.

Dr. Seuss · October 6, 2013

We are still missing our best lineman Johnson and Lemon is playing tackle

GOMG2013 · October 6, 2013

DT is an average qb. Poor play calling is going to make him a lot worse. If you are a DB, and you are looking for a pick 6, you are jumping on tendencies.

Predictable play calling can also lead to pick 6s. DTs arm strength and locking on to wrs dont help, but its no secret that teams are looking for that pick 6. Pump fakes and double moves can slow that down. Hitting big vertical passing plays is something we dont do. The risk is worth it for a db. Even when we pass, we are conservative.