Thoughts on health insurance in America

[DeepGreen]

And don't forget, ObamaCare does not apply to the Washington elite. They get it subsidized with your tax dollars.

Good post The Fake Lonnie Finch.

[KRAM1]

And don't forget, ObamaCare does not apply to the Washington elite. They get it subsidized with your tax dollars.

Good post The Fake Lonnie Finch.

Not sure that is true, Deep. Word is that all the staffers are scrambling to find coverage. The Senator and Congressmen failed to include their staff in the exclusion I believe and this is causing more than a little angst within the DC folks. Pretty comical. This includes some pretty elite DC staffers. Word is that some are more than a little teed off...and, many work for the White House and the Dems who voted for the bill. DC and politics do naked such strange bedfellows. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when these guys explained to their staffs that they left them hanging out to dry while taking care of themselves! Would gave been classic!

[UNTFan23]

For one Obama has been in office for 5 years, not 8. Actually, America has gone from losing 700,000 jobs a month to gaining about 200,000 per month. The Iraq war? You think Obama started that war really? The stock market? From 7,000 to over 15,000. Deficits cut by hundreds of billions. But keep watching Faux News.

Why presidents get blame/credit for the ups/downs in the stock market is a mystery to me.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

And don't forget, ObamaCare does not apply to the Washington elite. They get it subsidized with your tax dollars.

Good post The Fake Lonnie Finch.

Thanks. Very few people pull their heads out of the sand long enough to realize the lasting damage that has been done in this country over the past three decades (1989 - present).

The final straw tilting America down the path of Mexico was the national leaders of the Democratic Party finally beginning to do business with "Big Business." Bush II continued it and we had the collapses in real estate and banking in 2008.

Right now, what happens on Wall Street is as disconnected to the everyday lives of the middle class as ever. That is, Wall Street doing well does not mean America is doing well; it means America's rich are doing well.

Many, many people in the middle class are duped into watching Wall Street. All of those companies righted their ships after 2008 by cutting payroll.

These jobs "created" by Obama are a joke. Very few are full time or high paid. This health care bill is going to be another way for big businesses to unload on the working class.

How people could not see this coming is unreal. Democrats especially. But, when you live in a purely, theoretical academic world, you make stupid policy choices for the people you say you are trying to help.

You look at the anemic labor movement in this country...all the result of Democrats constantly passing laws to hamstring businesses. They hang themselves at every turn in their attempts to "help" the working class. it's truly stunning.

It's becoming like Mexico...the poorer the people get, the closer they are to turning it over to outright communists. People don't realize how close Mexico is to electing a Hugo Chavez-type leader. America will become that way as the number of poor continues to increase.

Politicians have become so focused on righting the "haves versus the have nots" that they forget that people who produce it in the first place. The class that suffers the most with punish-the-rich/even-it-up legislation is the middle class.

Pathetic.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Why presidents get blame/credit for the ups/downs in the stock market is a mystery to me.

.

-- Yep and those who credit Perry with a great Texas economy ... I don't remember him putting oil in Texas and his Enterprise Fund has been a flop (except to him because of those contributing a large percent back to his political funds) .. You can blame him and the legislature for the huge budget problems in 2011 which had never happened before under any previous governor of either party. How did that happen with the Texas economy being as good as it has been .?? Who paid for that mess... those of us in education with less funding and those 1000's who lost their jobs (in education and other services ..claims he created jobs?) plus students are now in even more overcrowded classrooms**...... Perry didn't suffer or those controlling in the Legislature.. Oddly later there was a surplus .. about equal to what they cut from education. . people need to pay attention to what has happened and why.

**that has driven many students into private and sometime extreme religious schools and even home school situations ... which means less funding needed for public schools . ( seems to be his ultimate goal ). Home schools may work for lower grade levels but for secondary schools they are mostly a mess especially in math and science... ( I see them later in my college classes, and most of those student are WAY behind for the most part, they know random facts but no idea how or why things work. (many homeschoolers also seem socially inept and have not been exposed to a variety of ideas either ) In the real world after HS they will have to deal with all sorts of people and ideas.

Edited October 1, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[oldguystudent]

but for secondary schools they are mostly a mess especially in math and science... ( I see them later in my college classes, and most of those student are WAY behind for the most part, they know random facts but no idea how or why things work. (many homeschoolers also seem socially inept and have not been exposed to a variety of ideas either ) In the real world after HS they will have to deal with all sorts of people and ideas.

A huuuuuge invitation to some anecdotal story of somebody's fourteenth cousin three times removed who was home schooled and ended up on the honor roll at Podunk State Community College.

I'm glad that my kid goes to school with immigrants, ne'er-do-wells, children of suburban wine cooler sippers, and even extreme Christians. She gets to see all kinds of points of view from childhood, so when she does enter the world, the onslaught of ideas will neither scare nor flummox her.

As for science, she's already been introduced to the idea, in middle school pre-AP science, that the reality of global warming is irrelevant as Jesus will return within three years anyway (which, score, because I'll totally be off the hook for the remainder of my club seat agreement!). Sometimes, even shitty education is good. Makes a kid think early. That, to me, is what Perry and his ilk fear most.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

So last summer I got food poisoning, violently. I was dry heaving for hours and from previous experience knew there was a shot I could get to make this stop. I go into Baylor Uptown and tell them I need this shot. They say I was most likely dehydrated, which was likely, so I agreed to have one bag of IV fluids dumped into me. I come out an hour later and go home.

A month later I get a bill for $1,800. ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS. I'm a healthy, active 27 year old so naturally I have a HDHP. I got to eat all of that.

Guess what? I had this EXACT same shot while at UNT, that's how I knew it existed. At UNT I did not buy the supplemental insurance and I actually did not have private insurance either - I was rolling the dice.

I was billed $20. One bag of IV was the only difference, that does not cost $1,780.

..

The health and insurance industry has brought a lot of this on themselves.... My wife this fall spent about 4 hours at a hospital one night and the bill was $1000's. (5 in think) that was ridiculous. I am not saying the saying the affordable health act is absolutely good thing but we are already paying for indigent care and other costs as well with taxes and unreal costs... Medical costs are extreme to what they were 50 years ago and it is not all about the improved care given.

--I urge ultra conservatives T-party types to not collect social security beyond what they paid in or what they paid into medicare costs either (if they are really the ultra conservative they claim to be) ...also urge their parents to not collect either (just have them move in with them if they need to ). If they do.... they are hypocrites to complain about those programs ). .

Social Security or F.I.C.A (Federal Insurance C. A.) ... It is a life insurance policy but also provides insurance for child survivors in case of death. My wife lost her father as the result of WWII. and her family received some benefits until she was 21 (18 if she had not been in school). Yes some of us lose money on that deal ... but don't ask me how much health, auto (required) and home insurance [ not a government program ] has made off me. Insurance is complete gamble and should be used for possible extreme loses.. some win and some lose. Don't insurance a $2000 car except for liability.... that is a bad gamble.. you can afford the loss if something happens. .

.

Edited October 1, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

A huuuuuge invitation to some anecdotal story of somebody's fourteenth cousin three times removed who was home schooled and ended up on the honor roll at Podunk State Community College.

I'm glad that my kid goes to school with immigrants, ne'er-do-wells, children of suburban wine cooler sippers, and even extreme Christians. She gets to see all kinds of points of view from childhood, so when she does enter the world, the onslaught of ideas will neither scare nor flummox her.

As for science, she's already been introduced to the idea, in middle school pre-AP science, that the reality of global warming is irrelevant as Jesus will return within three years anyway (which, score, because I'll totally be off the hook for the remainder of my club seat agreement!). Sometimes, even shitty education is good. Makes a kid think early. That, to me, is what Perry and his ilk fear most.

..

-- There are a few very bad community colleges** but most are very good ... freshman classes at community colleges are taught by people who usually have taught for years and have master's degree or more in the subject .. not some TA with a bachelor degree teaching his first class ever .... or a class of 100 students. Stats we get back from major universities including UNT show our former students actually have a higher GPA there collectively than those who stated classes at the university level. I was once a TA and now teach at a community college... I have seen both sides and those "profs" teaching there. Usually a big difference.

--I understand that most students want to leave home for their freshman year but so many play around (too immature) and we get to see them back home after one or two semesters. I lived at College Inn when it was new ... only 305 students that first year (maybe 80% freshman) and after one semester we had about 195 left for the spring. That didn't happen the next year because of fewer immature freshman living there. One year at a good community college or small college is not a bad thing. -- personally two of my kids went away and one stayed at a community college... but the ones that went off took certain freshman classes here in the summer to avoid huge classes and rookies... they have engineering degrees.. my other one finished at UNT, business.

** usually very small and maybe struggling to keep their doors open

Edited October 1, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[oldguystudent]

Unless she earns a full ride, my kid is well indoctrinated and sold on the merits of community college. Sorry what I said came out as pejorative.

[glick1980]

Thanks. Very few people pull their heads out of the sand long enough to realize the lasting damage that has been done in this country over the past three decades (1989 - present).

The final straw tilting America down the path of Mexico was the national leaders of the Democratic Party finally beginning to do business with "Big Business." Bush II continued it and we had the collapses in real estate and banking in 2008.

Right now, what happens on Wall Street is as disconnected to the everyday lives of the middle class as ever. That is, Wall Street doing well does not mean America is doing well; it means America's rich are doing well.

Many, many people in the middle class are duped into watching Wall Street. All of those companies righted their ships after 2008 by cutting payroll.

These jobs "created" by Obama are a joke. Very few are full time or high paid. This health care bill is going to be another way for big businesses to unload on the working class.

How people could not see this coming is unreal. Democrats especially. But, when you live in a purely, theoretical academic world, you make stupid policy choices for the people you say you are trying to help.

You look at the anemic labor movement in this country...all the result of Democrats constantly passing laws to hamstring businesses. They hang themselves at every turn in their attempts to "help" the working class. it's truly stunning.

It's becoming like Mexico...the poorer the people get, the closer they are to turning it over to outright communists. People don't realize how close Mexico is to electing a Hugo Chavez-type leader. America will become that way as the number of poor continues to increase.

Politicians have become so focused on righting the "haves versus the have nots" that they forget that people who produce it in the first place. The class that suffers the most with punish-the-rich/even-it-up legislation is the middle class.

Pathetic.

It's funny that you began with 1989 as the demise of America. From 1980-1988 the national debt went from about $1 trillion to $3 trillion. Spending as a percentage of GDP was at the highest level in this period. This era was the beginning of America's trend of borrowing much more than it brings in. The extreme flaw of supply side economics which is one of the absolute worst plans in our country's history has crippled us to the point we have never recovered. Only for a brief period in the mid and late 90's have we had a balanced budget. And that period was promptly crapped on by another supply side nutjob.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

The truth about the national debt.... this is the US treasury site... not a political one, or Fox, or Rush L., or even NBC. It began to skyrocket in 2001 which we now have to deal with and in the 80's it tripled. Yes that President is gone but the problems and debt climb that started in 2001 is still with us. Can't get Congress to pass anything (one party wants even more tax cuts.. the last cut increased our debt situation (plus invading a country that supposedly was making nukes and never were any or the factories ever found and the source of "info" was proven to be lying made it even worse)..

after 2000 : http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

before then: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Doesn't make the so-called conservatives after 2000 look that conservative. Remember there is NO political bias here.. it is the US Treasury site..

I will agree they are conservative when it comes to religion... just not financially.

Edited October 2, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Andrew]

I am healthy and young. I pay almost 500 doll orca month for my son and myself. My insurance covers nothing! Earlier this year I went to the doctor because I had the flue. Itched up costing me almost 300 dollars.... To get Tame flu... Why even pay for insurance!?!? It covers absolutely nothing for me until I meet my 3500 dollar deductible. Finally once I meet that I get to only pay 20% of any other medical needs. What a joke! Just floating the system for someone else at this point. A system which will not be there for me when I am older. I will be screwed over twice. Once by the generation older then me and nice by the generation younger. I am stuck in the complacent generation....

[UNTFan23]

The IT part of me giggles at the technological struggles of the exchanges today. I'm sure someone will make a reference over the federal government's poor implementation at work at some point. Leave it to government to low-ball how much people will hammer their services the first week something brand new that people have displayed lots of angst over. Good gosh, how hard would it have been to load test the various pieces before today?!

[forevereagle]

I am healthy and young. I pay almost 500 doll orca month for my son and myself. My insurance covers nothing! Earlier this year I went to the doctor because I had the flue. Itched up costing me almost 300 dollars.... To get Tame flu... Why even pay for insurance!?!? It covers absolutely nothing for me until I meet my 3500 dollar deductible. Finally once I meet that I get to only pay 20% of any other medical needs. What a joke! Just floating the system for someone else at this point. A system which will not be there for me when I am older. I will be screwed over twice. Once by the generation older then me and nice by the generation younger. I am stuck in the complacent generation....

I believe that you may have made a salient point there, but not sure.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Not sure that is true, Deep. Word is that all the staffers are scrambling to find coverage. The Senator and Congressmen failed to include their staff in the exclusion I believe and this is causing more than a little angst within the DC folks. Pretty comical. This includes some pretty elite DC staffers. Word is that some are more than a little teed off...and, many work for the White House and the Dems who voted for the bill. DC and politics do naked such strange bedfellows. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when these guys explained to their staffs that they left them hanging out to dry while taking care of themselves! Would gave been classic!

Here's a couple links I came across in Googling "is congress exempt from obamacare":

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/27/is-congress-exempt-from-obamacare/2883635/

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/08/no-special-subsidy-for-congress/

From what I understand, they are pretty neutral sources.

Edited October 2, 2013 by BeanCounterGrad'03

[FirefightnRick]

_{Remember that "Fiscal Cliff" we never hear about any more? This probably originated about that time, but it still applies today.}

_{Fiscal Cliff put in a much better perspective}

_{Lesson #1}

_{*U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000}

_{*Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000}

_{*New debt: $1,650,000,000,000}

_{*National debt; $$14,271,000,000,000}

_{*Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000}

_{Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:}

_{*Annual family income: $21,700}

_{*Money the family spent: $38,000}

_{*New debt on the credit card: $16,000}

_{*Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710}

_{*Total budget cuts so far: $38.50}

_{Got it??....Ok now,}

_{Lesson #2}

_{Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:}

_{Let's say, you come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way}

_{up to your ceilings.}

_{What do you think you should do.....}

_{Raise the ceilings or remove the shit?}

_Rick

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

..

The health and insurance industry has brought a lot of this on themselves.... My wife this fall spent about 4 hours at a hospital one night and the bill was $1000's. (5 in think) that was ridiculous. I am not saying the saying the affordable health act is absolutely good thing but we are already paying for indigent care and other costs as well with taxes and unreal costs... Medical costs are extreme to what they were 50 years ago and it is not all about the improved care given.

--I urge ultra conservatives T-party types to not collect social security beyond what they paid in or what they paid into medicare costs either (if they are really the ultra conservative they claim to be) ...also urge their parents to not collect either (just have them move in with them if they need to ). If they do.... they are hypocrites to complain about those programs ). .

Social Security or F.I.C.A (Federal Insurance C. A.) ... It is a life insurance policy but also provides insurance for child survivors in case of death. My wife lost her father as the result of WWII. and her family received some benefits until she was 21 (18 if she had not been in school). Yes some of us lose money on that deal ... but don't ask me how much health, auto (required) and home insurance [ not a government program ] has made off me. Insurance is complete gamble and should be used for possible extreme loses.. some win and some lose. Don't insurance a $2000 car except for liability.... that is a bad gamble.. you can afford the loss if something happens. .

.

Property insurance is not a gamble.

If you don't want to pay for homeowners insurance, don't buy a house using someone else's money. Banks and mortgage lenders know you don't have the money to repair the asset if it is damaged, so you are required to carry insurance as a result. That's not a gamble - that's a lender protecting the asset that it co-owns with someone who doesn't have the financial punch to buy it outright.

As far as auto insurance goes, if you don't want to pay high rates, then don't buy comprehensive, collision, and uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. Repairs for even a fender bender these days will exceed what an insurer charges in annual premium in the vast majority of cases.

If you think it's a "gamble," then drop those three coverage and man up and pay for your own losses. The insurance company takes on much more risk in the contract than the policyholder does.

In your lifetime, you will never pay insurance companies for the total value of your home, possessions, other structures, additional living expense, or liability contained even in a single year's policy.

People who complain about homeowers and auto insurance are like the knuckleheads who complain about oil companies, yet continue to use petroleum-based products in their daily lives. You don't have to participate in it; you choose to live a lifestyle where you are required - for good reason - to purchase it.

Property insurance isn't a government program where the companies can just print up more money or "raise the debt ceiling" if they can't meet their financial obligations. Whether people ever admit it or not, you will not fnd a better deal than you have on property and auto insurance.

Edited October 3, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[LongJim]

_{Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:}

_{*Annual family income: $21,700}

_{*Money the family spent: $38,000}

_{*New debt on the credit card: $16,000}

_{*Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710}

_{*Total budget cuts so far: $38.50}

_Rick

Pretty good analogy. But hey, I got not time for that. I gotta get my Facebook on.

Just keep sending me my checks and my "free" stuff, and we're good.

Edited October 3, 2013 by LongJim

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

_{Remember that "Fiscal Cliff" we never hear about any more? This probably originated about that time, but it still applies today.}

_{Fiscal Cliff put in a much better perspective}

_{Lesson #1}

_{*U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000}

_{*Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000}

_{*New debt: $1,650,000,000,000}

_{*National debt; $$14,271,000,000,000}

_{*Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000}

_{Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:}

_{*Annual family income: $21,700}

_{*Money the family spent: $38,000}

_{*New debt on the credit card: $16,000}

_{*Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710}

_{*Total budget cuts so far: $38.50}

_{Got it??....Ok now,}

_{Lesson #2}

_{Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:}

_{Let's say, you come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way}

_{up to your ceilings.}

_{What do you think you should do.....}

_{Raise the ceilings or remove the shit?}

_Rick

That's awesome, Rick! Wish I'd thought to do that!

[glick1980]

_{Remember that "Fiscal Cliff" we never hear about any more? This probably originated about that time, but it still applies today.}

_{Fiscal Cliff put in a much better perspective}

_{Lesson #1}

_{*U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000}

_{*Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000}

_{*New debt: $1,650,000,000,000}

_{*National debt; $$14,271,000,000,000}

_{*Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000}

_{Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:}

_{*Annual family income: $21,700}

_{*Money the family spent: $38,000}

_{*New debt on the credit card: $16,000}

_{*Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710}

_{*Total budget cuts so far: $38.50}

_{Got it??....Ok now,}

_{Lesson #2}

_{Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:}

_{Let's say, you come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way}

_{up to your ceilings.}

_{What do you think you should do.....}

_{Raise the ceilings or remove the shit?}

_Rick

Then you know nothing about the debt ceiling. Defaulting on debt we have issued will increase the interest rate we pay on any new debt we issue, thus costing much more. Once you are in a hole as deep as we are, not issuing new debt is not an option. In your analogy, "removing the shit" does not involve doubling the interest rate on your mortgage. In this case it does. And it will cause damage to many more areas of the financial system.

Edited October 4, 2013 by glick1980

[meangreenacct]

Then you know nothing about the debt ceiling. Defaulting on debt we have issued will increase the interest rate we pay on any new debt we issue, thus costing much more. Once you are in a hole as deep as we are, not issuing new debt is not an option. In your analogy, "removing the shit" does not involve doubling the interest rate on your mortgage. In this case it does. And it will cause damage to many more areas of the financial system.

Yea - defaulting on our debt would make the previous financial crisis seem like a minor speed bump. Even most Replublicans within the financial sector understand the far reaching implications of this..."tea party" talking heads, not so much.

[FirefightnRick]

Then you know nothing about the debt ceiling. Defaulting on debt we have issued will increase the interest rate we pay on any new debt we issue, thus costing much more. Once you are in a hole as deep as we are, not issuing new debt is not an option. In your analogy, "removing the shit" does not involve doubling the interest rate on your mortgage. In this case it does. And it will cause damage to many more areas of the financial system.

How bout we stop funding what we can't afford? Is that an option in the Liberal mindset?

Rick

[DoubleEagle]

Yea - defaulting on our debt would make the previous financial crisis seem like a minor speed bump. Even most Replublicans within the financial sector understand the far reaching implications of this..."tea party" talking heads, not so much.

Most republicans? I am not aware of any republicans, or democrats for that matter, that consider defaulting on our debt an option. The US will not default, regardless of the government shutdown or debt ceiling debate.

[FirefightnRick]

Most republicans? I am not aware of any republicans, or democrats for that matter, that consider defaulting on our debt an option. The US will not default, regardless of the government shutdown or debt ceiling debate.

Where have you been dude? Raising kids these days I suspect?

Good to read your posts again.

Rick

[DoubleEagle]

Where have you been dude? Raising kids these days I suspect?

Good to read your posts again.

Rick

Hey Rick. I've been around, but don't get out as much as I used to. Hope all is well with the family.