Terrible

[northtexassigep]

Really glad to say my friends and I stayed for the lala and ball state game till the beautiful end. Saturday getting to see the players so excited running up to the students who stayed for them was a great feeling. I won't mention the players name on defense who was at Tavern just in case he is 20 but him and a few other guys had some cool things to say about the attendance. They all said they don't deserve a crowd yet, that they haven't done anything in a near decade and that the season is young. They thanked me for being there but believe if they keep doing their job it'll happen. they have hope that the MTSU game will be "live" as they put it and that the student side will show up in full force. I can only hope that is true and I'll do my best to get my whole fraternity to go in and not just half of us. I know Carlos Harris felt differently with his tweet he put out but I think it's cool that the team isn' bitter about the attendance as of right now. I think if MTSU and Rice doesn't see a good showing by the students we may start to have a real issue here but as of right now I'm not worried about. Beat Tulane and lets pack Apogee. 6 pm kickoff in October without a game of the century going on at the same time. No excuses for October 12th. Clear your schedule now

GMG

[UNTFan23]

Other than the occasional billboard along 35E and the rare TV advert*, living in Carrollton you'd never know that a major university with a FBS football program existed. The school could do a lot, both for athletics and academics, in terms of promotions/marketing.

* - I listen to satellite radio and so there may be radio adverts out there, I Just don't ever hear them.

Perhaps the "promotions" department for NT Athletics needs to increase its headcount if they cannot handle more than 16 different "promotions".

[PlummMeanGreen]

(1) 8 losing seasons in a row and this early in the season our borderliners and casual fans still believe we have a losing program. Folks, after 8 losing seasons in a row its still going to take more than a "1 and 1" season record before we start turning them away at the Apogee turnstiles. After all, our W/L record was 1 and 1 at kick-off last Saturday and on the other side of the coin, who of all this group who didn't show are going to even know that?

(2) 3 PM kick-off in September? I recall one September afternoon kick-off during the Fry Era. Even AD Fry quickly moved them to night games. We are not Texas or A&M and we did not play Alabama at Apogee last Saturday afternoon. North Texas might as well have had a kick-off in July because it was almost as hot. (Did anyone else see the Ball State players wilting in the 2'nd half)? Coach Mac has our team in "heat" shape and in Texas that is a good thing.

(3) You who don't think a DFW and statewide TV broadcast of this game didn't affect our turnstiles count all speak up? Uh, huh! I can't hear you?

If I had one 1 tell me I could have had 100 tell me we would not have a good crowd Saturday afternoon due to all the things listed above. Isn't the most surprising part of this discussion is how surprised some are acting here?

We all probably ought to move on from this after today. You who want to keep fanning the flames just to keep fanning the flames just keep doing what you feel you need to do with that which is still mostly all about........burning the whole damn barn down to kill a mouse and to further announce to all how "the freakin' sky is falling and Armegeddon is at hand."

GMG!

Edited September 16, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[HoustonEagle]

When it comes to marketing it's a simple equation. How many dollars are spent for each additional rear in a seat. We have a finite budget that is arguably too small to compete at CUSA level much less take us to the promised land. Where do you take the money from to give to marketing? Recruiting? Facilities? Basketball? What?

Personally I would spend every free dollar we have on the things that create long term winning programs. That in the end will put way more rears in the seats.

UNT Needs its T Boone in bad way. Money my friends is everything.

Edited September 16, 2013 by HoustonEagle

[PlummMeanGreen]

When it comes to marketing it's a simple equation. How many dollars are spent for each additional rear in a seat. We have a finite budget that is arguably too small to compete at CUSA level much less take us to the promised land. Where do you take the money from to give to marketing? Recruiting? Facilities? Basketball? What?

Personally I would spend every free dollar we have on the things that create long term winning programs. That in the end will put way more rears in the seats.

UNT Needs its T Boone in bad way. Money my friends is everything.

HoustonEagle, the UNT BOR's recently approved a budget to where we will be just fine in CUSA; matter of fact, so much better off than other newbies; furthermore, maybe even better off than at least one of its charter members.

North Texas had a T Boone Pickens type with Robert Randall Onstead (who almost outbid Drayton McClane for the Astros) but we didn't "develop" him early enough to get the big bucks, but our Library esplanade (sp?) mall did fine from the Robert Randall Onstead family.

UNT alum, the late R.R Onstead? How's 'bout Randalls Food Stores down there where you live and in my old neck of the woods as well? Hint: We have other Onstead-types out there who are still living, but our UNT officials need to get them while they're young.

GMG!

Edited September 16, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT90]

I wouldn't be too quick to assume who is responsible for the failure in promotions for one specific reason. Now, I don't know the guy at all, but depending upon which department you're in at any given time, there tend to be a lot of conversations that go something like this:

"Hey, can I--"

"No."

"But what if--"

"No."

"Do you think that--"

"No."

"Uh...okay."

It's not everywhere all of the time, but no matter how good you COULD be at your job, if you aren't given any leeway to actually get out there and DO it, you aren't to blame. And again, it could be that this Batchelder guy is just awful at promotions. But as we've seen before, there are some people who just hate any idea that isn't theirs...even if they don't have any ideas of their own either. So it could be that the people who want to get more done are just being shut down when they try. So before anybody wants to start calling for a change in terms of promotions personnel, it would probably be helpful to know exactly who is deciding that no promotion is better than a new promotion.

And adding to Plumm's rant...remember, at Apogee, you can actually SEE THE GAME you're attending!

The person ultimately responsible for promotions is the Athletic Director. If promotions are not being done properly, IT IS THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR'S RESPONSIBILITY AND HE NEEDS TO ACCEPT IT AND CHANGE IT.

Lots of "well, he isn't in charge of this" or "he isn't in charge of that." I don't give a rats ass because the ultimate responsibility is with the ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. If he can't look out into the stands, particularly the student section, and admit they have a huge early season promotional problem and find a way to change it, he just shouldn't be the Athletic Director.

And here is the rub. If we are successful this year, we will need promotions up and running at full speed to help PROMOTE A WINNING TEAM. If they are sitting on their asses now, they will continue to sit there and hope winning is enough.

Short term winning won't be enough.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I think football promotions planning that are aimed to bring out a significant number of fans happens in the Spring at most colleges and universities.

Since the opening of Apogee I always thought that all sales should be focussed to fill the Upper Wing Zone and just let the alumnus and student sides take care of themselves. If the Wing Zone is filled others will want to jump on this Mean Green Bandwagon and then buy sidelines seats (since those are the only seats that would be available) but that...........IMO.

Without a winning program at a DFW area NCAA football program its probably all a moot point truth be told, but winning programs in the DFW area still need promotions, too; and that to put the icing on the cake (or in our case to fill up the rest of a 31,000 seat stadium).

Other than lack of wins (which I think is now changing for the good) what keeps our program barefoot and pregnant are those empty seats and that just seems to not be high on our priority list at UNT and hasn't been for well over 30 plus years. I do not understand that at all.

I think we may also be leaning too heavily on our C-USA West Division schools maybe bringing more fans tp Apogee they they may actually bring, too. Fact is, we need "fill the butts with seats" promotions no matter our W/L records or who our opponent will be, too. Anyone else notice that Ohio U had a Band Day even at their season home opening game against you know who? I don't think UNT will ever have a Band Day knowing the politics of something as simple as that. What McAdow did annually as the UNT Marching Band Director seems to have become a mountain not worth climbing for others last few decades. I mean why have something that would put more fans into our stadium and what our fans would enjoy seeing come back as an annual tradition in the first place? Tradition?

GMG!

Edited September 16, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[JesseMartin]

Funny thoughts from recent replies:

1) I'd rather melt the opposing team's players for a win than have a huge turnout for the couple of weekends where it provides an edge.

2) Is it just me noticing, or are there a ton of Sig Eps on here? Or maybe they are just the only ones who use it en masse in their user names and signature lines?

3) When I was a kid, if you wanted to see a cheap game, you could get nosebleed seats for Phillies games for a buck. AND whatever promo item they were giving away that day. I think adults were like 2 bucks. Until there's enough demand to fill that baby at normal prices, sell Wing seats for that much - a buck for kids and 2 bucks for adults. If enough people go for it, you'll probably make more that way anyway...would you rather sell a couple dozen seats for current prices (I haven't had a reason to look...what is it, like 8 or 10 bucks?) and make a hundred dollars, or sell ALL of them and make a few thousand?

Apogee is awesome. Eventually, people will see what a great deal it is (and cheaper than traveling and parking to see any sporting event in Big D or FW), and with a couple of years of winning records I bet that thing is at least half full of people paying normal prices, with the rest being filled with (fingers crossed) some sort of promotion. Until then, make it so the whole family can park AND see the game for about 10-20 bucks!

We'll bring in more money with the larger volume and if they're the "young family just starting out with kids", in a few years they might be making the bigger bucks and just go ahead and buy season tickets. Their kids may love it and stay in town for college (bonus if they're a star athlete that wants to play for the team they grew up watching), and we develop lifelong fans out of that one little gesture, providing them with affordable local sports entertainment for their happy growing family.

Warm fuzzy feelings AND more income? Yes, please!

Edited September 17, 2013 by JesseMartin

[PlummMeanGreen]

Funny thoughts from recent replies:

1) I'd rather melt the opposing team's players for a win than have a huge turnout for the couple of weekends where it provides an edge.

2) Is it just me noticing, or are there a ton of Sig Eps on here? Or maybe they are just the only ones who use it en masse in their user names and signature lines?

3) When I was a kid, if you wanted to see a cheap game, you could get nosebleed seats for Phillies games for a buck. AND whatever promo item they were giving away that day. I think adults were like 2 bucks. Until there's enough demand to fill that baby at normal prices, sell Wing seats for that much - a buck for kids and 2 bucks for adults. If enough people go for it, you'll probably make more that way anyway...would you rather sell a couple dozen seats for current prices (I haven't had a reason to look...what is it, like 8 or 10 bucks?) and make a hundred dollars, or sell ALL of them and make a few thousand?

Apogee is awesome. Eventually, people will see what a great deal it is (and cheaper than traveling and parking to see any sorting event in Big D or FW), and with a couple of years of winning records I bet that thing is at least half full of people paying normal prices, with the rest being filled with (fingers crossed) some sort of promotion. Until then, make it so the whole family can park AND see the game for about 10-20 bucks!

We'll bring in more money with the larger volume and if they're the "young family just starting out with kids", in a few years they might be making the bigger bucks and just go ahead and buy season tickets. Their kids may love it and stay in town for college (bonus if they're a star athlete that wants to play for the team they grew up watching), and we develop lifelong fans out of that one little gesture, providing them with affordable local sports entertainment for their happy growing family.

Warm fuzzy feelings AND more income? Yes, please!

So eloquently said....it would have taken me 3 pages to say the same thing!

GMG!

[Green Dozer]

I will say, the Mean Green March this past Saturday was the best one since Apogee opened. Band marched up from stadium to meet team and it was really cool seeing the band and the cheer groups leading the way to the locker room.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Green Dozer

[HoustonEagle]

Funny thoughts from recent replies:

1) I'd rather melt the opposing team's players for a win than have a huge turnout for the couple of weekends where it provides an edge.

2) Is it just me noticing, or are there a ton of Sig Eps on here? Or maybe they are just the only ones who use it en masse in their user names and signature lines?

3) When I was a kid, if you wanted to see a cheap game, you could get nosebleed seats for Phillies games for a buck. AND whatever promo item they were giving away that day. I think adults were like 2 bucks. Until there's enough demand to fill that baby at normal prices, sell Wing seats for that much - a buck for kids and 2 bucks for adults. If enough people go for it, you'll probably make more that way anyway...would you rather sell a couple dozen seats for current prices (I haven't had a reason to look...what is it, like 8 or 10 bucks?) and make a hundred dollars, or sell ALL of them and make a few thousand?

Apogee is awesome. Eventually, people will see what a great deal it is (and cheaper than traveling and parking to see any sporting event in Big D or FW), and with a couple of years of winning records I bet that thing is at least half full of people paying normal prices, with the rest being filled with (fingers crossed) some sort of promotion. Until then, make it so the whole family can park AND see the game for about 10-20 bucks!

We'll bring in more money with the larger volume and if they're the "young family just starting out with kids", in a few years they might be making the bigger bucks and just go ahead and buy season tickets. Their kids may love it and stay in town for college (bonus if they're a star athlete that wants to play for the team they grew up watching), and we develop lifelong fans out of that one little gesture, providing them with affordable local sports entertainment for their happy growing family.

Warm fuzzy feelings AND more income? Yes, please!

The only problem with your suggested promotion is that it implies there is price elasticity of demand. I would argue that lower prices would have very little effect on the demand. As tickets to a UNT game are already quite cheap. If I don't want to come what is the difference between 5 and 10 bucks? I am a Astros fan. I don't really care to watch them play terrible baseball for 5 dollars or even free for that matter. But, for about ten years I would pay whatever they asked. I go to UNT games even though they have, for a lack of a better word, SUCKED for 8 years because somehow I have made it bigger than just sports in my head. Most people are not like those of us on this board and I am not certain we should expect them to be. It will take a couple of years of winning to get many people's attention. Edited September 17, 2013 by HoustonEagle

[Proud North Texan]

what happened to the emails that they use to send to the students before every and each game for the last two seasons?? we haven't gotten any of them this season!!

[UNT90]

what happened to the emails that they use to send to the students before every and each game for the last two seasons?? we haven't gotten any of them this season!!

Hopeful not a resnet problem.

That would be... ironic?

[meangreener]

what happened to the emails that they use to send to the students before every and each game for the last two seasons?? we haven't gotten any of them this season!!

I have gotten emails for all the games. What I've noticed is a concerning lack of on campus advertising.

[JesseMartin]

I think that for most Dentonites it may not matter, you're right. But for those just getting started, saving for a down payment on a house or a new minivan and not a lot of scratch to play with, if we reach out and they get the info, they may appreciate it quite a bit. Most in that position don't have enough play money to go see a Rangers game as a family...hell, even a TCU or SMU game. But if they save gas money, and the whole thing for the whole family costs less than 2 movie tickets (and they can bring their own food and drinks to tailgating), then UNT is not only in their price range, but is a bigger form of entertainment than you usually think you can afford in that situation. Heck, even now that we're doing moderately well, I don't run around blowing cash because we want to get a big chunk of college money saved early, so I look for good deals on just about everything too.

So of the hundred thousand or so in Denton, you're right and many will be averse to coming before we win. But you can bet that quite a few people in their first 5-10 years as a family would love it. And if you get the kiddie sports leagues to tell parents, half the soccer moms and baseball dads in town will probably get a group of kids from the teams together.

[JesseMartin]

I wanted to add this as a separate reply and not part of the above. Remember that TCU, SMU, UT, aTm, etc...they aren't interested in outreach like what I mentioned because they don't need to (or don't think they need to). To me, community outreach is akin to growing your alumni base while they're still in school. You don't look around for the people with money and then try to find a way to interest them...you try to get everyone involved early, because whether they are students or community members, developing an affinity for the school is what will make them be more involved and give back later in life.

These other schools don't go looking for people 25-40 years old with low to moderate income and new families, because most of them just don't give a shit. I'd like to think we're better than that. And of those people who dig what we do to involve them, some of them (or their kids) will be making big bucks someday and remember fondly how well UNT treated the community.

Some of you are hoping we "find" our T. Boone Pickens. That may have been the problem all along...one of these young couples (or their kids) could be that big donor in coming years. But if we don't show that we care until they have money, then we give them very little reason to hand us a fat check when they make it big.

[KRAM1]

Other than the occasional billboard along 35E and the rare TV advert*, living in Carrollton you'd never know that a major university with a FBS football program existed. The school could do a lot, both for athletics and academics, in terms of promotions/marketing.

* - I listen to satellite radio and so there may be radio adverts out there, I Just don't ever hear them.

Perhaps the "promotions" department for NT Athletics needs to increase its headcount if they cannot handle more than 16 different "promotions".

Amazing how you found your way to Denton and UNT for school. Not knowing that a major university existed and all.

Edit: I see someone can't take a joke! Nice.

Edited September 17, 2013 by KRAM1

[KRAM1]

Damn...It is easy to see the challenge just from reading this thread...for a bunch of the most ardent fans, it sure is a bunch full of excuses and whines. Biggest bunch of "glass half empty" folks I have ever been associated with in any way. Good grief people! Get a grip. The sky is NOT falling. Everyone had every excuse under the sun...time to move along. I remind everyone that we witnessed one of the greatest comebacks in UNT football history. Take some time to enjoy it for a change. You can get back into your " fire everyone and everything sucks at UNT" persona in a couple of days.