Arming Teachers in Arkansas

[Mean Green 93-98]

A state board is allowing 13 Arkansas school districts to continue employing teachers, administrators and other staff as armed security guards, despite a warning from the state's top attorney that the licensing law they relied upon is intended for private security companies.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ark-panel-schools-arm-teachers-staff-20227123

Is this how other places approach it as well? I have no idea, this is the first I've heard of anything like it.

[Censored by Laurie]

What could go wrong?

[meangreendork]

Seems like a liability nightmare in the making.

[MDH]

Maybe I will move back to Canada, good god.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

We should keep score...

Bad guys shot --------------------- 0

People shot accidentally -------- 0

[FirefightnRick]

We should keep score...

Bad guys shot --------------------- 0

People shot accidentally -------- 0

Ok, but let's add a category that is most likely to be used.

Bad guys shot --------------------- 0

People shot accidentally -------- 0

School Transportation Fatalities in Lake Hamilton and Clarksville....1

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/09/21/fatal-school-bus-accident-in-garland-county

http://www.thv11.com/video/1854292445001/1/Child-killed-in-Lake-Hamilton-school-bus-accident

Rick

Edited September 12, 2013 by FirefightnRick

[Censored by Laurie]

Ok, but let's add a category that is most likely to be used.

Bad guys shot --------------------- 0

People shot accidentally -------- 0

School Transportation Fatalities in Lake Hamilton and Clarksville....1

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/09/21/fatal-school-bus-accident-in-garland-county

http://www.thv11.com/video/1854292445001/1/Child-killed-in-Lake-Hamilton-school-bus-accident

Rick

If only that 7 year old had a gun.

[Army of Dad]

Maybe I will move back to Canada, good god.

Don't let the door hit you, eh.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--- I learned years ago that there are some people that never should use a gun...( mostly non-rural types) I would take them hunting and they would shoot without ever thinking about what was in the distance..... cows, pickup, road, barn, tractors, house, etc..... maybe this applies here or maybe not ... but I am guessing that it does. A bullet can travel 100's of yards or in some cases miles.

--- As for teachers having guns in schools ... who is say that one of them doesn't "lose it" and start shooting. This is not a good thing.... plus accidents are likely to happen. I have no problem with educators having one in a locked car or even with one locked up in the administrators office ... yes I know it would take a minute or two to get it but that is better than having one in the classroom with all that goes on. Very few in education (who actually understand the situation ) would support the idea of having teachers carrying one. I am now in my 47th year in front of a classroom and not once have I ever been in a school ( public school or college situation) that ever had an incident that having a gun would have been helpful... They are very, very rare but make news when they occur. An accident by someone in that time was far more likely.

--- I am not anti-gun... I own them ... but having a gun is not the answer to everything.

Edited September 12, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[LongJim]

Arm a security guard or two ahd have them visible at the school entrances every day, and in the building after school starts--like many schools ALREADY DO.

I don't know what is so difficult about this, and why it continues to be "Oh God, are we going to allow guns in the classroom now??"

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Arm a security guard or two ahd have them visible at the school entrances every day, and in the building after school starts--like many schools ALREADY DO.

I don't know what is so difficult about this, and why it continues to be "Oh God, are we going to allow guns in the classroom now??"

.

--- No problem with a security guard having a gun..... My problem is the classroom teacher and perhaps some administrators. That will lead to nothing but trouble and accidents as they do the job they are hired to do... teach and help students.

--- I could name a lot people I have worked with that I would hate to think they had a gun in a classroom... Too careless, too scatterbrained to make good decisions with one, and just don't have the "temperament for it" and might make a difficult situation much worse. Knew a couple that seemed to think they were "Wild Bill Hickok" and so gun crazy they would love to draw one on someone. .

Edited September 12, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Army of Dad]

.

--- No problem with a security guard having a gun..... My problem is the classroom teacher and perhaps some administrators. That will lead to nothing but trouble and accidents as they do the job they are hired to do... teach and help students.

--- I could name a lot people I have worked with that I would hate to think they had a gun in a classroom... Too careless, too scatterbrained to make good decisions with one, and just don't have the "temperament for it" and might make a difficult situation much worse. Knew a couple that seemed to think they were "Wild Bill Hickok" and so gun crazy they would love to draw one on someone. .

Oh good, more of the tired old 'blood in the streets' and 'wild west' talking points because those were so accurate when concealed carry was being considered.

[UNT90]

Here is an idea.

Why don't we stay the F out of Arkansas's business. It's their state. If they want to do it, more power to them.

Better yet, why doesn't the state of Arkansas stay the F out of the business of local school districts. Let them decide what the hell they want to do.

[JesseMartin]

The most poignant part of this discussion was showing the rational disconnect between problem and solution.

Problem: Some schools have had shootings.

Irrational Solution: Arm people who are already there.

Rational Solution: Hire a freaking security guard for the express purpose of providing security.

Did any of the schools with major shooting incidents have armed guards? If they did it was left out of the press coverage, as far as I've seen thus far. That solution is both preventative AND interventative.

Just because it doesn't happen often or in many schools doesn't mean you should be ill-prepared. But adding "armed security" to someone's (likely overburdened) set of responsibilities isn't always the best choice. If you want someone to provide security, hire them. If it's that important (and I agree with those who think that it is), then you can make room in the budget for it.

[UNT90]

The most poignant part of this discussion was showing the rational disconnect between problem and solution.

Problem: Some schools have had shootings.

Irrational Solution: Arm people who are already there.

Rational Solution: Hire a freaking security guard for the express purpose of providing security.

Did any of the schools with major shooting incidents have armed guards? If they did it was left out of the press coverage, as far as I've seen thus far. That solution is both preventative AND interventative.

Just because it doesn't happen often or in many schools doesn't mean you should be ill-prepared. But adding "armed security" to someone's (likely overburdened) set of responsibilities isn't always the best choice. If you want someone to provide security, hire them. If it's that important (and I agree with those who think that it is), then you can make room in the budget for it.

What is irrational is that you think you have a solution for people that you have never met and a part of the country that I would bet you have zero connection with.

Like I said, let each district decide what is best for their community.

[GrayEagle]

I agree with UNT90 here.

This is a solution to their problem by the people of Arkansas. It's their problem to solve as long as they abide by state and federal laws.

Apparently, they believe that arming teachers is both more cost effective and closer to the problem than hiring an outside agency or they would do the latter.

[JesseMartin]

What is irrational is that you think you have a solution for people that you have never met and a part of the country that I would bet you have zero connection with.

Like I said, let each district decide what is best for their community.

By that part of the thread I wasn't really thinking about Arkansas specifically, because I know it's been discussed here and in other parts of the country as well. I was just thinking about the most reasonable means, and also the fact that security visible around the entrances or in the halls would probably cause a deterrent before something even happened. I don't really have any intention of getting involved in anything related to Arkansas if I can help it

[Censored by Laurie]

Here is an idea.

Why don't we stay the F out of Arkansas's business. It's their state. If they want to do it, more power to them.

Better yet, why doesn't the state of Arkansas stay the F out of the business of local school districts. Let them decide what the hell they want to do.

Anarchist.

[UNT90]

Anarchist.

No, just believe that government practiced at the level closest to the population is most effective.

We will all find this out in the coming months.

[FirefightnRick]

What could go wrong?

What could go right?

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/othwr/principal&gun.htm

The shooter was Luke Woodham. On that day in 1997, Woodham slit his mother's throat then grabbed a .30-30 lever action deer rifle. He packed the pockets of his trench coat with ammo and headed off to Pearl High School, in Pearl, Miss.

The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car. His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

Rick

Edited September 17, 2013 by FirefightnRick

[oldguystudent]

--- I am not anti-gun... I own them ... but having a gun is not the answer to everything.

I really get the sense from some that life is just one big game of GTA. I've got friends who I swear fantasize about putting one in somebody's head someday. It's got nothing to do with justice or protection. It's an innate desire to cause harm.

I've got other friends who are avid hunters, have learned responsible gun ownership, care and maintenance since they could walk. We've gone out to public land in the middle of the country so they could show me how to fire some pretty high powered rifles. The distance from which I could hit a human sized target was astounding to me. If I ever need to defend my home from intruders a couple thousand yards away, I think I've got bigger problems than local gun legislation.

I've got other friends who spent time in the Marines and now simply can't live without their handguns. They get antsy if they go a week without a visit to the shooting range. But they keep those things disassembled and locked in the trunk of their cars, ammo in a separate locked case, and consistently exercise the highest level of self control whenever any form of confrontation arises.

As for me, hey, you wanna own guns? Have at it. Don't bother me one bit. I'm marginally fascinated with how they work and whatnot. But I will never own one. I never, ever want it on my shoulders that I acted in haste and caused potentially lethal harm to another because I made a bad decision in a snap judgment. I've survived 41 years on this planet, many of them in much, much rougher neighborhoods than anybody here will ever experience. If somebody pops me today, eh, it's been a good run. If somebody causes harm to my kid, well, a gun ain't gonna cause more harm than I will personally.

[forevereagle]

I've got friends who I swear fantasize about putting one in somebody's head someday. It's got nothing to do with justice or protection. It's an innate desire to cause harm.

You should probably reevaluate these relationships.

[oldguystudent]

You should probably reevaluate these relationships.

Well, like family, sometimes you've known somebody for several decades, and you're kinda stuck with each other for better for for worse.

[forevereagle]

Well, like family, sometimes you've known somebody for several decades, and you're kinda stuck with each other for better for for worse.

Good point. Maybe you should buy a gun. You know, just in case.