I expect at least 7 wins, I guess that makes me a bad fan.

[KingDL1]

I am tired of us setting North Texas records for seasons without a winning record, I want, expect and need a winning season this year. I expect 7 wins, I damn well better get it.

I have not been happy with the Offensive coordinator, or how he has prepared the offense in the past. Winning cures all, I would not have given him another chance if I had control. I hope he gets his crap together for this season and gets it done.

I did a little research, we are entering our 19th season since returning to Division 1a FBS,

In those 18 years back to 1995, the year some of our incoming freshman were no doubt born, we have had 3 winning seasons.

We have had 8 wins against FBS opponents that finished their seasons with a winning record in those 18 years in some 212 games.

Last year against Louisianan-Lafayette was first and only win against a team that finished with a winning season in 11 years,

In those 18 years of 212 games we won a total of 70 for a winning percentage of 33.02%.

Of those 70 wins 41 of the wins were against D1aa(FCS) teams any record and D1a(FBS) teams that finished the season with 3 wins or less in the season played. Which makes up 58.57% of our wins.

Of those 70 wins 8 were against teams that finished the season with winning records for a total of 11.43% the wins we have had in the last 18 years.

But the number that is worst of all is based on the last 18 years we have only 3.77% of beating a team that will have a winning record for the year.

Edited August 26, 2013 by KingDL1

[KRAM1]

Why in the world would that make you a bad fan? No, it makes you pretty realistic in your expectations I would say...more hopeful than some, less than others. Your call.

Edit: Really people? Really? Seriously?

Edited August 26, 2013 by KRAM1

[UNT90]

I am tired of us setting North Texas records for seasons without a winning record, I want, expect and need a winning season this year. I expect 7 wins, I damn well better get it.

I have not been happy with the Offensive coordinator, or how he has prepared the offense in the past. Winning cures all, I would not have given him another chance if I had control. I hope he gets his crap together for this season and gets it done.

I did a little research, we are entering our 19th season since returning to Division 1a FBS,

In those 18 years back to 1995, the year some of our incoming freshman were no doubt born, we have had 3 wining seasons.

We have had 8 wins against FBS opponents that finished their seasons with a wining record in those 18 years in some 212 games.

Last year against Louisianan-Lafayette was first and only win against a team that finished with a wining season in 11 years,

In those 18 years of 212 games we won a total of 70 for a winning percentage of 33.02%.

Of those 70 wins 41 of the wins were against D1aa(FCS) teams any record and D1a(FBS) teams that finished the season with 3 wins or less in the season played. Which makes up 58.57% of our wins.

Of those 70 wins 8 were against teams that finished the season with winning records for a total of 11.43% the wins we have had in the last 18 years.

But the number that is worst of all is based on the last 18 years we have only 3.77% of beating a team that will have a winning record for the year.

Wow, those are some hard numbers for me to look at.

Be prepared to be blasted and lambasted by the usual suspects who only accept sunshine and puppy breath.

[BillySee58]

Winning games we aren't supposed to. That's our next step IMO. Especially on the road.

[NT03]

What makes you a bad is not flying over these closed practices & giving us some footage

[ColoradoEagle]

Honest question: What causes us to turn the corner? I realize there may be a .500 or winning season here and there, but the perception is so amazingly negative throughout DFW, that it's sometimes hard to tell what will turn that around. It's almost beyond people not caring to the point of people wanting us to lose.

[KingDL1]

Honest question: What causes us to turn the corner? I realize there may be a .500 or winning season here and there, but the perception is so amazingly negative throughout DFW, that it's sometimes hard to tell what will turn that around. It's almost beyond people not caring to the point of people wanting us to lose.

We need to do it soon even after these dark years we are over all 481-466-35 we need something like two decades of solid wining to get us back to our old winning percentage

Edited August 26, 2013 by KingDL1

[casual fan]

Wow, those are some hard numbers for me to look at.

Be prepared to be blasted and lambasted by the usual suspects who only accept sunshine and puppy breath.

I have 2 older bird dogs and prefer to hunt when its overcast and cool. The breath from my English setter is not minty fresh.

But here's the thing, she's an expert on finding quail. If she locks up on point, I believe her.

When groups with good track records & outside of UNT start predicting us to go 9-3 or make us 15 point favorites, I'm not going to dismiss them right off the bat.

Admittedly, I'm a homer who wants UNT to win every game.

Edited August 26, 2013 by casual fan

[Greendylan]

Good research. Those numbers are, of course, quite sobering. However, I do think it's worth pointing out that they may be SLIGHTLY unfair. For many years, few Sun Belt teams had winning records, so we didn't really have the opportunity to tally wins against such teams. The opportunities we did have to play teams with winning records were often money games on the road.

You are correct, though. We have a coach in his third year and a senior-heavy team. The past eight years have been filled with excuses--some valid, most not. The time to win is now.

[emmitt01]

I'd like to see those numbers if you subtracted the Dodge debacle. I don't think it can be overhyped just how much of a failure that experiment was.

[Green Mean]

Anything less than a .500 season should warrant a serious look at Coach Mac and his job security here in my opinion.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Edited August 26, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[KingDL1]

I'd like to see those numbers if you subtracted the Dodge debacle. I don't think it can be overhyped just how much of a failure that experiment was.

It would have been nice for all of us if we could just slide winning seasons in place of the Dodge years, and well have a group memory change. I am thinking like in Men in Black.

Jay: Wait a minute. You just flash that thing, it erases the Mean Green Nation's memory, and you just make up a new one?

Kay: A standard issue neuralyzer.

Edited August 26, 2013 by KingDL1

[untjim1995]

I posted about this earlier this year, but if you go back to the days since ALL of college football became integrated (early 70s), North Texas (State) has had two stretches of good-to-great teams as a FBS (I-A) member: the mid-70s under Fry (great) and the early 00s under Dickey (good). I think I found that we had about 4 winning years under Fry and 3 winning years under Dickey. Otherwise, its been a disaster as a FBS member and it has been irrelevant as a FCS member over that timeframe.

Wanting 7 wins this year doesn't make you a bad fan--its just that us getting to 7 wins is a stretch. Most publications have us ranked in the bottom 20 FBS teams. Yes, we play a lot of other bottom 20 type teams, too, but to go from 4 wins to 7 wins with our DL being that thin and our QB being nothing better than mediocre at best, doesn't help you get to 7 wins very easily. My prediction is 4-8, with a 6-6 opportunity. You could be right to expect 7 wins, but I'm not there yet, not with this team and its many questions.

Coach Mac knows that a 7-5 year gets him an extension, as does a 6-6 year. But I just don't see us getting that kind of jump this season. I suspect that if we see any improvement, it will be to get back to 5 wins. Just to make sure no one misunderstands my post, I don't find it as acceptable, I find it most likely to happen.

[GrayEagle]

Honest question: What causes us to turn the corner? I realize there may be a .500 or winning season here and there, but the perception is so amazingly negative throughout DFW, that it's sometimes hard to tell what will turn that around. It's almost beyond people not caring to the point of people wanting us to lose.

That is a good question. Don't set our posture based on the DFW media. TCU has had uncanny recent success and SMU was pulled from the doldrums since June Jones became the coach. On the other hand, the latter Dickey and Dodge eras were the worst in our history. So, we are starting from a much lower position and the media knows it. Make no mistake, the media is a large factor in our attitude about certain teams until proven otherwise.

To me, the greatest improvement factor for this team has been attitude. I've seen more positive talk from these players than any time that I can remember and I've witnessed a lot of football seasons (of course, my memory is slipping badly). There is an old adage...if you don't think you can your're probably right. That seemed to prevail in recent years but now this team believes in themselves. The effort is there. A new conference is helpful to form that attitude.

A second factor is the schedule. The only Top 20 team on our schedule is Georgia. They are, in fact, the only P5 conference team on our schedule. We catch Southern Miss the year after the only winless debacle in their history. We play Louisiana Tech after their losing most of their first two units to graduation. Even Tulsa should be much weaker because they lost so many from the best defense in CUSA (by far). Ohio and Ball State had good records last year but have lost some key players. Two of the better teams on this schedule, Rice and Middle Tennessee, we catch at home (where we are beginning to build a distinct advantage).

The talent has improved but not overwhelmingly. What has improved is the depth and that will help negate potential injury problems. With the exception of linebacker and possibly wide receiver, we could lose a starter and hardly miss a beat. Our recruiting is slowly improving and we should know this season if transfers help pick up some slack.

The last factor is conditioning. Perhaps it is the first factor. We are bigger, stronger, faster and better conditioned than any team that I can recall.

So, maybe it's the perfect storm. We are playing some teams that would normally beat us, at their lowest. We seem to be improving in all areas. We have no baggage in this conference yet. The coaching staff has to coach their asses off or their jobs are in jeopardy. It's where want to and have to come together. I like our chances.

[ColoradoEagle]

My question is more to the point of TCU is quickly becoming Fort Worth's team. The DMN and most media outlets report SMU before us, if they even mention us at all. When I talk with people, they're shocked that UNT fans exist.

At what point do we become relevant? And I'm not talking about being considered a major power in the state. I'm talking about being able to go into most stores and see UNT gear next to TCU and SMU. Being able to fill up a modest sized stadium. Stop recruiting at the bottom of whatever conference we're in.

Some of it starts with winning, but there's more to it than that.

[UNT90]

My question is more to the point of TCU is quickly becoming Fort Worth's team. The DMN and most media outlets report SMU before us, if they even mention us at all. When I talk with people, they're shocked that UNT fans exist.

At what point do we become relevant? And I'm not talking about being considered a major power in the state. I'm talking about being able to go into most stores and see UNT gear next to TCU and SMU. Being able to fill up a modest sized stadium. Stop recruiting at the bottom of whatever conference we're in.

Some of it starts with winning, but there's more to it than that.

By beating a ranked team in a bowl season.

[untjim1995]

My question is more to the point of TCU is quickly becoming Fort Worth's team. The DMN and most media outlets report SMU before us, if they even mention us at all. When I talk with people, they're shocked that UNT fans exist.

At what point do we become relevant? And I'm not talking about being considered a major power in the state. I'm talking about being able to go into most stores and see UNT gear next to TCU and SMU. Being able to fill up a modest sized stadium. Stop recruiting at the bottom of whatever conference we're in.

Some of it starts with winning, but there's more to it than that.

I believe that the answer is sustained winning. We have had two stretches of sustained winning in 40 years that were about 3-4 years each. In the 70s, when we were really good, we beat SWC teams and other well-known programs while posting winning seasons. The only problem was that we weren't in the main club of the time, the SWC, plus we didn't even have another conference to help us get a bowl bid. WIth no bowl bid, Hayden Fry realized that he had done as much as he could in Denton. In the Dickey SBC years where we ran the table in conference play, almost no one except the diehards gave our program any credit because the conference schedule was full of teams that no one had heard of or cared about, which is why we never really saw much of an attendance bump like we probably would today. Even Dickey himself thought he would be gone from UNT to a better job, which is why recruiting dropped off so much.

Combine this with the fact that TCU has its own hometown media and managed to put together some amazing seasons with its tradition, they got themselves into an AQ league that will always get great coverage from the media and fans. SMU has managed to right its ship enough to get more attention than it normally would, but their money and the Dallas media do a great job of trumpeting them up to the metroplex, in part because of their tradition and its location.

It will take us winning conference titles, winning bowl games, beating OOC teams that people care about, and increasing attendance at home games to change this with the DFW media and the state media. Otherwise, it will look like it has for the last 40 years in Denton. The biggest hurdle to this, besides winning, is getting Dentonites to not only care about UNT athletics, but to stop being an antagonist against its presence in our community--this includes residents of Denton, the faculty at UNT, and the DRC, which is the only media outlet we have that gives us coverage. That seems to be happening more today than ever, but we have a loooonnnnnnggggg way to go.

[ColoradoEagle]

Thanks for the response, and I agree for the most part. My next question then becomes how long do we stick with McCarney? On one hand we need to establish some sort of consistency here, but on the other hand, would a losing season in his third year really be acceptable? Especially when coaches at schools like Louisiana-Lafayette and Arkansas State are able to accomplish such a dramatic turnaround so quickly.

Of course I'm waiting for this season to play out before condemning anything, but it is a bit scary that we're heading into the third season and expect 4-8 as far more likely than 8-4.

[oldguystudent]

Seven wins? In a row?

[KingDL1]

Seven wins? In a row?

I would love 7 in a row starting with Idawho.

[meangreener]

My question is more to the point of TCU is quickly becoming Fort Worth's team. The DMN and most media outlets report SMU before us, if they even mention us at all. When I talk with people, they're shocked that UNT fans exist.

At what point do we become relevant? And I'm not talking about being considered a major power in the state. I'm talking about being able to go into most stores and see UNT gear next to TCU and SMU. Being able to fill up a modest sized stadium. Stop recruiting at the bottom of whatever conference we're in.

Some of it starts with winning, but there's more to it than that.

Okay, back away from the panic button.

This town is a bandwagon town unlike any other. They only support a winner.

There were very, very few Rangers fans prior to 2008. There were no Mav fans prior to Dirk. There are not a lot of Stars fans left anymore (sad.) SMU gets publicity but has horrendous attendance and no fans...the only reason SMU gets any publicity is because they're known (mainly for obvious reasons.) TCU won recently.

The only exception is the Cowboys, but it's starting to look like even the Cowboys are fallible these days.

Personally, I'm amazed that we average 18K despite being SO BAD and the local sentiment around UNT in a bandwagon town like this.

The growing disconnect in personality between D/FW and Denton doesn't help things, either.

Edited August 26, 2013 by meangreener

[untjim1995]

Okay, back away from the panic button.

This town is a bandwagon town unlike any other. They only support a winner.

There were very, very few Rangers fans prior to 2008. There were no Mav fans prior to Dirk. There are not a lot of Stars fans left anymore (sad.) SMU gets publicity but has horrendous attendance and no fans...the only reason SMU gets any publicity is because they're known (mainly for obvious reasons.) TCU won recently.

The only exception is the Cowboys, but it's starting to look like even the Cowboys are fallible these days.

Personally, I'm amazed that we average 18K despite being SO BAD and the local sentiment around UNT in a bandwagon town like this.

The growing disconnect in personality between D/FW and Denton doesn't help things, either.

Houston is no different--check out Astros games now. Before UH got good again, they had trouble getting people out to games, too.

Its not just DFW, by a long shot.

[meangreener]

Houston is no different--check out Astros games now. Before UH got good again, they had trouble getting people out to games, too.

Its not just DFW, by a long shot.

Um, Astros are an exception...we've lost legions of fans due to the AL move, the embarrassing budget, no TV deal, ruining Minute Maid Park, poor marketing, trading away every fan favorite, overcharging for tickets, not allowing coolers (until this year), overcharging for food, no game promotions, etc.

A fanbase can only take so much neglect. Astros have historically had really good attendance and averaged over 30K at Minute Maid until 2010. Astrodome attendance was quite solid year in and year out as well even as it fell into disrepair.

And up until the last few years, UH was regarded as a community college in the city and didn't really have much history to lean back on. That's like calling Philadelphia a bad sports town because Temple has/had bad attendance.

The Oilers, Rockets, Texans, Dynamo (hell, even the Aeros until they moved them) had incredibly solid support. Love Ya Blue? Astros sellout streak from 04-08?

DFW is 100% bandwagon town. Not as bad as Miami though. But every team except the Cowboys has had attendance problems...and the Cowboys would if Jerry wasn't in the pockets of every businessman in town...that stadium is all suits and no fans, even Aikman noticed it.

Edited August 26, 2013 by meangreener

[Stan R]

ruining Minute Maid Park,

What's the story here?