Brock-Athlete vs Smarts

GOMG2013 · August 20, 2013

A few weeks ago there was a discussion about QBs and picking up the offense, and I stated that Brock may just be an athlete that can throw instead if a true QB.

There has been comments since then that hints that may be the case and may be the reason he has had trouble. No one has questioned that he has the best physical tools, so its obvious UT has to do with execution. Whenever DTs positive attributes are mentioned, it has to do with intangibles like smarts, leadership, knowledge etc.

I can only conclude that Brock is not picking up the system the way the coaches want him to. He was good in a free style environment on the scout

Team, but in an organized offense he is struggling. One of the biggest problems for a playground athlete.

I have seen this happen several times on all levels with the fan base. They see an athlete that is capable of making plays and we want them in there. They show a lot more athletic ability than the starter. All we figure is if that person got a shot, they could take the job.

Most OCs want thier QB to be an extension of themselves. I dont have much info from college coaches, but im sure its the same. They want to be on the same page as thier QB and they want the QB to make the right reads and choices. Some coaches do this to a fault. The system is more important that putting the best athletes on the field. The players that knows the system will play while the dumber, but more athletic players will sit.

A good coaching staff that likes to make adjustments and try new things will find ways to get thier athletes and playmakers in the game. They will tweak things and make thier system fit the personell. From the looks of it, our coaching staff is not creative like that.

Brock is going to continue to have issues if he cannot pick up the offense. And if I had to guess, its more about reading the defense than knowing the offensive plays. Brocks improvising looks good to the casual fan, but OCs want you making the right decisions and choices. Its cool a few times, but if they dont trust your decision making, yiu wont play QB.

On the other hand, you have a good decision maker, but he only can pull it off occasionally.

I have seen it on all levels, the one that knows the system and makes the right decisions is going to play. most coaches are terrified of unpredictable QBs. They have a short memory of that outstanding ability and they do not like mental mistakes at that position. Its going to take some tweaking and creativity if we are going to ever use Brock. Either that, or he is going to have to work extra hard on reading defenses and making the right decisions.

Edited August 20, 2013 by GOMG2013

jdennis82 · August 20, 2013

I have to admit that I really don't like the way this thread is titled.

I don't think your intent is to say that Brock is unintelligent, but simply hasn't had enough time to learn the entirety of the system. Because of this, DT's advantage includes the ability for play callers to utilize the entire play book comfortably.

A statement of experience more so than intellect.

Of the two scenarios, generally, I tend prefer a player who allows the coach to maximize talent across the field (via expanded playbook) - absent a monumental difference in athleticism.

UNFORTUNATELY, the thread title reads too simply, identifies a specific player, and infers a lesser intelligence which doesn't work toward those on this board whose objective is to support these players and program.

GOMG2013 · August 20, 2013

I dont think experience is the issue. I am going to assume Brock knows the unt playbook. he has had more than enough time. Its reading defenses and making the right decision in certain situations that he will have to learn. Presnap reads.

The athlete vs smarts is pretty much a debate a lot of coaching staffs have to make, at several different positions too. Do you put the best athletes out there or the ones who knows the system and makes less mistakes? Some coaches are going to put the best athletes out there and tweak thier system.

am I saying Brock is dumb, if the other side is smart? No. that was an assumption...the way and style that he approaches the game is more athletic. He is used to his athleticism and ability to improvise to get him out of trouble. He is not a coach on the field and does not approach the game as a chess match. Its like trying to get favre to play like Peyton Manning.

Brock is going to have to approach the game differently. Im not sure if we can depend on the coaching staff to meet him half way and be creative enough to make a system and call plays where he can be used. Instead, lets turn this athlete into a pocket passer.

PlummMeanGreen · August 20, 2013

Poor Brock, even before he plays in a real football game, he really has to be 2'nd guessing himself (among others as well) about choosing North Texas since he's been so analyzed, bi-sected an di-sected and all but booted off our team by some of our fan base (few of whom the younger set have ever seen a winning UNT football program; that is, more "W" seasons than "L" seasons, during each of their own respective 4 or 5 years as North Texas students. As a student, I saw 4 UNT teams either at .500 or above with some wins over some fairly impressive schools that some of our younger alums today seem to only want to poke fun at. Had their been as many bowls back then as today, well, just use your imagination.

One other thing: Those who are now being the most negative fans will be some of the very ones leading the parade and waving the Mean Green flag when this football program starts winning again and with a few from that group who will even say............ "I've been behind you all the time, Mean Green, and you, too, Brock."

Oh well, whatever it takes to get them on the sunny side of life again. Trust me, there is no future in Negative Ned'ville in Mean Green Country, I know because I've tinkered with all that myself as I tried to even dictate who should and should not be on staff up there. It was not a good time for this alum to be that way and I suppose gaining in years had to teach me that. Unfortunately, I was just a slow learner. With that I can save some of you some time and tell you not to wait as long. This I do know....I am a North Texas alum--win or lose-- and pretty damn proud of being one

Please do consider being a bit more sensitive about our very Mean Green football players whose very presence are the reason we are all on this message board with some posters probably even getting carpal tunnel because of it and..........have a great first football season at the U of North Texas, Brock Berglund)!

GMG!

Edited August 20, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

TIgreen01 · August 20, 2013

Poor Brock, even before he plays in a real football game, he really has to be 2'nd guessing himself (among others as well) about choosing North Texas since he's been so analyzed, bi-sected an di-sected and all but booted off our team by some of our fan base (few of whom the younger set have ever seen a winning UNT football program; that is, more "W" seasons than "L" seasons, during each of their own respective 4 or 5 years as North Texas students. As a student, I saw 4 UNT teams either at .500 or above with some wins over some fairly impressive schools that some of our younger alums today seem to only want to poke fun at. Had their been as many bowls back then as today, well, just use your imagination.

One other thing: Those who are now being the most negative fans will be some of the very ones leading the parade and waving the Mean Green flag when this football program starts winning again and with a few from that group who will even say............ "I've been behind you all the time, Mean Green, and you, too, Brock."

Oh well, whatever it takes to get them on the sunny side of life again. Trust me, there is no future in Negative Ned'ville in Mean Green Country, I know because I've tinkered with all that myself as I tried to even dictate who should and should not be on staff up there. It was not a good time for this alum to be that way and I suppose gaining in years had to teach me that. Unfortunately, I was just a slow learner. With that I can save some of you some time and tell you not to wait as long. This I do know....I am a North Texas alum--win or lose-- and pretty damn proud of being one

Please do consider being a bit more sensitive about our very Mean Green football players whose very presence are the reason we are all on this message board with some posters probably even getting carpal tunnel because of it and..........have a great first football season at the U of North Texas, Brock Berglund)!

GMG!

He'd get the same treatment anywhere else that had hoped to pencil him in as the starter. Especially after the HC gushed so much about how awesome this kid was. Now he's not only NOT starting, but looks to be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. Instead of whining about our fanbase, I challenge you to find a fanbase that wouldn't be disappointed by that!

As for me personally, I'm fine with the unknown BB taking more time to get ready. We've got a 5th year senior returning at QB. He's not splashy, but he damn sure knows the offense better than any other QB on the depth chart and really has nowhere to go but up from last season's up and down performance. We know he's got good games in him and really needs to work on eliminating the bad ones. Throw in the carrot that it sounds like the coaches are going to trust our depth at that position to open up the designed QB runs a bit more. Last year we were screwed if DT went down, so our offense schemed in everything possible to keep him upright. I'm optimistic that we're going to see an improved offense this year, no matter who starts at QB.

Green P1 · August 20, 2013

So he's not a coach on the field? You're trying to tell me that he gets by on pure natural ability?

untjim1995 · August 20, 2013

So he's not a coach on the field? You're trying to tell me that he gets by on pure natural ability?

He's not really a lunchpail guy, even though he has some similarities of lunchpail guys...

KRAM1 · August 20, 2013

The hypocrisy that is GMG.Com these days is simply stunning!

FirefightnRick · August 20, 2013

Good post 2013. I thought of the NFL's Vince Young when I read that.

Rick

GOMG2013 · August 20, 2013

So he's not a coach on the field? You're trying to tell me that he gets by on pure natural ability?

The results and coaching staff is saying that. Not me. An OC wants the offense to run as if they were younger and out there running it themselves. im sure the coaches wish they could put DTs brain, in Brocks head because you cant make DT more athletic.

I am basing what I wrote on a few clues from articles and interviews. Mac has not mentioned athletic ability when discussing why DT won the job, or why the QB has struggled. Not once have I heard DT improved in this area or that area from an athletic standpoint. Its all been intangibles. Less mistakes, leadership, etc. in vitos article he talked about BB leaving the pocket, knowing the offense, etc. not hard to put 2 & 2 together without them just coming out and saying it.

meangreener · August 20, 2013

Self-imposed absence from this place starting today.

Jesus Christ.

Stan R · August 20, 2013

Self-imposed absence from this place starting today.
Jesus Christ.

Not Cool.

- JC

GL2Greatness · August 20, 2013

Good post 2013. I thought of the NFL's Vince Young when I read that.
Rick

with the exception that Vince actually played in the NFL......he was offensive rookie of the year in 2006.....he had the best record of any of the QB starters in the 2006 class (actual on field performance not high school and college press clippings performance)

in 2009 he was the NFL comeback player of the year and he finished the Titans with a 30-17 record as a starter

he may not have been the greatest NFL QB out there, but at least he was able to actually get on the field, play and win way more games than he lost as a starter instead of just moving around from place to place showing everyone his high school and college press clippings and wondering why he was not on the field

#Hit4Plus2MoralVictories

@RamonFlanigan #LearnNames

GOMG2013 · August 20, 2013

UT also abandoned trying to make vince a certain type of QB and finally just let him play a style that fit his abilities.

JRock · August 20, 2013

I think Brock is lightning in a bottle. Patience young Jedi.

Green Crazy · August 20, 2013

i've heard that this is what's keeping berglund from moving up the depth charts. luckily, he's only a soph and that can get better. unluckily, that doesn't help us this year.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Green Crazy

FirefightnRick · August 20, 2013

with the exception that Vince actually played in the NFL......he was offensive rookie of the year in 2006.....he had the best record of any of the QB starters in the 2006 class (actual on field performance not high school and college press clippings performance)

in 2009 he was the NFL comeback player of the year and he finished the Titans with a 30-17 record as a starter

he may not have been the greatest NFL QB out there, but at least he was able to actually get on the field, play and win way more games than he lost as a starter instead of just moving around from place to place showing everyone his high school and college press clippings and wondering why he was not on the field

#Hit4Plus2MoralVictories

@RamonFlanigan #LearnNames

Yet I still think of Vince Young when I read 2013's post.

Rick

adman · August 21, 2013

Marteleus Bennett - the A&M TE that was ultimately drafted by the cowboys said in an interview, to paraphrase: "Pro football is tougher than college. In college I would just out athlete a guy. In the pros everyone is an athlete so now I have to learn the playbook and run the plays."

Brock may be suffering from this a bit - always being simply able to out athlete others. This coaching staff may not believe in that approach.

eulessismore · August 21, 2013

It's only natural for a young man to rely on his natural abilities. There is some point in college where that doesn't work; hopefully that occurs early and is overcome.

ADLER · August 21, 2013

I think Brock is lightning in a bottle. Patience young Jedi.

I'm with you on that JRock, I hope that in time Brock has the ability to be our version of GJ Kinne.

FroggyStyle · August 21, 2013

You guys are in such denial over Berglund, its not even funny. First it was he's going to come and outperform everybody while on scout team. He did alright but wasn't flat out impressive. Then it you all changed it to he's going to win the job in Spring Training, he didn't do that and everybody started talking about his "injury". You guys backtracked once more and started touting about how he was going to heal and blow everybody away during Fall Camp. He ended up getting beat out by a true freshman. NOW you guys are claiming that he hasn't had to time to grasp the playbook despite being here for over a year and despite the fact that a true freshman has picked up on the playbook more than he has. Many of you are also claiming that McCarney is saving him for conference play which doesn't make a lick of sense. If he's as good as many of you are trying to convince yourselves he is, then he'd be starting out of the gate.

Thank God we have Pachall and Boykin, not only would both of them outplay all of UNTs qbs but Id stack them against almost any qb in the country. Esp Pachall.

Edited August 21, 2013 by FroggyStyle

FirefightnRick · August 21, 2013

Pachall's lucky he's not in prison.

Rick

drex · August 21, 2013

Plunk your magic twanger, froggie and get back to your cowchip inventory job in Fort Worth...we'll do OK and so will the TCU this year.

oldguystudent · August 21, 2013

Dudes, seriously.

outoftown · August 21, 2013

Marteleus Bennett - the A&M TE that was ultimately drafted by the cowboys said in an interview, to paraphrase: "Pro football is tougher than college. In college I would just out athlete a guy. In the pros everyone is an athlete so now I have to learn the playbook and run the plays."

Brock may be suffering from this a bit - always being simply able to out athlete others. This coaching staff may not believe in that approach.

Assuming this is indeed the case: I really do wonder if this is the right way to go for the coaching staff. I don't belive that teams at C-USA level can afford to expect that the players will adapt to the system primarily instead of the coaching staff at least partially adapting to the weaknesses and strenghts of their players with the highest potential. If you got the my-way-or-the-high-way attitude you better have a lot of players with the same high potential. I don't belive we do, particularly at the QB spot.

Edited August 21, 2013 by outoftown