I think I owe RV an apology

untjim1995 · July 19, 2013

I have often criticized RV for our poor OOC home scheduling, in part because I think our fanbase now has a stadium that can handle larger fanbases from bigger name schools. Nebraska was always a favorite target of mine to get down here for a game, since they no longer play here. After reading the link below, however, the Big Ten and SEC appear to be on the same page as the Big 12 in scheduling 9 games versus conference opponents for the future. If that is the case, getting a home and home series with an AQ team is going to be even harder for the future. As you will read, if NIU, who just went to a BCS bowl game, has to deal with Nebraska buying out their one home game (at Soldier Field, no less) in a series that will now have NIU travel to Nebraska FOUR times in eight years, then us getting Iowa for a return game in Denton appears to have been nothing more than a pipedream for an idiot like myself.

I love college football. But sometimes, its stories like this that remind me why I am increasingly not liking college football. I know I'm in the minority on this, but the AQ schism from the NCAA that seems to be bandied about even more of late, can't happen soon enough. I'd rather these semi-pro factories just play themselves.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/19/cincinnati-nebraska-agree-to-future-home-and-home/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

MeanGreenTexan · July 19, 2013

Although it doesn't look good right now, I still want to see how it shakes out.

I think we finally have the resources (as evidenced by the willingness to pay Idaho to come here) to do some moving & shaking. And if it comes down that the two Iowa games are our two "paycheck" games for those years, that's fine. I'd rather it be them than LSU/UT/OU again. I think the sticking point is that we currently have Iowa & Tennessee away in the same season, which we don't need.

untjim1995 · July 19, 2013

Although it doesn't look good right now, I still want to see how it shakes out.

I think we finally have the resources (as evidenced by the willingness to pay Idaho to come here) to do some moving & shaking. And if it comes down that the two Iowa games are our two "paycheck" games for those years, that's fine. I'd rather it be them than LSU/UT/OU again. I think the sticking point is that we currently have Iowa & Tennessee away in the same season, which we don't need.

I agree on that final point. And I also agree on Iowa as a terrific $$$ game opponent, one that should be copied for years to come, instead of playing Southern teams from the SEC, Big XII, or ACC.

I just thought Iowa was a team we would see at Apogee from time to time. When we didn't schedule them for a home and home series, I was very disappointed. But now that I see what Nebraska has done to NIU, we never had a chance to play them here. As a matter of fact, I believe that the Big Ten and the Pac-12 have a scheduling agreement to play one OOC game against each other every year, so that leaves two games left to schedule in OOC. Most of those schools are going to host two MAC schools for those games, so that is how it goes for those of us that are poor, I suppose.

Harry · July 19, 2013

The American dream has always been "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

I fear in many ways this dream is evaporating and college football is no different. That being said, I would have NEVER thought DeLoss Dodds would allow a program like TCU to come back into the Big 12 fold...and I would have never thought a program like Boise State, at one time a junior college would have soared to the heights they have seen. As evidenced by the NCAA basketball tourney -America likes a Cinderella story and I think if you take that away from the game you lose a LOT...

Our problem, like Jim has pointed out is for a LONG time we haven't invested into this football program either through facilities, hiring or scheduling and rather used the program as a cheap way to market and advertise the school. Thank god for regents like Bobby Ray and C. Dan Smith etc who changed this course over the past decade...

The irony is you still have programs like ULM who aren't funding their sports programs nearly to the level they should but are still able to put together outstanding football teams that upset powerfully funded programs like Arkansas etc... to me that's the irony of what we are trying to do.

I've beaten this horse to death but Tulsa football was a hair away from shutting things down close to a decade ago. Instead they refocused, made a commitment to build a WINNING program and made the investment in top coaches, facilities and turned the damn thing around. Now they are a powerhouse that has beaten Notre Dame and many other powerful programs... it can be done. It just takes leadership and a commitment!

I appreciate the MAJOR strides that UNT has made in terms of athletics. Apogee was just a dream come true... we have a fantastic basketball facilty with recent upgrades... the entire campus has grown and seen huge improvements in facilities dorm access etc... we are doing all of the right things except winning and I do believe that will happen soon.

cdizzle86 · July 19, 2013

The American dream has always been "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

I fear in many ways this dream is evaporating and college football is no different. That being said, I would have NEVER thought DeLoss Dodds would allow a program like TCU to come back into the Big 12 fold...and I would have never thought a program like Boise State, at one time a junior college would have soared to the heights they have seen. As evidenced by the NCAA basketball tourney -America likes a Cinderella story and I think if you take that away from the game you lose a LOT...

Our problem, like Jim has pointed out is for a LONG time we haven't invested into this football program either through facilities, hiring or scheduling and rather used the program as a cheap way to market and advertise the school. Thank god for regents like Bobby Ray and C. Dan Smith etc who changed this course over the past decade...

The irony is you still have programs like ULM who aren't funding their sports programs nearly to the level they should but are still able to put together outstanding football teams that upset powerfully funded programs like Arkansas etc... to me that's the irony of what we are trying to do.

I've beaten this horse to death but Tulsa football was a hair away from shutting things down close to a decade ago. Instead they refocused, made a commitment to build a WINNING program and made the investment in top coaches, facilities and turned the damn thing around. Now they are a powerhouse that has beaten Notre Dame and many other powerful programs... it can be done. It just takes leadership and a commitment!

I appreciate the MAJOR strides that UNT has made in terms of athletics. Apogee was just a dream come true... we have a fantastic basketball facilty with recent upgrades... the entire campus has grown and seen huge improvements in facilities dorm access etc... we are doing all of the right things except winning and I do believe that will happen soon.

100% agree. I believe our university, for the most part, has made the decision to be "all in" regarding athletics. However, that hasn't translated on the field and unfortunately, that's all that matters. A couple of years ago we were all got excited about the new commitment to making our facilities top tier, but I expect great facilities now so I'm not impressed anymore. What good does a new basketball practice facility do if we can't produce wins?....especially with the team we had in place??

I want wins....and I want them now! It's time for the coaches and players to take responsibility and change the tide. Throwing more money at athletics isn't going to fix our problem.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · July 19, 2013

Although it doesn't look good right now, I still want to see how it shakes out.

I think we finally have the resources (as evidenced by the willingness to pay Idaho to come here) to do some moving & shaking. And if it comes down that the two Iowa games are our two "paycheck" games for those years, that's fine. I'd rather it be them than LSU/UT/OU again. I think the sticking point is that we currently have Iowa & Tennessee away in the same season, which we don't need.

This. One money game minimum. And, please, let is be against someone other than the old rotation of OU/UT/LSU. Different road trips, please, for the money games.

untjim1995 · July 19, 2013

This. One money game minimum. And, please, let is be against someone other than the old rotation of OU/UT/LSU. Different road trips, please, for the money games.

Or Alabama/Arkansas/Florida/Georgia either...

I get the Texas game, just because of who they are in this state and it keeps Texans' $$$ in state. I'd even understand--and fully expect--A&M to end up on our schedule in the future, too, for the same reasons.

untjim1995 · July 19, 2013

The American dream has always been "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

I fear in many ways this dream is evaporating and college football is no different. That being said, I would have NEVER thought DeLoss Dodds would allow a program like TCU to come back into the Big 12 fold...and I would have never thought a program like Boise State, at one time a junior college would have soared to the heights they have seen. As evidenced by the NCAA basketball tourney -America likes a Cinderella story and I think if you take that away from the game you lose a LOT...

Our problem, like Jim has pointed out is for a LONG time we haven't invested into this football program either through facilities, hiring or scheduling and rather used the program as a cheap way to market and advertise the school. Thank god for regents like Bobby Ray and C. Dan Smith etc who changed this course over the past decade...

The irony is you still have programs like ULM who aren't funding their sports programs nearly to the level they should but are still able to put together outstanding football teams that upset powerfully funded programs like Arkansas etc... to me that's the irony of what we are trying to do.

I've beaten this horse to death but Tulsa football was a hair away from shutting things down close to a decade ago. Instead they refocused, made a commitment to build a WINNING program and made the investment in top coaches, facilities and turned the damn thing around. Now they are a powerhouse that has beaten Notre Dame and many other powerful programs... it can be done. It just takes leadership and a commitment!

I appreciate the MAJOR strides that UNT has made in terms of athletics. Apogee was just a dream come true... we have a fantastic basketball facilty with recent upgrades... the entire campus has grown and seen huge improvements in facilities dorm access etc... we are doing all of the right things except winning and I do believe that will happen soon.

I think that much of the American dream is lost for many reasons, but the biggest is power, both from private and public greed. College football certainly follows that trend. ESPN and Fox, AQ conferences, large state schools, monied private schools, and a governing body that gets its tax exemption from all governments that are lined with representatives of those AQ schools all contribute to this situation. Sure, people try to blame some fo those entities more than others--just like we do in civil issues in society--but the reality is that they all combine to cause this power grab.

The AQs are kind of like the big banks to me--they get privileges from the government that smaller banks don't get. They get more deposits because they are well-known and have more resources than your community bank. They then get to pick and choose from those below them who they want to buy off--both in personnel and in assets. If the smaller banks grow to become more regionalized, they then get "accepted" into the club, just like Louisville, TCU, or Utah have done to get into the AQ leagues they are in know. That probably will never change.

To me, North Texas is like a small bank that used to be known as a Savings and Loan institution, but went bankrupt in the early 80s. Everyone knows what happened and very few people outside of the banks customers and workers are willing to give them any credence until they show that they are not going to fail again. Being profitable and having happy customer service isn't enough because the rest of the banking world wants to see major accomplishments beyond just marginal profit and a few branches in your home town. Meanwhile, the bank's board seems content with the improvements they have made to be somewhat profitable and to have just shed the label of being a failure after coming back from the ashes. In today's world, those two views don't mesh with each other and cause the small bank to stay where they are at becasue they get no help from the bigger banks or the government, plus they still have stiff competition from the other small and regional banks. In the end, it probably won't end well for that small bank's customers or their workers.

Harry · July 19, 2013

I think that much of the American dream is lost for many reasons, but the biggest is power, both from private and public greed. College football certainly follows that trend. ESPN and Fox, AQ conferences, large state schools, monied private schools, and a governing body that gets its tax exemption from all governments that are lined with representatives of those AQ schools all contribute to this situation. Sure, people try to blame some fo those entities more than others--just like we do in civil issues in society--but the reality is that they all combine to cause this power grab.

The AQs are kind of like the big banks to me--they get privileges from the government that smaller banks don't get. They get more deposits because they are well-known and have more resources than your community bank. They then get to pick and choose from those below them who they want to buy off--both in personnel and in assets. If the smaller banks grow to become more regionalized, they then get "accepted" into the club, just like Louisville, TCU, or Utah have done to get into the AQ leagues they are in know. That probably will never change.

To me, North Texas is like a small bank that used to be known as a Savings and Loan institution, but went bankrupt in the early 80s. Everyone knows what happened and very few people outside of the banks customers and workers are willing to give them any credence until they show that they are not going to fail again. Being profitable and having happy customer service isn't enough because the rest of the banking world wants to see major accomplishments beyond just marginal profit and a few branches in your home town. Meanwhile, the bank's board seems content with the improvements they have made to be somewhat profitable and to have just shed the label of being a failure after coming back from the ashes. In today's world, those two views don't mesh with each other and cause the small bank to stay where they are at becasue they get no help from the bigger banks or the government, plus they still have stiff competition from the other small and regional banks. In the end, it probably won't end well for that small bank's customers or their workers.

Nice analogy. It certainly fits our situation.

I do want to be clear on one thing. As much as we want equality I also respect and want to protect the storied programs who have earned their stripes. No, UTSA or UNT for that matter should not be held in the same high regard as say a Notre Dame or Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan etc primarily because they haven't earned that right. I do not want to dismantle the high place in the NCAA that these programs have elevated themselves to. All I am saying is that I want opportunity. I understand why it would bother a Georgia when a school like Georgia State decides to throw their hat in the ring with minimal investment (scratch in the game) and expect to get paid at the same level or have the same opportunity that Georgia has earned over the last century... I get that and the last thing we would want is the power programs to break away from us because of the fact they feel like they are in a sense funding lessor programs who aren't making significant investments over time. If we were to dismantle the power programs it would remove the Cinderella story that Americans desire so much. I think getting the gang of five BCS access was a HUGE monumental step in the right direction and now hope that they will allow the playoff system to expand so we could possibly get two in the mix.

FirefightnRick · July 19, 2013

Yes, the American dream is lost due to too many rich people.

You can go to any other country with only a $100 to your name, not know the language, work hard, work towards an education, raise a family and watch your son Ted become a senator..... but not here.

....sarcasm....

Sure am glad other podunk programs like Boise, Ark st, ULM and all the rest didnt have that attitude and took advantage of the American dream,....which is a guarantee to have an OPPORTUNITY... NOT A RIGHT,...to achieve success. Then got off their dead ass and did something about their situation..

Rick

meangreanmick · July 19, 2013

Yes, the American dream is lost due to too many rich people.
You can go to any other country with only a $100 to your name, not know the language, work hard, work towards an education, raise a family and watch your son Ted become a senator..... but not here.
....sarcasm....
Sure am glad other podunk programs like Boise, Ark st, ULM and all the rest didnt have that attitude and took advantage of the American dream,....which is a guarantee to have an OPPORTUNITY... NOT A RIGHT,...to achieve success. Then got off their dead ass and did something about their situation..
Rick

Whats up with all the praising of ULM as what we hope to be? What have they done? - they got lucky with one under the radar QB that helped win a few underdog games. Their facilities are crap, they are in a crap market, and I don't see anything about their Athletic Program that I would want to emulate. As soon as their QB is done they will go right back to what they are.

Programs aren't defined by a few wins on the field in a season or two. Texas A&M had a better season on the field last year, but I wouldn't say that overall they have a better program than Texas. Texas is a massive program and of the top athletics programs in the country. Wins and losses in any one year are mostly impacted by how 1 or 2 recruiting classes underachieves or overachieves (or meets expectations).

untjim1995 · July 19, 2013

Yes, the American dream is lost due to too many rich people.
You can go to any other country with only a $100 to your name, not know the language, work hard, work towards an education, raise a family and watch your son Ted become a senator..... but not here.
....sarcasm....
Sure am glad other podunk programs like Boise, Ark st, ULM and all the rest didnt have that attitude and took advantage of the American dream,....which is a guarantee to have an OPPORTUNITY... NOT A RIGHT,...to achieve success. Then got off their dead ass and did something about their situation..
Rick

I hear your sarcasm very clearly--I'm conservative, too, but I am not so blind to the reality that power is corruptible and can hurt others from being the best they can be. It doesn't mean that you can't overcome those hurdles, but power is tough to fight if you don't have the heart and the desire to fight it. Even then, without power of your own ($$$, people, votes, etc..) the hurdles that can be placed ahead of you by unbridled power, government-wide or otherwise, are too much to overcome. You'll get no argument from me ever that North Texas hasn't shown the care, initiative, or the will to even fight for college football power. Basically, after the SWC told us to pound sand at the thought of ever joining their league in the late 70s, we saw our savior, Hayden Fry, leave, and then we made it very easy for our SWC brethren by just giving up for the next 12 years, if not longer. We made our own bed because the powers that be of the time, in Texas, the SWC, and in Denton, decided we weren't worthy of being a solid college football program. Maybe if we had shown some gumption back then, today would be a much better picture of what north texas should be, but we didn't follow that path.

I will say this. Although they are nice programs for non-AQs, Arkansas State and ULM are not success stories. I'm sorry, but very few in the college football world look at either of them and think they are success stories. Both of those schools still take on several $$$ games on the road every year because they have to. That alone means you aren't a success story to most of college football. They think Texas A&M is a success story, that Louisville is a success story. TCU and Utah are looked at as the ultimate success stories because of how they worked to become AQ programs in leagues they could only dream of joining. Arkansas State and ULM do not fit the same definintion because they are SBC schools, who most media and fans in think are just glorified FCS schools, even with their recent wins.

Boise State is a totally different success story--a true outlier--but again, they have advantages that other non-AQs don't share, especially ours. They don't share a market with anyone. Not a pro team, not a college team, nothing. With a decent sized town to claim them as their own in a region that has not other team, they have cultivated that advantage. North Texas has one major advantage--its enrollment--that they refuse to even try and take advantage of. Charging half of the athletic fee that stalwarts such as UTSA and Texas State charge is not taking advantage of your advantage. In that regard, you are right in that we won't get off of our dead-ass.

oldguystudent · July 19, 2013

Oh, I'm sorry, how did I end up in the Eagle's nest? Oh..I see. Shoulda' toined left at Albuquoicque!

DeepGreen · July 19, 2013

All good points. But know this-

McCarney's third year will be the breakout season for North Texas-a winning season and a bowl bid for the good guys. Add to that, an upset.

Finally, Benford will bring us back to a near 20 win season in basketball. This new team has no distractions and will mesh.

Psssssssst. Plummer, are my meds on the way?

FirefightnRick · July 19, 2013

Whats up with all the praising of ULM as what we hope to be? What have they done? - they got lucky with one under the radar QB that helped win a few underdog games. Their facilities are crap, they are in a crap market,.....

Not praising, just giving them their due respect.

A win over Alabama in '07

A one point loss to Arkansas in '08

A win over Arkansas in '12

A 3 point OT loss to Auburn in '12

A 5 point loss to Baylor in '12 in a game they hosted.....in their crappy stadium.

They have out recruited us for players who are right here from under our noses.

At one point of last year 4 of their starting 5 O linemen were from DFW and its surrounding areas.

All with a pathetic $8 Million Athletic budget, about $2.5 of that going towards football.

If I was convinced we were doing all we could I would feel better. But we're not. Those of us who have been paying attention know we aren't putting our best foot forward, that there is little accountability and we aren't turning over every stone to find money and solid coaches. Simply look at the last basketball hire in regards to Danny Kasper never getting contacted for the job as one example, and I can sit here and type all day of countless others.

Rick

Edited July 22, 2013 by FirefightnRick

PlummMeanGreen · July 19, 2013

All good points. But know this-
McCarney's third year will be the breakout season for North Texas-a winning season and a bowl bid for the good guys. Add to that, an upset.
Finally, Benford will bring us back to a near 20 win season in basketball. This new team has no distractions and will mesh.
Psssssssst. Plummer, are my meds on the way?

Spent a little extra at UPS to have them over-nighted to ya', Phil! (BTW, have yall moved yet)?

GMG!

PS: And I dreamed just last night that we, ie, North Texas...

...were hosting the Tennessee Volunteers at Apogee Stadium for heaven's sake!

Addendum: In this dream North Texas beat the Vols so similarly to how we did in 1975 but this time on a kick-off returned for a last minute touchdown by a 5' 6" 190 pound Mean Greener named..............Roebuck Forest! :zoro: (old timers will figure that one out and some of the rest of you may even have to admit that my "dads jokes" are getting a tad better....maybe)?

Edited July 19, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

untjim1995 · July 19, 2013

Not praising, just giving them their due respect.
A win over Alabama in '07
A one point loss to Arkansas in '08
A win over Arkansas in '12
A 3 point OT loss to Auburn in '12
A 5 point loss to Baylor in '12 in a game they hosted.....in their crappy stadium.
They have out recruited us for players who are right here from under our noses.
At one point of last year 4 of their starting 5 O linemen were from DFW and its surrounding areas.
All with a pathetic $8 Million Athletic budget, about $2.5 of that going towards football.
If I was convinced we were doing all we could I would feel better. But we're not. Those of us who have been paying attention know we aren't putting our best foot forward, that there is little accountability and we aren't turning over every stone to find money and solid coaches. Simply look at the last basketball hire in regards to Danny Kasper never getting contacted for the job as one example, and I can sit here and type all day of countless others.
Rick

You know, ULM has done ok with their limited resources, but doesn't that hit at the reality of why non-AQs are stuck? They accomplished all of this and managed to get mudholed in their one bowl game that was down the road from them, and that opponent only played there because the other choice refused to play there due to the fact that ULM was there!! Really, that is about as spare as you can get, even if it isn't ULM's fault. That just doesn't scream success to me.

I give them credit that they have accomplished more than we have, especially since they have no advantages as a program of location or size, but achieving more than UNT isn't exactly setting the bar high, especially if you look at the last 13 years.

Harry · July 19, 2013

I give them credit that they have accomplished more than we have, especially since they have no advantages as a program of location or size, but achieving more than UNT isn't exactly setting the bar high, especially if you look at the last 13 years.

This is where you and I differ Jim -- we've made huge facility improvements over the past 10 years, we have moved to a better conference we are paying more for coaches. I agree with you that the results have not been favorable although our 4-year bowl run was the first of its kind in the modern era and we haven't done too bad under Johnny Jones in basketball... I think where we agree is that it took entirely too long. Had we been investing in these things 20 years ago we would most certainly be in a different place. The reality is that is the past and we should look forward instead of back.

PlummMeanGreen · July 19, 2013

This is where you and I differ Jim -- we've made huge facility improvements over the past 10 years, we have moved to a better conference we are paying more for coaches. I agree with you that the results have not been favorable although our 4-year bowl run was the first of its kind in the modern era and we haven't done too bad under Johnny Jones in basketball... I think where we agree is that it took entirely too long. Had we been investing in these things 20 years ago we would most certainly be in a different place. The reality is that is the past and we should look forward instead of back.

Harry quote: "The reality is that is the past and we should look forward instead of back."

(Something we all need to work on and beginning at this keyboard).

GMG!

greenminer · July 19, 2013

time to win

FirefightnRick · July 20, 2013

So the high bar you want to set is individual wins against mediocre big programs? Or even better, near misses?

We beat Tennessee 40 something years ago! Hurray!

We're North Texas, where we have one non-conference post season win in anything since the Eisenhower administration yet your gonna grade SEC teams as mediocre?

Rick

UNT90 · July 20, 2013

So, you owe someone am apology whose only home schedule coup was bringing in K. St.?

If what you say is true, you should be more upset than ever.

NT91 · July 21, 2013

O of NI

would work.

UNT 90 Grad · July 21, 2013

You know, ULM has done ok with their limited resources, but doesn't that hit at the reality of why non-AQs are stuck? They accomplished all of this and managed to get mudholed in their one bowl game that was down the road from them, and that opponent only played there because the other choice refused to play there due to the fact that ULM was there!! Really, that is about as spare as you can get, even if it isn't ULM's fault. That just doesn't scream success to me.

I give them credit that they have accomplished more than we have, especially since they have no advantages as a program of location or size, but achieving more than UNT isn't exactly setting the bar high, especially if you look at the last 13 years.

The re-air of the ULM / Arkansas game is on ESPNU right now. They ranked it as the #13 best game of 2012.

Graddean · July 21, 2013

The ULM/Arkansas game revealed the problems within the Ark. Program. About all anyone could do last year was to brag they beat an SEC team, but bless them for doing it.