City of Detroit Files For Ch. 9 Bankruptcy

[Censored by Laurie]

It'll be a long comeback, but I actually think Detroit will be back. I mean it'll never be the industrial giant that it was when it basically defeated Nazi Germany (weapons made in Detroit were used not only by us in WWII, but all of our allies), but I do think the city will recover. The seeds of the recovery are already there. Dan Gilbert is remaking downtown with all of his investment. That is opening up neighborhoods slightly outside of the core as people are slowly moving outside of the central portion of the city. A lot of artists are moving to Detroit because it's so damn cheap right now. I have seen with my own eyes in Los Angeles what artists can do for downtrodden areas. People like to make fun of them (myself included sometimes), but they really do clean up crappy places (you should have seen downtown LA ten years ago versus today for instance), and make them "cool" and "hip" to live. That eventually brings in business.

It's gonna take 25-35 years, but yes I do think the city will be back. Remember about that long ago, things were so bad in New York City, imagining the city as a burned out jail was a freaking sci-fi film plot.

Clint Eastwood = Frank Reich?

[oldguystudent]

(you should have seen downtown LA ten years ago versus today for instance)

I lived in LA ten years ago. Are you telling me that they cleaned up and gentrified 7th and San Pedro? I know the developers have been salivating for years over that real estate, but moving 40,000 tent dwellers out has proved problematic. I think I did read that they shut down some of the last SRO-type dive bars that were serving booze barely above standard from mouthwash, and I never thought I'd see that happen.

Man, I miss living in LA. I loved it there. Never a dull moment.

[CMJ]

I lived in LA ten years ago. Are you telling me that they cleaned up and gentrified 7th and San Pedro? I know the developers have been salivating for years over that real estate, but moving 40,000 tent dwellers out has proved problematic. I think I did read that they shut down some of the last SRO-type dive bars that were serving booze barely above standard from mouthwash, and I never thought I'd see that happen.

Man, I miss living in LA. I loved it there. Never a dull moment.

I mean there are still some rougher areas (I am unsure of that exact block), but you should see the Broadway corridor now for instance. Also Figueroa used to really only feel safe at night around Staples Center, now more blocks around it feel that way. Downtown doesn't shut down as soon as the sun goes down like it did when I first moved.

Echo Park, outside of downtown, is now hipster central. It still had a but of a dangerous vibe when I worked on a shoot down there in 2002. Hollywood is night and day different than when I got here in 2001.

Edited July 31, 2013 by CMJ

[Greenrex]

This might be a job for a UNT grad like Peter Weller?

[DeepGreen]

No comment on unions, other than the fact the Teamsters tried to "unionize" our family business with a union "plant" that we unknowingly hired. We had to spend a small fortune (to us, at least) to keep them out of our company. Had the union been successful, we were prepared to padlock the front doors of our company.

Remember this- You have the right to join a union, and you have the right to NOT join a union. Those union dues pay a lot of high union official salaries.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

No comment on unions, other than the fact the Teamsters tried to "unionize" our family business with a union "plant" that we unknowingly hired. We had to spend a small fortune (to us, at least) to keep them out of our company. Had the union been successful, we were prepared to padlock the front doors of our company.

Remember this- You have the right to join a union, and you have the right to NOT join a union. Those union dues pay a lot of high union official salaries.

.

-- True in Texas ...but not every state ... in some places employees are required to join. [ we are a "right to work state" ]. Unions once served a great purpose because of the terrible conditions people worked under.. especially mines. Today they have outlived most of that need. The federal government now regulates safety so much that they serve little useful purpose anymore.

Edited July 31, 2013 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTFan23]

.

-- True in Texas ...but not every state ... in some places employees are required to join. [ we are a "right to work state" ]. Unions once served a great purpose because of the terrible conditions people worked under.. especially mines. Today they have outlived most of that need. The federal government now regulates safety so much that they serve little useful purpose anymore.

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 outlawed closed shops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop#United_States

Edited August 1, 2013 by UNTFan23

[UNT90]

We all know the story of Jimmy Hoffa and Teamsters and corruption. The "tyranny of the union" is a thing of the past and there is very little corruption. Remember the survival of the union and members depends on the survival of the company. Unions want a fair price for their profession. In negotiations, the two sides can't be too far apart or they will never strike a deal. The union is not out to bankrupt the company. They want to get a fair wage for their members, and protection for the more senior members if it comes time for layoffs.

Right on, comrade!! ;-)

[LongJim]

I'll just say this--the worst-run, most nightmarish building projects I ever worked on involved trades and locals in Dearborn and Warren MI, and St. Louis.

Most corrupt, inept, deliberately obstructing bunch of crooks I ever had the pleasure of working with. Had to learn to bribe them, which is what they wanted in the first place. Great organized racket.

Second worst were the waste management companies in Florida. I'll leave it at that. Anyone who knows that industry on the east coast knows what I'm talking about.

[gksmith]

Medical costs - that is all part of what the company and union negotiate. Pay a little more for medical but get a slightly higher wage or the "credit" from the company to help cover that. Pay less for medical but get lower wage to help compensate. These are ways that contracts get negotiated. Same with paid time off. Same with raises. Same with everything.

Hostess – I also seem to remember that management got a huge raise (somewhere along the lines of 200%) and refused to negotiate a decent wage for the workers – professionals I might add. The company is failing and you give yourself a huge raise? I find it very hard for a CEO getting a multi-million dollar “bonus” when the company is hundreds of millions of dollars in the red. There are some good CEOs. Several years ago the CEO of American Airlines refused to take a salary until AA made a profit. Others have done the same but very few.

Wildcat strikes – unions don’t do that anymore because it is against the contract. Workers go on a Wildcat strike, the contract is voided, and there is no longer a union. The workers and the company suffer. Anyone who thinks a “strike” is the first line of action knows nothing about unions, companies or negotiations. A strike is the last thing anyone wants and is a last resort, not a first resort. It is much more common for union workers to continue working after the contract expires while negotiations continue. Companies and unions start preparing for the next contract just seconds after the ink dries on the current one.

Not all industries are unionized and don’t need to be. The industries that need unions are blue collar, do not require higher education, and have difficult relocation options. Coal miners, airline workers, steel workers are good examples. You don’t need a college degree to do the job. You can walk straight from high school graduation into the coal mine or steel mill. Those are also jobs where if you leave you can’t go across the street to another company. It means selling your house and moving to another city. We are fortunate in Dallas that there are two major airlines headquartered here. But if you work for Delta (Atlanta) or United (Chicago) or Northwest (Minneapolis) and leave a job where you have to work at the headquarters, you are moving to another city. And while you do have to have special certifications for many jobs that are union with the airlines, you can walk immediately from high school graduation to the workforce.

[FirefightnRick]

Medical costs - that is all part of what the company and union negotiate. Pay a little more for medical but get a slightly higher wage or the "credit" from the company to help cover that. Pay less for medical but get lower wage to help compensate. These are ways that contracts get negotiated. Same with paid time off. Same with raises. Same with everything.

Hostess I also seem to remember that management got a huge raise (somewhere along the lines of 200%) and refused to negotiate a decent wage for the workers professionals I might add. The company is failing and you give yourself a huge raise? I find it very hard for a CEO getting a multi-million dollar bonus when the company is hundreds of millions of dollars in the red. There are some good CEOs. Several years ago the CEO of American Airlines refused to take a salary until AA made a profit. Others have done the same but very few.

Wildcat strikes unions dont do that anymore because it is against the contract. Workers go on a Wildcat strike, the contract is voided, and there is no longer a union. The workers and the company suffer. Anyone who thinks a strike is the first line of action knows nothing about unions, companies or negotiations. A strike is the last thing anyone wants and is a last resort, not a first resort. It is much more common for union workers to continue working after the contract expires while negotiations continue. Companies and unions start preparing for the next contract just seconds after the ink dries on the current one.

Not all industries are unionized and dont need to be. The industries that need unions are blue collar, do not require higher education, and have difficult relocation options. Coal miners, airline workers, steel workers are good examples. You dont need a college degree to do the job. You can walk straight from high school graduation into the coal mine or steel mill. Those are also jobs where if you leave you cant go across the street to another company. It means selling your house and moving to another city. We are fortunate in Dallas that there are two major airlines headquartered here. But if you work for Delta (Atlanta) or United (Chicago) or Northwest (Minneapolis) and leave a job where you have to work at the headquarters, you are moving to another city. And while you do have to have special certifications for many jobs that are union with the airlines, you can walk immediately from high school graduation to the workforce.

True, but it's easy to understand why a non union person might think its the first thing since that is the big mess it turns into and the media starts reporting on.

Good post.

Rick

[gksmith]

True, but it's easy to understand why a non union person might think its the first thing since that is the big mess it turns into and the media starts reporting on.

Good post.

Rick

It's what gets reported. No one cares when the two sides are in negotiations. It only becomes news when the contract is not signed and it is a week before the contract ends. That and "informational picketing."